What are some of men's struggles that women don't understand?

[Dancer]

I stumbled on this article, and it got me thinking.

https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-of-mens-struggles-that-women-dont-understand/answer/Matthew-Bates-27

Please read and breath in the article.

 

How do we handle this issue?

Do we need to make more space for our destructive energy?

My dad once told me a story where he got into a fight as a kid. It was a destructive fight. There were fists swinging until exhaustion.

After the fight they became best friends...

Just saying.

[Dancer]

Why was this thread moved from Society, Environment, Government, Politics?

What has this thread to do with Dating, Relationships, Sexuality?

Ok then. We can talk about solutions and how to handle this issue here. Seems like the more conscious people hang out in this section anyway

[bejapuskas]

I think this thread could be in both subforums, but perhaps by relationships you could also see same sex non-romantic relationships (friendships for example) and what you posted about has to do with solving conflict in relationships. 

The thing with fighting is that you can never know how strong your opponent is; if you learn that a problem can be solved with fists, then you can easily get yourself into trouble. You might attack somebody who is very aggressive and they could send you to the hospital very quickly. So I think teaching kids to talk things through is a kind of a protection. Plus self-reflection and open-mindedness are much more sustainable solutions to conflict.

[flowboy]

You don't need solutions, because you have no problem.

 

Except that you are unconsciously seeking out content that upsets you in a certain way, and then want to go explore your self-generated upsetness of this particular flavor, with yourself through other people on this forum.

Simply acknowledge that you like this flavor of upset.

[intotheblack]

You think men naturally want to fight? Sounds very stage red.  I actually think it’s the opposite.  Men are told they will be more manly if they fight.  I think naturally they want to love, but external sources make them aggressive 

Edited February 6, 2021 by intotheblack

[Dancer]

14 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

I think this thread could be in both subforums, but perhaps by relationships you could also see same sex non-romantic relationships (friendships for example) and what you posted about has to do with solving conflict in relationships. 

The thing with fighting is that you can never know how strong your opponent is; if you learn that a problem can be solved with fists, then you can easily get yourself into trouble. You might attack somebody who is very aggressive and they could send you to the hospital very quickly. So I think teaching kids to talk things through is a kind of a protection. Plus self-reflection and open-mindedness are much more sustainable solutions to conflict.

I agree. I see that it belongs in both.

I agree that we should try to avoid solving conflicts with fists.

It's not what I'm pointing at. Did you read the article?

32 minutes ago, flowboy said:

You don't need solutions, because you have no problem.

 

Except that you are unconsciously seeking out content that upsets you in a certain way, and then want to go explore your self-generated upsetness of this particular flavor, with yourself through other people on this forum.

Simply acknowledge that you like this flavor of upset.

You are right. I have no problem.

I do like the flavor of destruction.

You are right. I can spend more time at the dojo and take my kid and his friends with me.

Thanks for reflecting!

 

 

[Dancer]

24 minutes ago, intotheblack said:

You think men naturally want to fight? Sounds very stage red.  I actually think it’s the opposite.  Men are told they will be more manly if they fight.  I think naturally they want to love, but external sources make them aggressive 

No creation without destruction. Females in general hold more creative energy and males more destructive.

It looks like a sperm is destroying the egg.

I'm a mix of both.

Exploring healthier ways to express the destructive part.

[Chew211]

For me the fight is against the world, through myself. 

It's channeled through building my body in the gym, reading hard philosophy that changes my world view, and working on becoming financially independent.

It's approaching the attractive woman I see even when I feel nervous. 

It's doing the thing when I don't feel ready. 

And sometimes it's putting on boxing gloves and sparring with my friend. 

Some people channel it through video games. 

It's not that we want to physically fight, it's that the male instinct is to dominate-- an instinct that is beaten out of us so that society can function.

There's a trade off between male instinct and societal function-- the key is maximizing your ability to act on your masculine instincts, while getting the most benefits from being part of society. 

[Dancer]

12 minutes ago, Chew211 said:

For me the fight is against the world, through myself. 

It's channeled through building my body in the gym, reading hard philosophy that changes my world view, and working on becoming financially independent.

It's approaching the attractive woman I see even when I feel nervous. 

It's doing the thing when I don't feel ready. 

And sometimes it's putting on boxing gloves and sparring with my friend. 

Some people channel it through video games. 

It's not that we want to physically fight, it's that the male instinct is to dominate-- an instinct that is beaten out of us so that society can function.

There's a trade off between male instinct and societal function-- the key is maximizing your ability to act on your masculine instincts, while getting the most benefits from being part of society. 

Beautiful man.

