Scientific evidence for psychic powers

[Carl-Richard]

A big reason why many people doubt the existence of psychic powers is due to the fact that you can earn one million dollars if you're able to demonstrate it under a set of experimental conditions (James Randi's challenge) and so far nobody has been able to complete it. Is this really a good reason to say that psychic powers don't exist? Now, what I'm going to claim is that you don't have to go outside the paradigm of conventional scientific methodology in order to understand why this doesn't necessarily have to be the case.

When it comes to observing behavior in a scientific context, there is a distinction between observing a phenomena in its organic environment and observing it in an experimental situation. This is a huge methodological issue in fields like social psychology. In the experimental approach, you create an artificial environment where you can isolate different causal factors, but you can never be sure if you've demonstrated a causal relationship outside of that artificial environment. This is especially true when you're dealing with complex things like mental phenomenas and social dynamics.

There are many reasons to believe that the functioning of subtle behaviors like psychic powers are highly sensitive to specific conditions, both in the external environment and within the psychic's own mind. It's a well-established fact that once you put a person in an experimental setting, you're impacting the normal functioning of that person. Therefore, the inverse of the statement in the previous paragraph is also true: just because you can't demonstrate a causal relationship in an experimental environment does not mean it cannot exist outside of that environment.

If you're still in doubt, you can also venture a bit outside the realm of conventional thought and more into the spiritual realm (this is also just based on my opinion). I think that psychic powers work similarily to how more normal intuitional insights seem to work, in the sense that from the perspective of the person having them, it doesn't feel like "you" created the intuition, but rather that it simply "came to you". It's like this piece of information you were given is not really just about you specifically, but that it's a part of something greater than yourself. You can also describe this as a plan, a natural unfolding, the creative evolutionary impulse of the universe, or God. From this perspective, trying to prove the existence of psychic powers in an experiment for you to win a million dollars seems rather silly. Why should the universe care about you doing that? In what way is that a part of the plan? 

I also think that once your intention is to further your own survival through these lower motivational forces (recognition, fame, greed), this naturally closes you off to these higher intuitional domains. When you're operating from these lower aspects, you're messing with your connection to the greater flow of the universe. Just imagine the difference between a mind that is at ease with itself and a mind that is fuelled by egoic desire. These more subtle aspects aren't allowed to bubble up if your mind is constantly filled with all this noise from impulsive thoughts, desires and fears.

Let me know what you think. I would appreciate if you could primarily talk about your personal experiences rather than some belief you have. Have you ever experienced psychic powers or any subtle intuitional experiences? Please share

Edited February 11, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Heart of Space]

Psychic powers are very real and they don't have to be subtle either.  

I have a spiritual guru that does his work almost exclusively through this way.

You'd be shocked at what is possible.  It's become a normal part of my life, but I'm still shocked all the time at what's possible.  

Feel free to ask any specific questions.  I have a ton of very real experience with this.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Heart of Space

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, Heart of Space said:

Psychic powers are very real and they don't have to be subtle either.   

Yeah. I was using the word subtle in comparison to the more gross mental phenomena that everyday people experience. I personally believe that many people have varying levels of access to these levels of existence but that they're just generally unaware of it.

[Leo Gura]

The problem goes way deeper than that. The problem is in how your mind defines "evidence" and "proof". These are not simple notions, these notions are relative to one's metaphysical and epistemic paradigm.

The problem is that a materialistic paradigm does not have a robust and subtle enough notion of "evidence" and "proof" to accomodate paranormal phenomena, therefore it is blind to them and says they can't exist.

Color can't exist for one who super-glued his eyelids shut.

[Carl-Richard]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The problem goes way deeper than that. The problem is in how your mind defines "evidence" and "proof". These are not simple notions, these notions are relative to one's metaphysical and epistemic paradigm.

The problem is that a materialistic paradigm does not have a robust and subtle enough notion of "evidence" and "proof" to accomodate paranormal phenomena, therefore it is blind to them and says they can't exist.

