Reality Can't Be Infinitely Infinite

[NOTintoxicated]

I understand that reality can be and IS infinite. There's not much to take issue with there. But what doesn't make sense is when Leo describes reality as infinitely infinite, as in, infinite in every conceivable capacity, not just linearly infinite (like a never ending set of numbers), but infinite to such extent that there is not a single conceptual manifestation of infinity that is left out of reality. If reality is infinitely infinite, then there should be incarnations of consciousness forever trapped in their own infinite life form. How can reality include all sets of infinity? Some of these sets would just be a consciousness trapped on a black screen of semi-awareness for all eternity, which would inadvertently preclude any other incarnation from manifesting. Yet, here I am, in a finite life form with a biological lifespan that is always approaching it's foreseeable end.

Leo talks about impermanence, or the concept of nothing being permanent. If nothing can be permanent, this precludes the aforementioned conception of a never ending instance of localized consciousness. So reality is not infinitely infinite? I am not claiming to know for certain, I'm only describing what seems to make the most sense. Does anybody have a more informed perspective on this matter?

[Leo Gura]

47 minutes ago, NOTintoxicated said:

Some of these sets would just be a consciousness trapped on a black screen of semi-awareness for all eternity, which would inadvertently preclude any other incarnation from manifesting. Yet, here I am, in a finite life form with a biological lifespan that is always approaching it's foreseeable end.

You are using infinite consciousness to imagine all that.

It can be infinitely infinite or infinitely finite. No limits. However it wants it can be. If it wants to be black screen it can. But maybe it doesn't want to. Just because something can happen doesn't mean it must.

[GreenWoods]

35 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 Just because something can happen doesn't mean it must.

@Leo Gura It doesn't? Not even within infinite time?

[NOTintoxicated]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

You are using infinite consciousness to imagine all that.

It can be infinitely infinite or infinitely finite. No limits. However it wants it can be. If it wants to be black screen it can. But maybe it doesn't want to. Just because something can happen doesn't mean it must.

Well first of all, I don't understand how something can be infinitely finite, as if such an object is so finite that it's infinite. Are you referring to the possibility of zooming into a seemingly finite object forever? I can give credence to that, but try to see where my confusion comes from. The way I'm imagining reality, is that there is an infinite set of finitudes. The finitudes allow for the "next" instance of conscious incarnation to eventually occur and be experienced, but if one of those finitudes were infinite, then the next "dream in reality" can never take place, because the previous one is preventing anything else from manifesting because it never ends.

I suppose my conceptual approach may be incompatible with absolute infinity, because for sake of simplicity I am imagining reality as a continuity of singular conscious incarnations occurring one after the next, linearly. Is it possible to clear this up any further?

Edited February 10, 2021 by NOTintoxicated

[Twega]

@NOTintoxicated THIS. I was pondering about the same issue. If reality is infinitely infinite, then does that mean that there are forms that are actually permanent?

[Leo Gura]

54 minutes ago, NOTintoxicated said:

Well first of all, I don't understand how something can be infinitely finite

Take a look at how numbers work. Numbers are infinitely finite. Each number is finite yet there are infinitely many of them, and you can sub-divide each finite number an infinite number of times more, and each of those you can also sub-divide infinite more times, ad infinitum.

Infinity is a highly paradoxical thing. Contradiction is not a bug, it's a feature. If thinking about infinity breaks your mind, that's not a mistake, that's the nature of infinity!

Infinity creates a lot of paradox and breaks all finite systems, which is why scientists tend to avoid it and sweep it under the rug. When a physicist encounters an infinity in his calculations/equations he considers it a mistake and looks for a way to hide it. But of course the only mistake is him thinking it was a mistake and trying to hide it.

[Carl-Richard]

Whatever you can think about, infinity contains all that.

If you start to get unsure about infinity, try to imagine the edge of the universe. What is outside of that edge? Nothing? What is nothing but an infinite nothingness? What is infinite nothingness but infinite potential? What is infinite potential but infinite actuality? 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[NOTintoxicated]

@Twega Yeah, it's a lot.. There's like 20 issues I have with nondual conceptuality, too much to go over at once. I'll post new threads for each of my logical grievances when I get the time.

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Contradiction is not a bug, it's a feature. If thinking about infinity breaks your mind, that's not a mistake, that's the nature of infinity!

