Why do I need to contemplate theory when I can just field-test it?

[benny]

11 minutes ago, Origins said:

@benny See right now you're not differentiating the fact that perception, instinct, thinking and awareness are entirely different things.

Can you please elaborate on what you think an infants sense of knowing is?

Infants don't think "that's just obvious" nor do birds solely walk on the ground or purely land animals approach water and say "its self-evident I'm not meant for water" (aka the traditional domesticated cat). Field testing has multiple components, you have to test and then you have to infer. If you're inferring the wrong things from accurate measurements how useful are  the accurate measurements? If I correctly organise the right medication in the precise way but give it to the wrong patient, they'll die. The same too for scientific journals when there's accurate measurements but incorrect inferences. 

Sir, if our best scientists struggle with field testing and inferences together and you're struggling with your own inferences here I think you ought to take a step back and examine things a little more clearly, minus the assumptions or a need to be right outside of trying to see things clearly (outside of the psychological structures of the mind that try to make a personal endeavour out of this thus having reality masked from them more than they otherwise would).

@Origins You're assuming I'm struggling with my inferences. What makes you think that?

 

Also, parts your posts are so verbose and vague that it's hard for me to determine what you're trying to say.

 

As far as the infant is concerned, you make a valid point. There probably isn't any form of reasoning in my example. Perhaps it is just instinct. But if it was instinct that produced a successful outcome, then of what use was contemplating the implications of walking off the edge of the cliff?

Edited February 6, 2021 by benny

[benny]

25 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Can you give a few examples? 

@Nahm If I learn that great conversationalists generally allow the other person to do 70-80% of the talking by encouraging the other person to talk about themselves, I can go and tests that out to see how it impacts my relationships and day-to-day interactions.

 

If I learn that setting definite dates with women (definite day, time place) will decrease flakes and lead to more dates, I can go and set definite dates with women to see how it impacts my dating life.

 

If I learn that regular exercise and a healthy diet will improve my self-esteem and give me more energy, I can eat healthy and exercise and observe the results.

 

Why do I need to contemplate these things?

[Origins]

@benny Well that's because you need to step back and think a little more before making judgements about things, aka my posts.

"You're assuming I'm struggling with my inferences. What makes you think that?"

You've just answered your own question with your first statement of your last paragraph "as far as the infant..."

Stop fooling around here please. I don't like my time wasted just as much as anyone else.

Go build a skyscraper and let me know if both contemplation or field testing was more useful. I'm done with your nonsense now. Eat that for vague and verbose. 

[benny]

2 minutes ago, Origins said:

@benny Well that's because you need to step back and think a little more before making judgements about things, aka my posts.

"You're assuming I'm struggling with my inferences. What makes you think that?"

You've just answered your own question with your first statement of your last paragraph "as far as the infant..."

Stop fooling around here please. I don't like my time wasted just as much as anyone else.

Go build a skyscraper and let me know if both contemplation or field testing was more useful. I'm done with your nonsense now. Eat that for vague and verbose. 

@Origins You seem angry. Perhaps you should contemplate the implications of becoming reactive over a rather neutral and constructive criticism of your writing style. What does that say about your degree of emotional maturity?

 

Hey! I think I'm staring to see the merit of this whole contemplation thing!

[Nahm]

@benny

What is your connotation of contemplation?

[Origins]

@benny Benny the conclusion that you're just meant to reach is that I just don't like you anymore. You've fallen out of favour. That's all it is. Nothing else to add. Now move on to quoting someone else please, I'd rather not be disturbed.

[benny]

15 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@benny

What is your connotation of contemplation?

@Nahm Contemplation, to me, is taking a teaching and asking questions about it, such as, is this true? What makes it true? What evidence have I seen for and/or against this assertion? If it is true, what implications does it have for ____? If it's true, how do I need to change my approach to doing _____?

 

But oftentimes, this just seems like overthinking to me.

 

Also, if I have a faulty perception of contemplation, please correct me.

Edited February 6, 2021 by benny

[Leo Gura]

57 minutes ago, benny said:

@Leo Gura I call BS on that. Even an infant knows not to walk off the edge of steep cliff.

You don't get it.