Color can't exist for one who super-glued his eyelids shut.

Yup which is why when Rupert Sheldrake actually tries to do research on these things that he gets shut down immediately because he is a proponent of non-materialistic "woo-woo" theories 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Hello from Russia]

Why would any good mage expose himself in such a dumb way for just million dollars? 

[Preety_India]

 

I have psychic powers. 

 

[Heart of Space]

12 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

 

I have psychic powers. 

 

What form do they take out of curiosity?

[Preety_India]

@Heart of Space

I tend to get vibes from my environment. Like I usually know beforehand if something bad is going to happen. Then that time I don't go out. Later I find out that some tragic event happened and I ended up avoiding it because of my intuition. Also I get Premonitions about my family members. 

[cetus]

 'Psychic powers' is an alignment of sorts. Hard to explain but when it does happen there no mistake.

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, Preety_India said:

I have psychic powers. 

Please do tell more .

I remember when I was living with my mom, there was many times when she was coming home from work where I could just feel that she was about to come home, and everytime when I felt it, she would come through the door within 5 minutes.

The day my old boss died (he drowned), I was asleep and I had one of those nightmares where I woke up while gasping (I was being chased by some ominous, female spirit). I usually never have nightmares and I didn't know he had died before the day after.

Some years ago, my brother's friend died (he died in his sleep), and the morning after, I had this weird feeling that something was not right. I distinctly labelled it as there being a weird energy in the air (he lived around our neighbourhood). This was before my brother told me about it.

One time at a party, one girl suddenly reported that she couldn't find her phone. We spent like 30 minutes looking for it in this tiny apartment with no luck. It was weird because there was only like 10-15 people there who all knew eachother, and she had never left the property that night, and the house was kinda secluded from the town. I remember saying out loud "there must have been some kind of anomaly, the phone must be somewhere far outside of this place, not here". It turns out she had dropped her phone outside while going for a smoke and some kids had picked it up and ran away with it (we verified this the day after).

This one is kinda weird and maybe unrelated:

Back in the beginning of high school, I was unsure whether to pursue the subjects required for engineering or if I should just "follow my interest". I thought "ah maybe I should take biology and psychology instead of chemistry and physics". Don't get me wrong, I was very interested in all of these things (the choice was really about what I wanted to pursue as a career). I ended up taking the latter (physics and chemistry).

Now 8 years later, it turns out that I never wanted to become an engineer, and somehow I actually ended up taking a year of biology in university, and now I'm doing psychology haha. The way I'm interpreting this is that my heart (or intuition or whatever) was showing me who I really am and where I was actually going to end up, and that me listening to my mind was just a detour (but at the same time that's not completely true, because my chem/phys knowledge made me who I am today and helped me tremendously).

Edited February 10, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Applegarden]

Otherwise, how aren't they dead.

The USSR used to pour mercury in people's shoes to poison them over time.

YES, and the mercury is not liquid, how about that!

Edited February 10, 2021 by Applegarden

[John Doe]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The problem is that a materialistic paradigm does not have a robust and subtle enough notion of "evidence" and "proof" to accomodate paranormal phenomena, therefore it is blind to them and says they can't exist.

Still not clear on this. If someone claims that they can levitate, isn't the notion of 'evidence' is very simple? That I (or other third-party auditors) can literally see the person levitate, that's it. If the guy can float in the air, cool, film it, have 100 scientists observe real-time and upload it to YouTube or something, and rake in the million dollars like Carl mentioned. I'm not a materialist btw, I'm just confused as to why this hasn't happened yet.

[Carl-Richard]

5 minutes ago, John Doe said:

Still not clear on this. If someone claims that they can levitate, isn't the notion of 'evidence' is very simple? That I (or other third-party auditors) can literally see the person levitate, that's it. If the guy can float in the air, cool, film it, have 100 scientists observe real-time and upload it to YouTube or something, and rake in the million dollars like Carl mentioned. I'm not a materialist btw, I'm just confused as to why this hasn't happened yet.

