Is the pursuit of enlightenment a self-bias?

[actualizing25]

Hey guys,

so one of my main reasons to pursue awakening is the escape of suffering/to live in peace, blissful and happy. But I realized that these reasons are huge self-biases, which are directed towards satisfying my ego. They are a part of my survival agenda. So very selfish reasons to pursue awakening as you can see. So should I try to let go of these motivations? and should I try to change my motivations for example to pursue Truth for its own sake?

 

thank you guys

[Moksha]

Is your ego guilt-tripping you about wanting to be happy?  Lol, don't listen to it. The ego thrives on suffering. Freedom from suffering is the opposite of selfishness, and the end of the ego. It knows that, so why do you think it is shouting at you right now? You don't need a survival agenda, you just need to Be. Why do we struggle so much, without realizing that the struggle itself is the source of suffering? It's about unconditional surrender to Love, which is who You are.

[actualizing25]

@Moksha But isn't the search for happiness/freedom a very selfish reason? Because this search promises benefits for the ego.

[allislove]

@actualizing25

There is no you, a separate entity that can change something. There are no motives in actuality, just spontaneous creation, i.e. inspiration, in spirit, you, joy, light, love, here, now, this.

What you can do about this? Nothing, there is no you. Enjoy  

[vladorion]

The search doesn't promise benefits for the ego. Pretty much every teacher says, "you" are not gonna get anything out of it.

[actualizing25]

@vladorion Why are your pursuing enlightenment then? 

[Nahm]

16 hours ago, actualizing25 said:

Hey guys,

so one of my main reasons to pursue awakening is the escape of suffering/to live in peace, blissful and happy. But I realized that these reasons are huge self-biases, which are directed towards satisfying my ego. They are a part of my survival agenda. So very selfish reasons to pursue awakening as you can see. So should I try to let go of these motivations? and should I try to change my motivations for example to pursue Truth for its own sake?

 

thank you guys

The self bias, ego, survival agenda, selfish reasons, pursuit of Truth -  complicated narrative of a monkey mind. Don’t run, creating the suffering yet again. Don’t seek enlightenment - illuminate the suffering, see what it is. Let it show you what you are. The satisfaction is hiding there. 

 

My dear friend

don’t expect me 

to sustain for you

in grief

don’t expect anything

from me but happiness

intoxication and good times

since God created us

only for this

i wreck logic and

fight a sober mind

 Rumi 

 

 

 

[Moksha]

3 hours ago, actualizing25 said:

@Moksha But isn't the search for happiness/freedom a very selfish reason? Because this search promises benefits for the ego.

Discovering happiness and freedom in yourself is the opposite of selfishness. How are you going to love yourself, and love others, when you are miserable and imprisoned? Selfishness is suffering. Love is freedom from suffering.

Why do you believe enlightenment would benefit the ego? It is the realization that the ego is an illusion. It is nothing but a shadow that is banished by light.

[roopepa]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

My dear friend

don’t expect me 

to sustain for you

in grief

don’t expect anything

from me but happiness

intoxication and good times

since God created us

only for this

i wreck logic and

fight a sober mind

 Rumi 

 

[Scholar]

Guys, it is a Self-bias. Get it? Self bias!

[actualizing25]

@Moksha So you are saying happiness is not possible without enlightenment?

[Leo Gura]

Strictly-speaking, the valuing of enlightenment over non-enlightenment is a bias. God doesn't really care whether it's enlightened or not.

But of all the biases one can have, this one you should worry least about.

[Breakingthewall]

On 7/2/2021 at 10:20 PM, actualizing25 said:

should I try to change my motivations for example to pursue Truth for its own sake?

You can't choose your motivations

[How to be wise]

53 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

God doesn't really care whether it's enlightened or not.

Then what is the purpose of life? Up to this point, I thought it was because God wants to experience itself fully. Surely that means getting enlightened?

[Inliytened1]

@actualizing25 in my opinion this is one of the reasons why powerful psychedelics are recommended here.   My awakening was via meditation - but the key for me was i stumbled apon spirituality.  You already may be at a point where you know too much - meaning the ego has seized awakening for itself and made it its own.  Now you have built a web of stories around enlightenment that might act as a shield for the ego, not the other way around.  That's how tricky this is.  

Well lemme tell you, when doing the actual spiritual work the ego will not have a damn thing to say about it.  With meditation ego death could happen seamlessly - but in your situation it will more than likely press back at you and recoil in terror - to prevent you from further spiritual work....but with a powerful psychedelic it would be overwhelmed and slain seamlessly - and this whole conversation becomes a moot point.    Something to keep in mind.

[Leo Gura]

38 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

Then what is the purpose of life? Up to this point, I thought it was because God wants to experience itself fully. Surely that means getting enlightened?

God wouldn't experience itself fully if it didn't experience being asleep.

[Eren Eeager]

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

God wouldn't experience itself fully if it didn't experience being asleep.

2 questions: 

1) Can God ever experience itself fully? 

2) How important is the human experience for God to understand itself in comparison to, let's say, being an ant? 

[Valwyndir]

Don't aim to get rid of your biases.

Aim to become aware of your biases. 

Don't shy away from the ego.

Observe the ego. 

28 minutes ago, Eren Eeager said:

2 questions: 

1) Can God ever experience itself fully? 

2) How important is the human experience for God to understand itself in comparison to, let's say, being an ant? 

1) From one perspective, no or God wouldn't be infinite. 

From another perspective, yes because right now is God in its entirety. 

The best answer lies within the realization that both perspectives are neither true nor false. 

2) Well, have you ever experienced any other experience outside of the human experience?

To say an "experience" of an ant even exists would be quite the assumption. 

Many people assume that because God is infinite, God will "experience" everything. 

Well of course God could not experience everything due to the limits that God imposes upon itself in order to create a physical reality. 

God cannot experience an infinite amount of experiences in time. 

This is not a flaw but simply a cost of its creation.

It's analogous to God not being able to create a square circle. 

By the "law" of a square, it cannot be a circle.

By the "law" of time, God cannot experience infinite experiences even with infinite time. 

Literally a quadrillion ants are born every year and that's just in this reality. 

Theoretically there could be infinite realities with an infinite amount of ant lives.

If God just focused on experiencing ants, it could never experience anything else, even with infinite time, because the infinite ant reincarnation

cycle would never end.

This is simply the limit of time.  

This is why it's more accurate to say that God is neither finite nor infinite (or both finite and infinite). 

You are experiencing being a human for a reason.

[How to be wise]

1 hour ago, Eren Eeager said:

Can God ever experience itself fully? 

Since God is infinite, the process of experiencing itself will never end.

 

[Eren Eeager]

6 hours ago, Valwyndir said:

To say an "experience" of an ant even exists would be quite the assumption. 

why would it be? 

I don't quite get the points you were making for the second question. Isn't God everything including ants?