It isn't even true that falling off a cliff is bad. That is your bias.

See, by not contemplating such things you have already fallen into falsehood.

[benny]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

You don't get it.

It isn't even true that falling off a cliff is bad. That is your bias.

See, by not contemplating such things you have already fallen into falsehood.

@Leo Gura What I think you're saying, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that falling off the cliff, fundamentally, simply is. "Bad" is a projection of my mind in an attempt to maintain the survival of the ego and physical organism.

 

I'm not blind to the fact that contemplation is an avenue for arriving at objective Truth.

 

Going back and forth with you guys is leading me to conclude that contemplation plays a role in stage orange pursuits (currently where I am, for the most part), but becomes a more regular and prevalent aspect of life as I move up the spiral.

Edited February 7, 2021 by benny

[Nahm]

@benny

Doesn’t seem faulty, those are great contemplative questions. I can see how it remains in the duality of thought though, and what you could try if you’re interested. A lot came to mind. This is what I do and I find it really enjoyable, fun and it feels more & more amazing with more & more momentum. 

I would let SD’s go altogether in regard to contemplation. You can receive the answer to anything you want to know, and use insights for whatever you want obviously, but it is not efficient or helpful to attach a goal, or expected outcome. It’s most efficient to do it for the fun of the experience, no matter what the question contemplated is. This could be challenging to and revealing of any attachment to success, getting, attaining, etc. The more life is fun, the more insights naturally arise, let alone in contemplation.  

 

Contemplation isn’t perception. Perception is seeing, hearing, etc. It’s an important distinction as awareness is directly aware of thought, perception, and sensation, and contemplation (in this manor) is via thought & sensation. Zero awareness of perception when contemplating (questions & answers) would actually be ideal. Answers to contemplation come as insights which feel exciting and arise in the ‘space’ that is normally ‘filled’ with the activity of the intellect or thinking / churning / busied mind. The deeper importance of that distinction is the key to contemplation is getting the intellect out of the way. An experience, or, vibration, also known as joy.  

Answers & questions come from within. Same source, same substance, same ‘team’, same space. Etc. The illusion is of a separate you, the thinker or the contemplator figuring it out, or reasoning, etc, etc. Paradoxically that intention feels good, but more to the intellect than the heart if you will. The key to contemplation is getting the intellect out of the way and connecting with infinite intelligence / joy. The thinker has been a theme of sorts in art for a long time btw. 

 

Completely relax, and have the mindset of complete relaxation and effortless receiving. Don’t just think relaxation, feel it deeply. The body is the temple, it’s like an antenna of intelligence-receiving, right under your nose. 

Write a question on a pad of paper (not a screen). Stare at the question on the pad, hold it in mind. Put all attention on it, let everything else fade out. Gently focus for maybe one or two minutes. No intensity at all, no forcing, pushing, tensioning. Completely relax the entire body,. Feel the moment, and feel excitement. Use the emotional scale as to raise your vibration to excitement. This is also key as the top of the scale is the clearest receiving vibration. The more you use the scale and contemplate, the better you feel, the more the body mind resonates, the more easily & plentiful the insights come. This is the metadventure, as it is always afoot and underway, all day everyday. Mindfulness of this metadventure is very revealing of the magical ‘aspect’ of experience. 

After a couple minutes of relaxation, focus, and excitement on the question...completely let it go. The key here is completely forgetting the question altogether.

Get symbolic, if you will. Into imagination, less into thinking. Be energetically involved. Shake your body, shake the question energy out of the body, feel the weight of it release. If open minded enough, hold crystals, or put a couple in your pocket. Put on a jam, etc. Call someone who might be down and hold space for em. Maybe exercise, or go for a walk. You get the idea, anything that feels good, fun and energetic to you. 

Crumble the paper up and throw it away, or light it on fire and watch it burn. Or tie it to a kite string and let it go. Or ball the paper, shove it into the core of an apple and smash it with a sledge hammer. Whatever you like, just be energetically involved with the ‘it’s gone’ factor of completely letting it go from mind. It’s gone. You don’t need it. You don’t even remember what the question was. You’re just going to have fun whatever arises as usual. Carefree in the knowing you have a source for contemplation. Excited what’s to follow knowing you are never without source. 

