Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) So I'm advocating that direct experience is the one and only source of Truth. And anything that you have no direct experience of is horseshit (at least for you.. Maybe others have direct experience of it. And maybe you will too... Later on ). I just wanna tackle the objection of "perception". A common objection against direct experience being the only source of certain knowledge about the world is.... "But Leo.(?.) .. Direct experience is just" perception" . We are not experiencing the" real world "as it is. "the thing in itself" as Kant calls it. We are merely experiencing a filtered "copy" of the real world via the senses. For example.. Our eyes.. They don't show us the raw vibrations that are the real reality.. Instead... They show us colors. And color is not a third person objective thing. It's subjectively shaped by our perceptual system. And since different creatures have different perceptual systems.. Different creatures can see different colors from the same object. For example.. A person with color blindness might see a yellow object to be green or orange " Answer : Take a very close look at your direct experience of sight... the eye is not seeing... it is just 'eyeing'. It is the appearance of an eye. In other words.. The experience of" eyes" is not the experience of "sight". You experience "eyes" as a separate experience into itself. And you experience "sight" as a separate experience into itself. All you can say for certain is that there is a correlation between the experience of eyes and the experience of sight more than it Is with your ears for example. But notice that's not the same things as "I see through the eyes" As one looks into someone's eyes.. one is looking at an image. Behind the image and within it are nothing. The image has no 'behind' or 'within'.. any more than the image in an 'apparent nightly dream' has a 'behind' or 'within'. There is no 'spark' or 'focal point' or 'bit' of consciousness in.. or associated with the image seen. One is wholly present. One is not divided into 'bits' or 'loci' or any other differentiators. seeing is an appearance. Eyes are a different appearance. The eyes don't see. You have no experience of the eyes seeing anything. They are distinctions happening within consciousness.the visual field is occurring exactly where is it occurring. It is not occurring in your eyes lmao . Or in your so called brain. It is occurring exactly where it is occurring. Just like the 'dream world' at night.. It appears as if the dream character's eyes are seeing the dream world. But actually it's consciousness who is appearing as eyes.. As sight.. As world. P. S. that being said... I have no specific answer to the color blindness objection thing. Edited February 5, 2021 by Someone here my mind is gone to a better place. I'm elevated ..going out of space . And I'm gone . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 Would one objection to perception be: how can something be Truth if it's always changing? 57% paranoid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 36 minutes ago, Someone here said: I have no specific answer to the color blindness objection thing. @Someone here What is the objection? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, LastThursday said: Would one objection to perception be: how can something be Truth if it's always changing? Where is the fault? The Truth IS that everything is constantly fluctuating. As experienced. 7 minutes ago, Tim R said: @Someone here What is the objection? A person with Color blindness might see a green object to be yellow and so forth.. So how can direct experience be absolutely true if it's subjective and depends on the observer? Edited February 5, 2021 by Someone here my mind is gone to a better place. I'm elevated ..going out of space . And I'm gone . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 10 minutes ago, LastThursday said: Would one objection to perception be: how can something be Truth if it's always changing? Because it is what is. What did the stage orange scientist call the stage blue fundamentalist for claiming YHWH intentionally caused Noah’s great flood? Delugional. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Someone here said: Where is the fault? The Truth IS that everything is constantly fluctuating. As experienced. Ah, one level of indirection, I like it. So perception itself isn't Truth, just the fact that it's constantly changing? 57% paranoid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 @LastThursday 3 minutes ago, LastThursday said: Ah, one level of indirection, I like it. So perception itself isn't Truth, just the fact that it's constantly changing? It's pretty simply.. .. Everything you are experiencing directly is Truth and can't be anything else. Why? Cuz hey.. There is ONLY direct experience in direct experience. Is the content of experience changing?? Yeah it is... Well then that is the Truth that you are experiencing. my mind is gone to a better place. I'm elevated ..going out of space . And I'm gone . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Someone here said: It's pretty simply.. .. Everything you are experiencing directly is Truth and can't be anything else. Why? Cuz hey.. There is ONLY direct experience in direct experience. Is the content of experience changing?? Yeah it is... Well then that is the Truth that you are experiencing. Ok, so Direct Experience is an indivisible whole? And in being such an unchanging unity it is therefore Truth? (Two levels of indirection). The fact that it changes constantly is simply an unchanging attribute of DE? 57% paranoid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 @Someone here The color blindness thing - This has nothing against absolute truth. Absolute truth is what is, and what is is what is experienced directly. It matters not if what is seen is different for two people when it comes to this. The Buddha never raved about direct experience to then say if it doesn’t align with MY direct experience you’re wrong. Going beyond this objection can be done by recognizing that even if every being perceived the same thing it would not make it any more true than if every being perceived different things. In your direct experience, there are not other beings. In your “direct” INTERPRETATION, there are other beings. You’re literally everything. Not in the sense that you are some consciousness that sees through every being’s eyes at once necessarily, but in the sense that all that exists is what is held within consciousness. This is the unchanging truth. There’s no my consciousness and your consciousness. There’s just consciousness. What did the stage orange scientist call the stage blue fundamentalist for claiming YHWH intentionally caused Noah’s great flood? Delugional. