Absolute Truth or "perception"

[VeganAwake]

@Someone here  it's real and unreal

Watch at 4:15 ❤

 

[Nahm]

@VeganAwake ?

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, VeganAwake said:

@Someone here  it's real and unreal

Watch at 4:15 ❤

 

In a way this video is comical in the sense that the guy on the left doesn't get the joke. It reminds me of an Abbott and Costello's "Who's on First?" skit. Yet it's also painful to watch. They are both contracted and under the impression that their right-ness is universal. So they end up talking past each other and miss many opportunities to connect. 

 

[PureRogueQ]

1 hour ago, Forestluv said:

In a way this video is comical in the sense that the guy on the left doesn't get the joke. It reminds me of an Abbott and Costello's "Who's on First?" skit. Yet it's also painful to watch. They are both contracted and under the impression that their right-ness is universal. So they end up talking past each other and miss many opportunities to connect. 

 

connect on what? 

[VeganAwake]

@Forestluv What Jim's pointing to is, the experience 'you' felt watching this video is completeness being experienced as something other than completeness. ❤

[Forestluv]

35 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

@Forestluv What Jim's pointing to is, the experience 'you' felt watching this video is completeness being experienced as something other than completeness. ❤

I understand Jim’s point and I’m not saying he is wrong. That’s not what I’m pointing to. 

[Dancer]

Please don't deny your beautiful mothers. You came out of her whatever you like it or not.

There seem to be many people that are attached/identified with EVERYTHING.

They are still attached to their mother.

Cut the fucking cord guys.

You won't die.

How are you going to enjoy life when you are attached to your mother still?

Such limitation.

[Jodo]

10 hours ago, Someone here said:

@LastThursday

you could call it cheesecake if you like.  Now your point Is that the raw data is not the same thing as the label  ?  Yes will give ya that.

Now stick with the raw data of the thing that we colloquially call "hand"..  How is that not "the Truth"?. Or the thing that we colloquially understand from the word "Truth"? 

What RAW data? The information "code" that binds the forces that form the atoms in a certain array? Or maybe there is a "layer" beyond this code? And how is that not The Truth? - now you are saying basically the same thing as Leo (and many before him) - Truth is Everything, The idea of illusion is Truth, us making mistakes is Truth, wars and rapes and mutilations are Truth... everything is Truth, but you don't say much with that at an intellectual level... because - to our intellect this looks like a tautology, which it is... Like saying - Everything is Everything! OR "If you want to win, you must not loose!  Right! And it is Truth - because it is there and it is beyond discriminations, it encompasses All! It easily "cuts (permeates, Is) through" anything, even the questions like "If God is almighty, can it Kill itself" It is killing (and creating) itself all the time...  (and you don't need to call it God, it will "do" its own "thing" anyway...) 

It is simply this desperate attempt to describe those insights in a language of the mind - a message from a realm of no (particular) mind... It is impossible to do, not without "illogical" use of tautologies, approximations, symbolism, Zen koans, Discordian nonsense, dadaism, etc. 

So, while I am sure you have some gut reaction against some nonsense somewhere, some hint at misunderstanding, or something, you might look more into the "loop" you are creating for yourself with this "raw data" and "Truth"... 

I believe we can experience incredible things, all this is weirder than anything we can imagine or fantasize about, but at the same time we are part of it - we are It... Yet for some reason we have this separate existence, the discriminating mind and I am still curious about certain implications.

I don't fear death, which is fine, but I ask why is this living from point A to B or beeter - B(irth) do D(eath. Is it really the aim of the Universe to experience itself? But why all this very detailed construction... Just look outside. I have a garden... All those interconnected details - soil, the organisms in it, microbes, worms, moles, bugs, etc. then grass and trees in symbiosis with the mycelium that connects it all, the animals, neighbours with all their stories, careers, schools, picnics, friends, histories, family trees, illnesses, etc., other houses with all the electric installations, plumbing systems, kitchens, electronic devices, curtains, atmosphere, clouds, the Moon, stars, other planets, galaxies... All just in and outside of my yard... How can you not wonder? Why go to all this fine details? And beyond it - the layer of molecules, atoms, DNA, quantum forces, information, pure light...
A lot of "raw data".

Yes, we have not "arrived", yet. Maybe we never will, but it's a journey. So I choose to experience things, in whatever way they are, illusory or not, maybe I interpret them "wrong", etc. and also to listen to fellow humans, their stories, whether they are "me" or not!  I think solipsism is a big trick one might fall in - a nice article that might interest you: https://elizabeth-reninger.com/solipsism-advaita/  

My advice to myself that I speak aloud - Forget the Absolute Truth and EXPERIENCE Life!  Love, create, bring joy and wonder to the world! It is Truth in Revealing itself in every moment, anyway.  

Edited February 6, 2021 by Jodo

[Someone here]

@Endangered-EGO @VeganAwake @Jodo  

More or less.... It doesn't take much intelligence to recognize that direct experience is all you ever Had and all you ever will have of reality.  

Make the distinction between the sensation of your hands? and all your thoughts and concepts (including spiritual concepts ).  It's not hard to make. You can do it. 

Actual reality only comes to you through direct experience.    Looking at your hand and thinking about your hand are two different things.  One is sense.. one is thought. 