My point was about why they won't rake in the million dollars . Anyways, levitation may be a little different (or not). I was mainly talking about more subtle things like seeing the future etc..

[Haumea2018]

5 hours ago, Hello from Russia said:

Why would any good mage expose himself in such a dumb way for just million dollars? 

People like James Randi think that it is such an enticement, that there is no possible way anyone could not be tempted by it.  In other words, they project their own values (ego, fame and wealth) as normative.

Tells you more about them than the objects of their debunking efforts.

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, John Doe said:

Still not clear on this. If someone claims that they can levitate, isn't the notion of 'evidence' is very simple? That I (or other third-party auditors) can literally see the person levitate, that's it. If the guy can float in the air, cool, film it, have 100 scientists observe real-time and upload it to YouTube or something, and rake in the million dollars like Carl mentioned. I'm not a materialist btw, I'm just confused as to why this hasn't happened yet.

Oh, that's very easy to answer.

If someone posted a video of actual, genuine levitation on YT, your mind would simply never believe it to be real. You would call it a hoax.

Your mind will not accept that which runs counter to its deepest metaphysics.

You can't get 100 scientists to observe it in real time because no serious scientist would believe it enough to even buy a plane ticket to see it for himself. And even if they did, you would just dismiss those scientists are deluded kooks -- not real scientists, because only a kook would buy a plane ticket to see levitation -- obviously.

So how can you prove something which you know isn't real?

You see? You have shut your eyes and complain that you cannot see and yet you ask us to help you. No one can help you in this case until your realize you are actively shutting your eyes on purpose.

[TheAlchemist]

Also if somebody could levitate, they might be conscious enough to not want to show it to less conscious people. Seeing someone levitate with our own eyes and if we managed to accept it as real beyond any doubt could shatter our paradigm so radically that most humans would go psychotic and society would totally collapse.

I can already feel my reality getting unstable when I do illusory form practice, and taking dmt puts me at the limit of what I can handle for now. I would be 100% convinced I'm in a dream if I saw some dude levitating in the sky and I would probably become insane or something for a while before I could fully accept it. 

[Aaron p]

One of the only real clear abilities I've been able to directly verify comes from extreme sensitivity to simple energy. Not so much prophecy but what Christian mystics call "discernment of spirits" (where you can discern the reality of a person or situation). And "word of knowledge/wisdom" where you can just choose to know shit. For me these abilities are extremely useful (being able to discern the spirit of Leo's work for example). You basically just know things very very clearly for some reason. 

For me the abilities are very limited aswell. Like I need to focus. honestly it feels like it's not some weord "spiritual power". It's just energy I think.

 

Now when it comes to healing, its strange

...my dad was healed of arthritis with no physical explanation at all and he was a cripple...after his arthritis was...removed...he went back to martial-arts and got his black belt. But healing isint consistent. There's no real clear pattern or consistency.

Most of *my* observation strongly suggests that most of the spiritual powers people claim to have...just aren't real. However to say "nothing completely supernatural has ever happened" is an extremelyyyyy broad statement. I wonder if anything (absolutely blatantly supernaturally impossible) has even happened once for example(in all of existence I mean), like manifesting a rock Infront of your face... And *if* it happened once that means it's possible. But I haven't seen it in all my searching.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Aaron p

[Leo Gura]

47 minutes ago, TheAlchemist said:

Also if somebody could levitate, they might be conscious enough to not want to show it to less conscious people. Seeing someone levitate with our own eyes and if we managed to accept it as real beyond any doubt could shatter our paradigm so radically that most humans would go psychotic and society would totally collapse.

No. People would simply never accept it so why bother trying to convince them?

If you showed people levitation, half of them would think you're a fraud/cult leader, half would think you're Satan and want to kill you, and half would start to worship you like blind monkeys.

[Mason Riggle]

"Those who believe in telekinesis, raise my hand." - Kurt Vonnegut

Edited February 10, 2021 by Mason Riggle