What do you think of hedonism?

[Someone here]

On 2/7/2021 at 7:42 PM, LastThursday said:

Hedonism lacks the effort and/or positivity. 

Well if I were to choose between winning a million dollars in the lottery or working /putting effort /positivity for 10 years and then earning a million dollars.. I would choose the first ?. 

[Someone here]

16 hours ago, mmKay said:

Then you realize that the pain of avoiding discomfort outweights chasing pleasure by far. 

The point is that pain is inevitable. It's an intrinsic part of life. However.. Obviously if you could minimize your pain you would do it. It's not a realistic expectation to expect that you will never again in your life going to have a bad day... The hedonist works on minimizing pain not completely eliminating as that is not possible (there is no pleasure without some sort of pain or price). 

[Someone here]

16 hours ago, commie said:

Why the fuck not? I'm hungry right now and I don't care if I'm happy (which is another way to say I'm happy). I don't need to eat because my liver can dump enough glucose in my bloodstream to last me a while (don't worry: I won't bore you to death by going on about proteins and so forth). I'll eat whenever. I'm not food insecure so who cares?

Well that can work up to a certain point and then you can't do it right? You just have to eat or otherwise you will starve and suffer until death.  So My point you actually NEED stuff to be happy. And as soon as it lacks you will suffer.(namely food in this case). That goes against the idea of unconditional happiness. It seems happiness IS dependent upon certain things. Certain conditions. There is no way you will be happy while starving. You will feel like shit. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Someone here

[Carl-Richard]

You can't maintain pleasure by pursuing pleasureable conditions (hedonic adaptation). If you're a smart hedonist, you have to cultivate your ability to feel unconditional pleasure, and that requires aligning yourself with a transcendent, ordered principle. The highest principle is God. By realizing your true nature as God, you'll come to terms with the everchanging nature of reality, and you won't need to chase conditional pleasures.

[Someone here]

9 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

you're a smart hedonist, you have to cultivate your ability to feel unconditional pleasure. 

What is 'unconditional pleasure'?  Pleasure is a condition. Pleasure is not pain. And pain is not boredom. And boredom is not grief etc. 

9 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

and that requires aligning yourself with a transcendent. 

Well perhaps if you followed my recent threads.. I discovered that there is no transcendental aspects of reality. So called material world is all there is. All that we are certain of at least. 

 

9 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

The highest principle is God. By realizing your true nature as God. 

This gets tricky. I have to ask what do you mean by God? And what does 'true' mean? Is there a false nature? The true nature is already the case (since true) which is what you are directly experiencing all that time. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Someone here

[Carl-Richard]

45 minutes ago, Someone here said:

What is 'unconditional pleasure'?  Pleasure is a condition. Pleasure is not pain. And pain is not boredom. And boredom is not grief etc. 

Conditional pleasure is when pleasure is dependent on a condition in order to arise. Unconditional pleasure is when it's not.

Step 1: Place a Buddhist monk in silence for 10 minutes.

Step 2: Place a TikTok addicted zoomer in silence for 10 minutes.

Do I have to say more?

 

45 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Well perhaps if you followed my recent threads.. I discovered that there is no transcendental aspects of reality. So called material world is all there is. All that we are certain of at least. 

Let's say you're a hedonist who likes food. You think food brings you pleasure, so you keep eating more and more food until you vomit. The hedonist doesn't realize that more food (condition) doesn't necessarily produce more pleasure (response), infact it can produce the opposite of pleasure.

But if you eat a certain type of food, in a certain amount, at a certain time, in a certain way, you've discovered a way of maximizing pleasure. If you were to eat your food that way, you're following a transcendent principle; a structure, an order, something "above" just having more; something transcendent.

Now, the ultimate transcendent principle is God, because then it's not about maximizing the outcome of just one condition (eating), but instead it's about maximizing the outcomes of all conditions. This requires you to align yourself with the natural pulse of universe; the way it breathes, the way it flows. You start going with reality rather than against it. Aligning yourself with all conditions is the same as being unconditional.

Edited February 9, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Tim R]

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

doesn't mean that living a painful life is better or even equal to living an exciting life. 

never said that, did I?

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

I don't agree with this concept.

Well you asked for the definition of happiness. I gave you mine, make of it whatever you will.

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

And there is no way I'm going to agree that happiness=sadness.

Happiness isn't necessarily joy. If you say that joy doesn't equal sadness I'm with you on that one, but happiness is the inclusion and acceptance of sadness. 

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

Saying yes to no means saying no. 

Exactly! But in a yes-way. It's the acceptance of non-acceptance. It's a meta-yes.

[blackchair]

i think i get "lost" in hedonism and real world and reality is waiting around corner always.

[mmKay]

5 hours ago, Someone here said:

The point is that pain is inevitable. It's an intrinsic part of life. However. Obviously if you could minimize your pain you would do it. It's not a realistic expectation to expect that you will never again in your life going to have a bad day... The hedonist works on minimizing pain not completely eliminating as that is not possible (there is no pleasure without some sort of pain or price). 

" The hedonist " is a fictional character and mental concept here. No one in the world considers himself to be " a hedonist " philosophically with certain rules of behaviour and no one reads ancient books on how to become a hedonist .

We are talking about practical consecuences of structuring your life on chasing pleasure and stimulation while avoiding physical / emotional pain.