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) 45 minutes ago, LastThursday said: Ok, so Direct Experience is an indivisible whole? And in being such an unchanging unity it is therefore Truth? (Two levels of indirection). The fact that it changes constantly is simply an unchanging attribute of DE? The unchanging Truth is that all there is is experience/awareness/consciousness. This experience/awareness/consciousness changes constantly which is the Truth of impermanence. Without impermanence, infinity is impossible. God’s permanent nature is impermanence. This is true because God is not an identity. GOD IS. Period. Done. YOU ARE. Period. Done. GOD IS = YOU ARE. Human you will wither away within YOU. Even if the flesh and bone deification of “God” exists and controls phenomena in any way he wants as a seemingly separate being in your direct experience, you have to realize that YOU are the actual and only GOD that can ever exist. The deity is an aspect of your experience, if you even ever experience such a thing. The Buddha himself had direct experience of devas/deities, but he realized that deities are NEVER actual GOD. So did my human ego about a month ago. What YOU are creates any deities, ghosts, deformed and decapitated midgets singing with the voice of Elvis Presley, etc. that is experienced as well as it creates the non-experience of all of those things at given times. YOU are the totality of everything experienced always, but recognize that YOU are not experiencing multiple consciousnesses. Multiple consciousnesses are LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE. CONSCIOUSNESS IS ALWAYS ONE NO MATTER IF IT SEES THROUGH THE EYES OF MULTIPLE BEINGS AT ONCE OR SEES A COMPLETELY BLACK SCREEN WITH NO SENSATIONS. Many Buddhists say there is no God. It doesn’t matter. What they are perpetually swimming in is GOD for ETERNITY. They simply might not call it GOD, but the good ones will see there is no difference between calling it GOD or nothing or NOTHINGNESS or any other label you can put on it. TRUTH = GOD = YOU = WHAT IS DIRECTLY EXPERIENCED IN THE PRESENT MOMENT. Edited February 5, 2021 by BipolarGrowth What did the stage orange scientist call the stage blue fundamentalist for claiming YHWH intentionally caused Noah’s great flood? Delugional. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 5 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said: God’s permanent nature is impermanence. Bingo. Only permanence can be Truth. 57% paranoid Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 This would be dismissing the mind in how things appear to be but then using it again in a malignant way. If you don't interject the mind in the equation you can't say anything at all. No direct experience and no anything else. But since you are using the mind to make conclusions at least consider the obvious correlation between subject and object. If everything was either a subject or an object the mind couldn't exist. But there is a mind or a consciousness or a perception that is occurring. This perception is entangled with the unperceived reality and they affect each other. To say that there is no unperceived reality is to say that there is no direct experience in the first place. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) We say life is a dream and then get mad at dream characters. And then we say but oh, it has dadada. I think we are as messed up as everyone on the planet. Stuck in our own dogmas. This can be the destiny. We are just terrible at dreaming life as we want and we blame it on "others". A bottomless pit. All of us are frickin losers man. Edited February 5, 2021 by Vibroverse Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 1 hour ago, LastThursday said: Ah, one level of indirection, I like it. So perception itself isn't Truth, just the fact that it's constantly changing? No, no, no! None of what you think is Truth is Truth. And these kind of threads are hopelessly wrong. So wrong it takes too much time to explain how wrong they are. If you want to awaken, drop this nonsense. TRUTH IS EVERYTHING. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 1 hour ago, LastThursday said: Ok, so Direct Experience is an indivisible whole? And in being such an unchanging unity it is therefore Truth? (Two levels of indirection). The fact that it changes constantly is simply an unchanging attribute of DE? @LastThursday 1 hour ago, LastThursday said: Ah, one level of indirection, I like it. So perception itself isn't Truth, just the fact that it's constantly changing? Look ... I'm not doing philosophy here.. This is serious consciousness work... Do you want absolute Truth???. Take out your hand.. Look at it.. That's it.. The experience of your hands is absolutely True.. Here it is!! . .. While any conceptual knowledge is uncertain. Your precise direct experience is the only certain thing in existence. It's more certain than all science and all religions and all spirituality and all everything. my mind is gone to a better place. I'm elevated ..going out of space . And I'm gone . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: None of what you think is Truth is Truth. And these kind of threads are hopelessly wrong. So wrong it takes too much time to explain how wrong they are. Perhaps you could 'point' me where I got wrong. Since I don't disagree with "none of what you think is Truth is Truth". my mind is gone to a better place. I'm elevated ..going out of space . And I'm gone . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 You can't point to the Truth since Truth is everything. How can you point to EVERYTHING? You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) @Leo Gura I don't know about "EVERYTHING". For all I know.. This slice of experience that I'm having right now could be completely context-less... It could be floating in the middle of nowhere... If I can't see the back of my head right now then I can't be certain of it's Truth. Important point... I'm not saying there isn't anything outside of my precise experience at this precise moment... I'm saying the content of my own experience in this precise moment is sure more true (certain) than anything whatsoever. Edited February 5, 2021 by Someone here my mind is gone to a better place. I'm elevated ..going out of space . And I'm gone . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
