Why is it possible to make distinctions?

[4201]

There can't be nothing without things nor things without nothing and I am the one making the distinction between thing and nothing.

But why am I able to distinguish? Why isn't it just all really nothing? Not "nothing" as in not a thing, but nothing as no things and no counter-things (no nothing). Just pure emptiness.

If you show me a page half black and half white and tell me that the distinction between the 2 is something I'm doing OK, but then if you showed me a full black page it's not like I would have even been able to distinguish between the 2.

Why is there possibility for duality?

[commie]

The obvious explanation is that no thing isn't featureless. The reason the features aren't thing is that they're more like random noise. The things you conceive are in contrast much fewer and less subtle than the features.

[4201]

2 minutes ago, commie said:

The obvious explanation is that no thing isn't featureless. The reason the features aren't thing is that they're more like random noise. The things you conceive are in contrast much fewer and less subtle than the features.

Why is there random noise instead of no noise?

[commie]

It's not actually random noise. And the reason why is up to you really (else it would be something like the God of Abraham rather than no thing).

[4201]

Whatever it is, there's still potential for it to be interpreted into life. Yet if it was all "turned off" or black then there would be no potential for interpretation.

In a way, isn't that a thing that there is?

Edited February 10, 2021 by 4201

[commie]

Sure, you can make anything into a thing. But that thing you've made is no more than the other things.

[4201]

Why is it possible to make things into things? Isn't there some thing that is doing that? If there was truly nothing there would be no one to turn nothing into things.

Edited February 10, 2021 by 4201

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, 4201 said:

Why isn't it just all really nothing? Not "nothing" as in not a thing, but nothing as no things and no counter-things (no nothing). Just pure emptiness.

It is all nothing, it is all emptiness.

You are making the mistake of still distinguishing and being biased. You think nothing is somehow different and distinct from something. Which is a duality.

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Why is there possibility for duality?

Because duality is a part of nonduality.

There is possibility for EVERYTHING because reality is unlimited. So what would stop it?

A more conventional explanation would sound like this: nothing cannot stop something from appearing, since to stop a thing requires something to exist. Hence something must come into existence because nothing prevents it.

But even this explanation is not correct because it still assumes a duality between nothing and something. As if something came out of nothing. NO! Something did not come out of nothing. Something has always been nothing. The only full explanation is that something = nothing.

If you don't get it, it's because you haven't awoken to the fact that everything you see and hear is nothing. And no amount of logicking this will do it.

You cannot substitute for lack of awakening by thinking some more.

[commie]

13 minutes ago, 4201 said:

Why is it possible to make things into things? Isn't there some thing that is doing that? If there was truly nothing there would be no one to turn nothing into things.

Now your first question is a bit tricky in that it has many valid answers. I'm not sure what you're asking exactly if you're not restating an earlier question but try one of these: a) because otherwise there would be no things b) why not?

Your second is easier: if you can make anything into a thing, you can also make any happening into a doing, complete with its doer. That doesn't make you a thing.

And finally there is no one to turn no thing into things. These are all things.

[Leo Gura]

42 minutes ago, 4201 said:

Why is it possible to make things into things?

Precisely because there is no thing that would stop it.

Stopping a thing requires another thing. But if there are no things, then there are no obstacles either.

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Isn't there some thing that is doing that?

No. Nothing is doing that.

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If there was truly nothing there would be no one to turn nothing into things.

There would also be nothing to stop nothing from creating something.

All things are just imaginations of consciousness. You're still stuck in materialism.

You are not appreciating the relativity of things. Stop assuming that things exist as objective facts. They don't. They only exist if your consciousness holds them.

Even the notion of a "thing" or an object is merely something you dreamed up. If you stop dreaming of objects there will be no objects. Reality is not made out of objects nor is reality as a whole an object itself.

[VeganAwake]

You can't get outside of Everything to point at it.

&

The individual within the body that experiences "I am here" and everything else is out there, is an ILLUSION ❤

Duality is a word that points to something that never actually occurred... 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by VeganAwake

[4201]

@Leo Gura I appreciate your answers.

When you say 

On 09/02/2021 at 8:26 PM, Leo Gura said:

everything you see and hear is nothing

Let's make an analogy. Let's say I spend years looking at clouds non stop. For fun I "see" or interpret things out of the clouds, like here's a lion, here's a cat, etc.

What you are saying amounts to saying "all those things are just clouds!" which makes total sense. I'm just so used to my stories in the clouds that I forgot I'm looking at clouds.

My problem, and my question, is how can one interpret stuff without the clouds? Can you start interpreting and seeing shapes out of a totally blank sheet?

When you say "you can't stop something from coming out of nothing", I see how this statement is not totally correct. I would personally prefer "interpretation is always possible". There's infinitely many ways to look at the clouds and there's infinitely many ways to interpret nothingness into life.  

Many things are still unclear, but thank you for the answers.

 

 

[Mason Riggle]

It was useful for me to understand that 'nothing' and 'everything' are the same thing.  Nothing (which is form-less, shape-less, size-less, etc. quality-less, limit-less) has 'no limits'.. in dualistic terms 'nothing' is the space in which 'Everything' is possible. 

Nothing/Everything doesn't seem like 'something' (because nothing/everything is just that.. nothing and everything.. how could that ever seem like a finite 'something'?)

And so.. depending on the language (map) you want to use to describe reality (the territory)..  'Somethingness' is 'created' (realized, made real, seemed like something) through 'imagined' (pretended, illusioned, dreamed) duality (limits, qualities, distinctions, etc.). 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Mason Riggle

[Leo Gura]

@4201 Every experience you've had, every object you've seen, is Nothing.

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, 4201 said:

how can one interpret stuff without the clouds?

One, interpretation & stuff, are the clouds. 

You could be contemplating ‘why is it not possible to make distinctions?’ 

[mandyjw]

For creation. If you want to make a collage you first have to cut out shapes and then glue them together to create something new. The true purpose of separation is for creation with an inherent, never lost sense of wholeness. Forget the intention and the lose the creative spark and you're just making a mess of things. 

[snowyowl]

I'm starting to read The Mind Illuminated, and one passage is discussing types of awareness. He simplifies it into two basic types, attention and peripheral awareness. 

My thoughts: when we cultivate peripheral awareness entirely and let go of attention, that is nondual awareness, oneness without distinction. Looking at something, listening to a sound, paying attention to a particular 'thing' is what creates distinction, duality, a boundary between an object and its environment. 

The good thing about this approach is we can observe it actually happening; if you want to watch the process of distinction, just watch your mind paying attention to various features of the whole, and thus creating 'things'. Eg I can take in my room as a whole, or zoom into particular features within it. 

Edited February 13, 2021 by snowyowl

[Gesundheit]

Be-cause.

[Vibroverse]

It has no reason. If I say to you because of z, you will say why z. If i say that the reason of z is y, then why y. Ad infinitum. 

[Aaron p]

On 10/02/2021 at 1:26 AM, Leo Gura said:

If you don't get it, it's because you haven't awoken to the fact that everything you see and hear is nothing. And no amount of logicking this will do it.

You cannot substitute for lack of awakening by thinking some more.

Knowledge Vs intercourse