What we gotta get clear about is what is real and what is belief.  If you close your eyelids.. your house disappears from your senses right?  But you still believe the house exists.  But see.. your belief at that point is a concept.. not sensed ..right? That's what it means that your house disappears when you are not conscious of it .  Technically what disappeared is your visuals of the house.  Your belief that the house is more than that is not in the house but in your head.  And those beliefs may persist when you close your eyes.. but your reality of the house.. The visuals have vanished.  See the difference here?  What  I'm trying to show to you is how much of your reality is actually conceptual instead of literal.  When you become more mindful of this.. You can start to see that many beliefs you have about what is real and true are in fact false beliefs.  Your visual of your house is not your concept of your house.  Often times we take the conceptual house and think that that is what is real.  No.. technically what is real is your thought as something sensed and the visuals of the house.  The thought-story (the meaning of the thought sensed) is not real.. Yet that is what unenlightened people take to be most real.  

 

[Dancer]

22 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Endangered-EGO @VeganAwake @Jodo  

More or less.... It doesn't take much intelligence to recognize that direct experience is all you ever Had and all you ever will have of reality. 

 

It does not take much intelligence to realize that truth lies beyond direct experience.

Even a human can do it. And their intelligence is very limited.

You can't remove memory from yourself.

Memory is an inherent component of you.

What happens when you remove memory from yourself?

[Someone here]

8 minutes ago, Dancer said:

It does not take much intelligence to realize that truth lies beyond direct experience.

Even a human can do it. And their intelligence is very limited.

You can't remove memory from yourself.

Memory is an inherent component of you.

What happens when you remove memory from yourself?

I answered this point. 

It's not that I'm denying memories...or the past.. Or other beings.. Or atoms and molecules.. Or galaxies etc... Because all these things you have no direct experience of In the present moment....I'm NOT denying these things..... 

I'm making a clear distinction between what is undeniably True And certain and what isn't... The only thing that is certain is your direct experience. Anything else is beliefs. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Someone here

[Forestluv]

9 hours ago, PureRogueQ said:

connect on what? 

Understanding

[Dancer]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

I'm making a clear distinction between what is undeniably True And certain and what isn't... The only thing that is certain is your direct experience. Anything els is beliefs by defintion. 

Is there nothing else you are certain about thanks to your memory?

 

[Someone here]

13 minutes ago, Dancer said:

Is there nothing else you are certain about thanks to your memory?

 

Nope. Direct experience is certain. Memory isn't.  Neither is an external material objective world. You are intelligent enough to see that I'm not saying solipsism here.. I'm saying "it's not certain" that existence is an objective medium and not just figment of your consciousness. Like a dream. 

One cannot validate or invalidate the existence of that which supposedly exists outside one's own subjective experience. For example you can't prove that the past really happened.. You can't prove that history happened... Yeah you moan all you want about history but you cannot prove it. All you have is a present moment.

Heard of simulation theory argument? 

  You can't prove that you are not a brain in a vat..   Which is  an updated version of Rene Descartes's evil demon doubt. Common to many science fiction stories.. it presents a scenario in which a mad scientist.. machine.. or other entity might remove a person's brain from the body.. suspend it in a vat of life-sustaining liquid.. and connect its neurons by wires to a computer which would provide it with electrical impulses identical to those the brain normally receives.According to such stories.. the computer would then be simulating reality (including appropriate responses to the brain's own output) and the "disembodied" brain would continue to have perfectly normal conscious experiences.. such as those of a person with an embodied brain.. without these being related to objects or events in the real world. This is also similar to simulation theory. It's actually not possible to prove with 100 %certainty that we are not inside a video game right now that some teenagers are playing in a different universe.   All you can be certain of is your direct moment of experience. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Someone here

[Endangered-EGO]

@Someone here Why does everything have to be only about consciousness work? I agree, from the perspective of spiritual growth and ego, deconstructing reality to perceive the mystery of existence. On a relative level, consciousness work leads you nowhere within this life.

I am talking more philosophy than consciousness work. I agree that everything I believe about stuff I don't perceive are just imaginary, and not direct perception. Throwing everything we believe to know away in order to have a glimpse at the nature of consciousness is a means to an end. The end being recognition of the self. However that's just one aspect of life. Post awakening, what do you do? You are experiencing this incarnation, realising that ego builds an interpretation of reality and being able to see through it is good. But that's not all there is to life. Maybe philosophy leads nowhere, but it's still important imo to understand every possible worldview and philosophy, for the sake of the world and people. Consciousness work has it's limit in this world.

[VeganAwake]

29 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

realising that ego builds an interpretation of reality and being able to see through it is good.

?

The separate sense of self places an overlay of meaning purpose and value over top of reality and operates from that perspective/dream story.

There's nothing right or wrong with it that's just the case.

So reality is an empty happening and then along comes the conditioned sense of self which creates a story out of this empty happening placing meaning purpose and value on to everything and operating from the self centered view. 

Again there's nothing right or wrong with it that just seems to be the case ❤

 

[Someone here]

45 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

Why does everything have to be only about consciousness work?

I never said that. You can play video games all day long. And that's about as enlightened as you can get.  God doesn't give a F. 

46 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

Post awakening, what do you do? 

You finally can be happy. Consider that if you are not happy in life.. That's because you are not Conscious of Truth. 

[Nahm]

9 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Conscious of Truth. 

Impossible. ?

[Someone here]

@Nahm except it is possible. I have done it. 

[Nahm]

13 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Nahm except it is possible. I have done it. 

That’s what “ego” points to. The separate of truth, conscious of truth, ‘self’. The “doer”of a past which has done it. Absolute=perception, rather than ‘or’.