Thanks for sharing!

[Surfingthewave]

25 minutes ago, Chew211 said:

It's not that we want to physically fight, it's that the male instinct is to dominate-- an instinct that is beaten out of us so that society can function.

There's a trade off between male instinct and societal function-- the key is maximizing your ability to act on your masculine instincts, while getting the most benefits from being part of society. 

Good thread here @Dancer

@Chew211 Why do you think the male instinct is to dominate? Does this harp back to the hunter/ gatherer cave people times? 

[Raphael]

I never wanted to fight with my hands, but I fight with my intellect and awareness. In high school when someone provokes me, I used to rip them intellectually. Now, I see no need to fight or to respond anymore, I just avoid confrontations, and I'm good. But I do think that all man should know how to defend himself in case he gets into an unavoidable situation.

Two conscious ways to handle this masculine energy are through business and ultimately life purpose.

[Striving for more]

@intotheblack

7 hours ago, intotheblack said:

You think men naturally want to fight? Sounds very stage red.  I actually think it’s the opposite.  Men are told they will be more manly if they fight.  I think naturally they want to love, but external sources make them aggressive 

It's a mix of both. 

On the one hand we don't want to fight but in a way it's a primal urge. Kids don't just play fight for no reason. 

Of course this aggression can easily be channelled in healthier ways, through sports, martial arts practice. 

Also, culture can negatively influence us to think men should fight & act tough. Which leads to a desensitisation to the consequences of fighting when it becomes culturally preferable.

But we must never forget that it's also a primal urge & this is why adrenaline release through exercise, sports, competition (or whatever music ect..) is so important. 

When primal energy like repressed aggression gets squeezed too much the valve is waiting to break, fights can happen. 

7 hours ago, intotheblack said:

I think naturally they want to love, but external sources make them aggressive 

Sometimes a lack of love makes men aggressive. The guy who gets in a fight at a party or bar has all this self hatred & thus hatred for others, so that he's more than happy to fight because his whole psyche is hypnotized by expressing hatred on to the other, any excuse to express this via violent means is just too tempting, so when a guy spills his drink, his agressive psyche knows what it's goal is & so now here comes escalation. 

The feminine female equivalent might be through more covert means, aka passive aggression.  

[Chew211]

12 hours ago, Surfingthewave said:

Good thread here @Dancer

@Chew211 Why do you think the male instinct is to dominate? Does this harp back to the hunter/ gatherer cave people times? 

I think it's something that's deeper than it being a part of our socio-evolutionary development. 

Hunter Gatherers "societies" had less conflict amongst each other. It wasn't practical to horde resources, and people were on the move. Here domination took the form of fighting against the environment to survive. (Beige-Purple)

Agricultural societies is where you had specialization in violence and practicality when it came to hording resources. Here is where we see domination of one tribe over other, and within groups, hierarchies. (Red-Blue) 

So, no I don't think it's something that harps back to hunter gatherer times.

I think it's a deeper part of masculine psychology-- it's just that the manifestations are dependant on life conditions. 

[RendHeaven]

This perspective is worth taking seriously.

Be wary though. The guy who made this short, Alexander Grace, is a toxic ideologue with suppressed resentment towards women.

Generally, I would advice everyone to stay away from his content, but this one video I've linked actually does explain the perspective of some men pretty well.

[Emerald]

6 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

This perspective is worth taking seriously.

Be wary though. The guy who made this short, Alexander Grace, is a toxic ideologue with suppressed resentment towards women.

Generally, I would advice everyone to stay away from his content, but this one video I've linked actually does explain the perspective of some men pretty well.

The main issue with this is that it reinforces some fundamentally untrue beliefs... which constitute a major part of the reason why so many men struggle with low self esteem.

So, it strengthens the internal turmoil even as it attempts to give empathy... which is a dangerous combination. It can become an addictive cycle of psychological self-harm for so many men.

It's dangerous in this way because it validates men's emotions, which in most other contexts would be a good thing as there are uniquely male struggles and men don't get a lot of space to just be emotional beings... and the video speaks to this.

BUT the thing that makes it dangerous is that it reinforces the idea that all women only want the top tier man and that there are just fundamental "loser" men that no one wants... which isn't true.

Women are generally looking for their match and for someone she has chemistry with. There is literally no one who won't be desired by someone. And you can't look to dating website statistics to find out how attraction organically works. Dating website stats are skewed by their nature because women are generally most attracted to men's personalities... and on dating websites all you have to go off of is a photo and bio. 