Then do good feeling stuff, whatever that is for you. The answer / insight will come fully in an out of the blue way, and be more insight that what you could have or would have thought. There’s a correlation to the higher vibration of feeling good, and the true nature, infinite intelligence, the answer arises ‘from’. 

 

Experiment with questions intimate & relevant to you. When you start out, start with contemplating anything that seems to be challenging as far as using the scale. This is were momentum in connection (feeling great) if you will, transpires.

Then perception begins to change. Looks the same, but the nature of the experience of what is seen changes. Intuition recognizes the synchronicity of the happenings within this. Let em be together naturally, like let em play together like kids. Be open minded. Be kid-like in this way. Fun & joy is actual success, all great ‘stuffs’ follow intrinsically. Relaxed, interested, curious, open minded, receiving. Use the scale, notice the correlation with experience. How you feel, and how experience is unfolding ‘around you’. 

 

To directly experience, and thus be able to compare, and thus fine tune sensation in terms of ‘connection’ in contemplation...

Also use a few questions that are not relevant to you in a feeling regard. Just so you can realize the difference between the experience of these questions, and your relevant to you / your life questions. 

Also use a few questions about stuff someone else surely knows, but you definitely don’t know. Again, to feel the difference between this and questions relevant to you / where you’re at in life. 

Embrace paradox, do everything you can to be humble, yet joyful & energetic. Reciting is carefree, lighthearted, nothing serious going on. So to speak, God might not find it best to give you the lottery numbers, but might inspire you every step of the way. A polarity just for communication, more at the loving guidance frequency...less greediness. 

One of the fastest contemplations, to ‘grease the contemplation wheel’, which is uber-connective...is to write down the names of three people you know, and contemplate what the nicest and or most helpful thing you could do for each of them in terms of where they’re at in their life is. Contemplate one at a time. This really zips the vibration up to love quickly. 

A bit wordy. Hopefully some helpful nuggets! 

 

[zeroISinfinity]

@Nahm Wow.

But have you heard of this guy? 

 

 

[benny]

16 hours ago, Nahm said:

the duality of thought

What does this mean?

 

16 hours ago, Nahm said:

I would let SD’s go altogether

What's an SD?

 

16 hours ago, Nahm said:

but it is not efficient or helpful to attach a goal, or expected outcome.

This will be a challenge. Why should I contemplate something if it doesn't have a chance to help me move towards what I want?

 

16 hours ago, Nahm said:

This could be challenging to and revealing of any attachment to success, getting, attaining, etc.

Definitely have these lol

 

16 hours ago, Nahm said:

The more life is fun, the more insights naturally arise, let alone in contemplation. 

That answers my second question. Quite counter-intuitive, but a lot of the avenues to success are! The challenge would then be becoming attached to not becoming attached, because I'm attached to getting deep insights.

 

16 hours ago, Nahm said:

Zero awareness of perception when contemplating (questions & answers) would actually be ideal.

So unconsciously processing something?  

 

16 hours ago, Nahm said:

Contemplation isn’t perception. Perception is seeing, hearing, etc. It’s an important distinction as awareness is directly aware of thought, perception, and sensation, and contemplation (in this manor) is via thought & sensation

Could you say this another way?

 

16 hours ago, Nahm said:

Answers to contemplation come as insights which feel exciting and arise in the ‘space’ that is normally ‘filled’ with the activity of the intellect or thinking / churning / busied mind.

So when the mind is quieted, it makes space for insight from a higher intelligence? But don't I need to contemplate to arrive at insights, and if so, aren't I thinking, and therefore taking up "space"?

 

16 hours ago, Nahm said:

getting the intellect out of the way

How do I contemplate without the intellect? As far as I understand, the intellect is the tool for contemplation.

 

16 hours ago, Nahm said:

Answers & questions come from within. Same source, same substance, same ‘team’, same space. Etc. The illusion is of a separate you, the thinker or the contemplator figuring it out, or reasoning, etc, etc

I've never had a non-dual experience. Is this even feasible for me, given my current level of development?