But can it be explained how reality supposedly includes 'EVERYTHING'? Because everything would include a reality that prevents other realities from manifesting.

I don't get how there be these colossal "contradictions" regarding the sequential nature of conscious incarnations. If everything exists, and that the conscious source, or "God", will experience everything, (which seems to contradict @Jirh's idea that the 'infinitely infinite' is just conceptual potential, as opposed to 'actualized infinity' which is the manifested reality) how can there be any experience that follows an incarnation of infinite lifespan. If my current lifespan were infinite, wouldn't that mean that my "impermanence" has been robbed from me? I would be stuck forever in this incarnation.

Do I just need to try 5meo? I really want to understand at a deeper level, however I feel like the messages I've been receiving from my psychedelic trips have been pushing me to get my life in order before doing anything too hardcore. It's been 7 months since I've tripped, and it was a paradigm shattering experience, borderline nightmarish.. Should I try 5meo regardless?

11 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Whatever you can think about, infinity contains all that.

If you start to get unsure about infinity, try to imagine the edge of the universe. What is outside of that edge? Nothing? What is nothing but an infinite nothingness? What is infinite nothingness but infinite potential? 

Unfortunately I think answers like what you've submitted are too deferential to conceptual hearsay. There are assertions being made, but aren't substantiated with any logical backing. If infinity is reality, and reality includes anything I can think about, it would include a reality that precludes my current existence from manifesting by means of the initial incarnation never ending.

[Carl-Richard]

17 minutes ago, NOTintoxicated said:

Unfortunately I think answers like what you've submitted are too deferential to conceptual hearsay. There are assertions being made, but aren't substantiated with any logical backing. If infinity is reality, and reality includes anything I can think about, it would include a reality that precludes my current existence from manifesting by means of the initial incarnation never ending.

These are thoughts, yes? How does that contradict the first statement?

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, NOTintoxicated said:

But can it be explained how reality supposedly includes 'EVERYTHING'? Because everything would include a reality that prevents other realities from manifesting.

The moment of awakening is the explanation. Verbal explanations will not work here.

EVERYTHING is EVERYTHING. There's nothing to explain.

Quote

I don't get how there be these colossal "contradictions" regarding the sequential nature of conscious incarnations. If everything exists, and that the conscious source, or "God", will experience everything, (which seems to contradict @Jirh's idea that the 'infinitely infinite' is just conceptual potential, as opposed to 'actualized infinity' which is the manifested reality) how can there be any experience that follows an incarnation of infinite lifespan. If my current lifespan were infinite, wouldn't that mean that my "impermanence" has been robbed from me? I would be stuck forever in this incarnation.

You are imagining all those incarnations NOW. Ultimately there is nothing but NOW. You are fantasizing about all sorts of future scenarios, but the entire future is imaginary.

Stick to the NOW. As soon as your mind wanders into hypothetical spiritual musings you're lost in endless monkey mind.

Quote

Do I just need to try 5meo? I really want to understand at a deeper level, however I feel like the messages I've been receiving from my psychedelic trips have been pushing me to get my life in order before doing anything too hardcore. It's been 7 months since I've tripped, and it was a paradigm shattering experience, borderline nightmarish.. Should I try 5meo regardless?

That's on you.

But if you want to understand EVERYTHING, it would be a good way to do it, rather than this pointless mental masturbation you're currently doing here.

But if you find tripping nightmarish then maybe you're not ready to know EVERYTHING.

See, you ask to know EVERYTHING, but then you recoil in horror and run away. So God himself cannot please you.

[Nahm]

@NOTintoxicated

The more you think, know or say about infinity, the more infinity is veiling itself from itself. Experiencing thoughts about what legos are, missing thoughts are ‘made of’ legos. Taking in what other people say about infinity and considering it (taking it to be more than a pointing), doubles the veil. 

Only emptying your “cup” will do, and then infinity is blatant & obvious, never coming or going, never changing. Intoxicating, intoxicated. Unthinkable.

“Colder...warmer!...colder...colder....getting warmer...”

                                                                         - Temperature 

[vibv]

@NOTintoxicated The problem is that you are trying to understand infinity with logic. It‘s impossible because it is translogical.