And most importantly, because it's a mix of emotional validation and a reinforcement of false beliefs, it works incredibly well as propaganda. And this propaganda causes men to feel even more powerless and worthless and sews the seeds of resentment towards women as a whole group.

[RendHeaven]

@Emerald I don't agree with or endorse the video creator's message.

However, the reason I shared it is because it nonetheless represents a fairly common sentiment among men.

If it's in your interest to understand male struggles, listen to struggling men.

[Surfingthewave]

@RendHeaven @Chew211

So tell us, now is your opportunity. What are the Struggles men face? Interestingly no one had really taken up this thread. Do you think men struggle tto articulate as they don't want to appear vulnerable? 

I had to stop watching the video as there were so many assumptions made for both men and women. It is very hetronormative and plays into the male victim narrative. 

@Emerald you make some important points (as you have in other threads). Particularly about men having the space to be emotional beings.

Women are able to do this naturally with friends colleagues. I think, in my opinion, men don't have this space to be open about self esteem issues and difficulties so it can manifest in other unproductive ways such as anger, toxic masculinity, low self esteem, low confidence, assumptions about women etc. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Surfingthewave

[Chew211]

@Surfingthewave

The struggle OP was referring to was NOT dating related.

The man wants to fuck the world-- this can be in the creative, giving sense or the destructive sense.

The struggle is fucking the world in a world that necessitates most men be spiritually castrated wage slaves. (The issue is Capitalism, not hypergamy/any other female nature related causes). 

To fuck the world one must be free. 

Free financially, but also spiritually. 

The male struggle, imo, is to un-castrate oneself, and to find a way fuck the world.

It is the castrated that complain about women's high standards, not getting laid, etc-- a spiritually whole man will find away to get what he wants, and keep trying. If he wants a hot girlfriend, he'll keep approaching until he gets one. If he wants to be financially free, he'll keep trying until he is. Sure the failures might bother him from time to time but he just licks his wounds and gets back at it. 

-----

In response to the video

I watched the video, and a year ago I would have agreed with it. Going through a "Red Pill" phase is something a lot of men go through.

I think it's good to go through it, but only to dissolve what is designated as "blue pill" thinking. The issue with the Red Pill though is that it's wrong-- but it is a step up from naiive "blue pill" thinking (ideas if soulmates, being nice as a means of attracting a girl, and relationship structures based of off popular media, such as Disney movies, sitcoms, romcoms, romance movies/novels, etc). 

After "deconditioning" via the Red Pill you're left with a toxic leftover. Within the Red Pill it's called the Red Pill rage. Any bitterness you detect in men when talking about this topic is residue from that Red Pill rage phase-- I hope none of you have the displeasure of communicating with someone who's in the thick of their Red Pill rage. 

Most men don't move on from the Red Pill. Many men are indeed successful from being Red Pilled, and so don't further their development any further. 

The issue with the Red Pill is that it brings with it it's own ideology-- and Red Pillers deny that it is infact an ideology. 

The ideology itself reduces a man as something to be measured by female validation-- just like the blue pill-- except that the female validation in this case is sex, and not affirmations of how nice of a guy he is. A step up, but not the liberation they think they have. 

Most of them are still spiritually castrated, and have settled for just fucking instead of fucking the world. 

[Emerald]

10 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

@Emerald I don't agree with or endorse the video creator's message.

However, the reason I shared it is because it nonetheless represents a fairly common sentiment among men.

If it's in your interest to understand male struggles, listen to struggling men.

Listening to people's struggles is part of what I do for a living. 

So, there is an awareness that springs from that, that you must validate emotions AND dispel the beliefs that are creating or amplifying certain struggles. It's about helping them let go of false and limiting beliefs.

To take an extreme example, if someone believes that they're being stalked by ninja squirrels, my job is to validate their emotions and to help them work through it WHILE ALSO assuring them that they're definitely not being stalked by ninja squirrels.

If I validated their emotions and then confirmed their false belief in ninja squirrels stalking them, that would be very counterproductive. It could make their situation worse.

[Surfingthewave]

@Chew211 To fuck the world as you so describe surely you've got to play the game. And that's the problem. 

The OP was about winning, no?  

How do you win if the game is totally different. The rules have changed in the last decade - men (and women) need to keep up.

Red pill thinking is absolutely an ideolgy, imo an extension of locker room talk. 

Truth is we all get a shock from the  conditioning we have been fed over the years from media/education/systems/capitalism/dating etc. Men are scared as they don't know how to date/what women want/how to express themselves and women's needs/desires/wants have changed so radically. 

Was it Marilyn Manson that said keep people afraid and they will consume. (although now it turns out he is an abuser so maybe not so valid).