The result is insatisfaction and unfulfilment or distraction from growth untill you die. Counter-intuitively, it's more satisfying to do challenging things and overcome obstacles than avoiding them.

 

Having a proper guidance in life is a nuance balance between these two thingss : Extreme strategical and system thinking and being in touch with deep inner intuition. One for the big picture and the latter for day to day navigation.

 

Sprinke some treats for your life here and there. Don't make your life about and candy and warm blankets. Or just do what you want tbh.

Edited February 9, 2021 by mmKay

[LfcCharlie4]

Meh, I prefer Non-Duality where you find true, absolute happiness and then you can enjoy all the pleasures you want as an expression & celebration of this understanding instead of being dependent on them for happiness. 

For example, having Sex as a celebration of your connection with someone, instead of just a mutual masturbation with someone else to fill a void. 

Or drinking alone at night out of desperation, compared to going to the club / pub with your friends to have some fun & for the joy of it. 

This way your happiness is not dependent on outside factors or hedonistic pursuits, but you can still enjoy them without getting stuck in the spiral of addiction. 

All that matters to me is Happiness though, and I can tell you when you're depressed no amount of pleasure alone will fix it, it just provides band aids. 

The most ironic part of all is that when you are actually happy you can enjoy these 'Hedonistic' pursuits 10000x more as they are coming from a place of fullness, instead of lack. 

[Dancer]

18 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

Meh, I prefer Non-Duality where you find true, absolute happiness and then you can enjoy all the pleasures you want as an expression & celebration of this understanding instead of being dependent on them for happiness. 

For example, having Sex as a celebration of your connection with someone, instead of just a mutual masturbation with someone else to fill a void. 

Or drinking alone at night out of desperation, compared to going to the club / pub with your friends to have some fun & for the joy of it. 

This way your happiness is not dependent on outside factors or hedonistic pursuits, but you can still enjoy them without getting stuck in the spiral of addiction. 

All that matters to me is Happiness though, and I can tell you when you're depressed no amount of pleasure alone will fix it, it just provides band aids. 

The most ironic part of all is that when you are actually happy you can enjoy these 'Hedonistic' pursuits 10000x more as they are coming from a place of fullness, instead of lack. 

@LfcCharlie4

Love what you said man.

I am having a perfect day today. And I totally relate with what you are saying...

And it can definitely be improved..lol

It can't actually be improved.

LMAO

Edited February 10, 2021 by Dancer

[Roy]

On 2/6/2021 at 3:41 PM, Someone here said:

What are some flaws of this way of life?

It's obviously an egoic approach and is easily corrupted by selfishness. "Pleasure" being "Good" can make one easily blind to the fact that many pleasures come at the expense of other creatures and the environment. But since it's "Good" from the ego's POV the ends justify the means.

Not to mention no matter how much you indulge in hedonism those experiences and states of pleasure are always fleeting, they are ultimately hollow and will never satisfy you.

Anytime someone says they are a hedonist to me I basically laugh, they may as well have "Devil" on their forehead written in bright red letters 

[Carl-Richard]

10 minutes ago, Roy said:

Not to mention no matter how much you indulge in hedonism those experiences and states of pleasure are always fleeting, they are ultimately hollow and will never satisfy you.

Pure hedonism cannot be practiced. You must always have something else to drag you out of that endless hole of chasing something you cannot have  

[LastThursday]

On 09/02/2021 at 4:35 AM, Someone here said:

Well if I were to choose between winning a million dollars in the lottery or working /putting effort /positivity for 10 years and then earning a million dollars.. I would choose the first ?. 

Just saying it as it is. You can bet there's a big difference between someone who wins the lottery and someone who works for that same money. Anyway, the chance of actually winning the lottery is pretty much zero. And that's the trouble with chasing pleasure and hedonism, it distorts reality. I'd plump for the second, both for the self actualization journey and its benefits and for the chances being bigger than zero.

[Gesundheit]

I think it's an impermanent mode of being.

[Someone here]

What is the relationship then Between happiness and pleasure if they don't equal each other??  What is the definition of happiness if not according to the hedonism philosophy (avoiding pain and suffering and achieving maximum pleasure)? 

Edited February 27, 2021 by Someone here

[Gesundheit]

@Someone here Happiness is peace of mind. You will know it when you experience it. It's impossible to miss such an experience when it happens.

Think of a sea and a lake:

The sea is always moving and the waves are always conflicting and hitting against each other; one wave rising and the other falling, in a never-ending rotation.

The lake is calm and peaceful, there are no conflicts, no highs or lows, no wins or losses, nothing but serenity. 

[Someone here]

5 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Happiness is peace of mind.

How do you get peace of mind?  Without external means?  And since reality is constantly shifting and throwing new challenges constantly.. How is it possible to establish unconditional peace of mind (happiness)? 

[Gesundheit]

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

How do you get peace of mind?  Without external means?  And since reality is constantly shifting and throwing new challenges constantly.. How is it possible to establish unconditional peace of mind (happiness)? 

I don't think 100% happiness all the time is a realistic goal in life.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Gesundheit

[Someone here]

6 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

I don't think 100% happiness all the time is a realistic goal in life
.

Are you saying Unconditional happiness love and pink unicorns is woo woo stuff?