 

16 hours ago, Nahm said:

The key to contemplation is getting the intellect out of the way and connecting with infinite intelligence / joy

Infinite intelligence? I don't even know what that is!

 

16 hours ago, Nahm said:

This is the metadventure, as it is always afoot and underway, all day everyday. Mindfulness of this metadventure is very revealing of the magical ‘aspect’ of experience. 

Please say more about the meta-adventure

 

16 hours ago, Nahm said:

When you start out, start with contemplating anything that seems to be challenging as far as using the scale.

So questions I have a hard time moving up the scale with?

 

16 hours ago, Nahm said:

Intuition recognizes the synchronicity of the happenings within this.

What does this mean?

 

16 hours ago, Nahm said:

Fun & joy is actual success, all great ‘stuffs’ follow intrinsically.

Agreed! Your vibration attracts people and other things into your life. The higher your vibration, the more beautiful life becomes!

 

16 hours ago, Nahm said:

To directly experience, and thus be able to compare, and thus fine tune sensation in terms of ‘connection’ in contemplation...

What does this mean?

 

16 hours ago, Nahm said:

Reciting is carefree, lighthearted, nothing serious going on. So to speak, God might not find it best to give you the lottery numbers, but might inspire you every step of the way. A polarity just for communication, more at the loving guidance frequency...less greediness. 

What do you mean by reciting? What do you mean by polarity for communication?

16 hours ago, Nahm said:

One of the fastest contemplations, to ‘grease the contemplation wheel’, which is uber-connective...is to write down the names of three people you know, and contemplate what the nicest and or most helpful thing you could do for each of them in terms of where they’re at in their life is. Contemplate one at a time. This really zips the vibration up to love quickly. 

A bit wordy. Hopefully some helpful nuggets! 

This last part is deep. Probably the nugget that resonates with me the most. Thank you for taking the time to share this!

Edited February 7, 2021 by benny

[Nahm]

2 minutes ago, benny said:

What does this mean?

Thought is twoness. This & that, up & down, left & right, etc. 

2 minutes ago, benny said:

What's a SD?

Spiral Dynamics. 

2 minutes ago, benny said:

This will be a challenge.

That is a thought, which doesn’t resonate because it’s not true. It’s effortless. 

2 minutes ago, benny said:

Why should I contemplate something if it doesn't have a chance to help me move towards what I want?

For the fun, for the feeling. Same “reason” you want what you want in the first place. 

4 minutes ago, benny said:

Definitely have these lol

Lol. I hear ya. Notice you don’t really “have” thoughts...you’re aware they come & go. 

5 minutes ago, benny said:

Quite counter-intuitive

Conditioning, yes. This becomes highly intuitive, with practice and letting go of thoughts that don’t resonate (feel good to you). 

6 minutes ago, benny said:

So unconsciously processing something?  

No. There is no such actual experience as “unconscious”. Perception is seeing, hearing, etc.

 

“Contemplation isn’t perception. Perception is seeing, hearing, etc. It’s an important distinction as awareness is directly aware of thought, perception, and sensation, and contemplation (in this manor) is via thought & sensation.”

Could you say this another way?

The answer wanted which arises in contemplation has nothing to do with vision, smell, hearing, taste, etc. (Those are perception).

 

8 minutes ago, benny said:

So when the mind is quieted, it makes space for insight from a higher intelligence? But don't I need to contemplate to arrive at insights, and if so, aren't I thinking, and therefore taking up "space"?

In thought - it seems like - there’s a “you” which is “the thinker”. There isn’t. That is just a thought. A thought, that there is. But there actually, isn’t. 

The materialist paradigm is that humans “have” intelligence. The actuality is “humans” are, are the infinite intelligence, appearing. There is no such things as humans, there is the thought, “humans”. 

Because “humans” is a thought, and not separate entities....there is only One intelligence, our infinite being. 

That “space”, and “the activity of thinking” are one in the same. The space appears as “thinking”. 

Meditation relaxes & the thinking activity settles. And thus the space is “revealed”.  Like coulda which blow away, and the clear sky is “revealed”. The clear sky was always present, just some clouds were appearing to cover it, making it seem like the sky is a “higher intelligence”. 