[BipolarGrowth]

A fixed, permanent form goes against infinity. Think of consciousness as clay. If the clay were to stay in the same transfiguration forever, it would be finite. What makes the clay infinite is the ability for it to change. Just think of this, you’ve never experienced two moments where consciousness was exactly the same. There’s impermanence staring you right in the face. There’s infinity staring you right in the face. Infinity doesn’t necessarily mean everything will happen imo. It more means there is no limit to what can happen. People don’t realize that the uniqueness of each moment is evidence for infinity sitting right in their lap. 

[GreenWoods]

1 hour ago, BipolarGrowth said:

. Infinity doesn’t necessarily mean everything will happen imo. It more means there is no limit to what can happen. 

You guys are saying that Infinity means there is the potential for everything to happen. And that this doesn't mean all of it will actually happen. Not all potential will turn into creation.

 

But what is the difference between potential and creation? I propose that potential and creation is the same, in the exact same way that nothing and something is the same!

Edited February 11, 2021 by GreenWoods

[BipolarGrowth]

6 minutes ago, GreenWoods said:

You guys are saying that Infinity means there is the potential for everything to happen. And that this doesn't mean all of it will actually happen. Not all potential will turn into creation.

 

But what is the difference between potential and creation? I propose that potential and creation is the same, in the exact same way that nothing and something is the same!

The answer to this question is literally right in front of your face. Potential = Literally Anything. Creation = Only what you’re experiencing right now. If potential and creation were the same, you would experience all potentialities as creation (your direct experience) right now. This is also impossible because creation can have an aspect of time. 

[Carl-Richard]

18 minutes ago, GreenWoods said:

You guys are saying that Infinity means there is the potential for everything to happen. And that this doesn't mean all of it will actually happen. Not all potential will turn into creation.

 

But what is the difference between potential and creation? I propose that potential and creation is the same, in the exact same way that nothing and something is the same!

How can it be infinite if it doesn't contain all of it?

[Gesundheit]

19 minutes ago, GreenWoods said:

You guys are saying that Infinity means there is the potential for everything to happen. And that this doesn't mean all of it will actually happen. Not all potential will turn into creation.

 

But what is the difference between potential and creation? I propose that potential and creation is the same, in the exact same way that nothing and something is the same!

Potential is a thought, it occurs inside the actualized creation.

[GreenWoods]

12 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

The answer to this question is literally right in front of your face. Potential = Literally Anything. Creation = Only what you’re experiencing right now. If potential and creation were the same, you would experience all potentialities as creation (your direct experience) right now. This is also impossible because creation can have an aspect of time. 

Of course, ultimately, only what you experience right now is creation. And it is all of creation. Nothing else happened before and nothing else will happen in the future. 

But I was talking about it from the relative perspective. And you guys were too. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by GreenWoods

[BipolarGrowth]

2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

How can it be infinite if it doesn't contain all of it?

You can rather easily understand mathematical infinity. 0. 1. 2. etc. moving on forever. Consciousness is the same thing. Think of this present moment and all you experience now including imaginative thoughts and everything else. This moment is basically like one of those numbers. It’s one possibility out of an infinite number of possibilities. Due to the impermanent nature of reality, consciousness is constantly changing. It is never the same. This means the freeze frame picture of consciousness in one moment will always be a slightly or even vastly different freeze frame picture of consciousness the next moment. None of these two are the exact same. Because of this you can think of consciousness now as 5. In a second, it might be -467.823. These numbers are arbitrary. The point is consciousness MUST change as far as what anyone can ever verify as far as we know. This creates the necessity of infinity. What the moment contains is in one sense finite as it is fixed, but it can be TOTALLY different in many ways no human mind will ever be able to fully imagine. This makes the process itself infinite. On another level, even this moment which appears finite can be dissected in an infinite number of ways which makes it infinite in a certain sense. 

[GreenWoods]

15 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

How can it be infinite if it doesn't contain all of it?

Exactly.

 

13 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Potential is a thought, it occurs inside the actualized creation.

As I just mentioned, I was talking about it from the relative perspective.

In previous posts, people basically said "some of infinite potential will turn into creation". This is from a relative perspective, because with "some" they mean more than what is happening in direct experience right now. So your argument can be applied to all of what they said. 

 

Ultimate perspective: Solipsism

relative perspective: All of Infinity is turned into creation. potential = creation.