13 minutes ago, benny said:

How do I contemplate without the intellect? As far as I understand, the intellect is the tool for contemplation.

That’s exactly what an “I” would say, lol, just kidding. Let it be funny, and it is. Relief. Relaxation. Laughter. 

 “I” is a thought. Not “a separate entity”. There is One infinite entity, and “it” is you. 

Where is this “I” in perception? Point to “it”? Can’t be done because it doesn’t actually exist. It’s an assumption, an illusion. 

15 minutes ago, benny said:

I've never had a non-dual experience. Is this even feasible for me, given my currently level of development?

That’s a belief. The truth is you’ve never had a dual experience. 

15 minutes ago, benny said:

Infinite intelligence? I don't even know what that is!

It’s what folks keep calling “physical reality”.

It’s THIS!    (look around the room). 

That is infinite intelligence. 

Super intelligent, able to & appearing as, “reality”, isn’t it?   That is a downright unthinkable, unbelievable “level” of intelligence!   Can’t be thought, can’t be believed - because it’s infinite! All thought is a finite appearance (one thought at a time). 

17 minutes ago, benny said:

Please say more about the meta-adventure

I’ve said too much already. It’s your adventure. 

18 minutes ago, benny said:

So questions I have a hard time moving up the scale with?

The hardest part of the dreamboard, is ordering one. 

The hardest part of using the emotional scale, is admitting, expressing, the emotion you’re actually feeling. An easy example is jealousy. This gets covered with the belief, “social anxiety” - “it’s because of other people....can’t possibly be that I’m creating it”. What it most often is, is jealousy. I see folks with stuff, husbands, wives, business, etc...and I think down upon myself, as if I couldn’t create that experience too. It feel better to express - “I’m jealous!! That’s what this emotion really is! - and we feel relief having expressed it, or ‘got it out’”. Then move to the next higher emotion on the scale. 

The Cale is not for question, it’s for understanding emotions and ‘moving up the scale’, getting to the top emotions. That is resonating with being - that Is Being. Then the communion, or line of communication is ‘strong’, you are in ‘receiving mode’ as EstHer Hicks calls it. 

22 minutes ago, benny said:

16 hours ago, Nahm said:

Intuition recognizes the synchronicity of the happenings within this.

What does this mean?

 

There was never ‘two’, and this gets more and more realized using the scale, and bring our infinite unconditonal being into your life. Co-creating your life, with your source. ?

24 minutes ago, benny said:

Agreed! Your vibration attracts people and other things into your life. The higher your vibration, the more beautiful life becomes!

Right on! You might experience people being jealous of your attraction / attracting, of everything always working out for you in your joy. They might say “we can’t all be like you”, etc. And you can say you’re exactly like me!! Here’s a link to the emotional scale. Give it some practice and you will see! Then people will hate you also. Lol. Jk. 

26 minutes ago, benny said:

17 hours ago, Nahm said:

To directly experience, and thus be able to compare, and thus fine tune sensation in terms of ‘connection’ in contemplation...

What does this mean?

 

It doesn’t mean anything, and that is the beauty of it. More feeling = more sensitivity = more ‘infinite intelligence’ flowing through you (aka ‘flow state’). 

27 minutes ago, benny said:

17 hours ago, Nahm said:

Receiving  is carefree, lighthearted, nothing serious going on. So to speak, God might not find it best to give you the lottery numbers, but might inspire you every step of the way. A polarity just for communication, more at the loving guidance frequency...less greediness. 

What do you mean by reciting? What do you mean by polarity for communication?

I fixed my typo from reciting to receiving. 

I was pretending there is something other than love...”greed”, to communicate a point. 

31 minutes ago, benny said:

17 hours ago, Nahm said:

One of the fastest contemplations, to ‘grease the contemplation wheel’, which is uber-connective...is to write down the names of three people you know, and contemplate what the nicest and or most helpful thing you could do for each of them in terms of where they’re at in their life is. Contemplate one at a time. This really zips the vibration up to love quickly. 

A bit wordy. Hopefully some helpful nuggets! 

This last part is deep. Probably the nugget that resonates with me the most. Thank you for taking the time to share this!

Awesome.  Thank you! Have fun!