Posted February 6, 2021 @lmfao If I was a moderator, this place would have a lot less trouble makers. There’s a bucket list of people I would throw out of this forum. "Not believing your own thoughts, you’re free from the primal desire: the thought that reality should be different than it is. You realise the wordless, the unthinkable. You understand that any mystery is only what you yourself have created. In fact, there’s no mystery. Everything is as clear as day. It’s simple, because there really isn’t anything. There’s only the story appearing now. And not even that.” — Byron Katie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 6, 2021 (edited) Straight to the point: Edited February 6, 2021 by RedLine Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 6, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mason Riggle said: I ask rhetorically. Why am I here talking to myself? I suppose because that's exactly what I/God wants to be doing. If you ever wanna have a proper & meaningful conversation I’m here for ya! If you rather talk to yourself then have at it. Namaste my dear ?? ? Edited February 6, 2021 by Mannyb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 6, 2021 (edited) 54 minutes ago, RedLine said: Straight to the point: Lol Nice try you pretty little devils! ? ?? It’s akin to sayin’ stage yellow=turquoise, just transcend them both into nothing & btw “consciousness is impermanent” lol! Could you ever not be aware? How would you know? Ponder that. Go inquire ?? Careful with pseudo Advaita’s “there’s nothing here and nothing to do” type of rhetoric. Edited February 6, 2021 by Mannyb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 6, 2021 To create a false equivalency between Harris and Spira. They live in two different ballparks. Spira understands Harris' position. Harris does not understand Spira's. The key is to be in a position that understands all positions. Of course debating nonduality is pointless. But an unawakened person can't help debate this stuff endlessly. Spira isn't there to debate Harris. Spira is just using Harris' audience to spread nonduality. Meanwhile Harris thinks he is out-logicking Spira. Lord of Logick You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 6, 2021 (edited) @Leo Gura Yes! Because that “person” is based on the lack of understanding! I love the way you think! Funny how he bases his morality on seeking happiness and that being exactly what keeps him away from it. Edited February 6, 2021 by Mannyb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Mannyb said: If you ever wanna have a proper & meaningful conversation I’m here for ya! If you rather talk to yourself then have at it. Namaste my dear ?? ? What shall we talk about? If you and I are 'separate' from each other, that's materialism. If we're not, then I'm talking to myself. "I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 6, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said: What shall we talk about? If you and I are 'separate' from each other, that's materialism. If we're not, then I'm talking to myself. We are in this forum to interact we each other & have higher level conversations. What else? We share our being, yet we both have a finite mind-body and have lived distinct lives, distinct experiences, thus talking is interesting. You are oversimplifying things, I can talk to you (which is what I’m doing) & still know we aren’t 2 Life is a paradox, get used to it. We are both separate & one, it’s not materialism. Materialism is the belief in matter, something quite different. ?? Edited February 6, 2021 by Mannyb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 6, 2021 @Mannyb I think we mostly agree. There can only be a 'you' and a 'me', who exist materially, from a Materialist perspective. To even have an opinion about the conversation between Sam and Rupert, is to take Sam's position, that there is a real difference between Sam and Rupert which can matter. Either I am @Leo Gura, Sam, You, Rupert, God, Everything... or I am not. Or I'm neither/both. To assume I am not you, is duality. Agree? "I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 6, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said: @Mannyb I think we mostly agree. There can only be a 'you' and a 'me', who exist materially, from a Materialist perspective. To even have an opinion about the conversation between Sam and Rupert, is to take Sam's position, that there is a real difference between Sam and Rupert which can matter. Either I am @Leo Gura, Sam, You, Rupert, God, Everything... or I am not. Or I'm neither/both. To assume I am not you, is duality. Agree? Agreed, awareness has no opinion, I just love & am everything (including “you”). In order to converse I / we must make a concession to the belief in a subject/object duality, language’s limiting indeed. It’s been a lovely exchange, thank you!?? Edited February 6, 2021 by Mannyb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 6, 2021 I love you all (me) too! "I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Leo Gura said: Spira understands Harris' position. Harris does not understand Spira's. This reminds me. . . In one of your videos, you talked about how a mind contracted in a small map cannot zoom out to see the large map. Yet a mind that can see the large map can zoom into smaller maps within the large map. Yet it's often not enjoyable and they might not get all the details right. An example would be how Deepak Chopra sees a meta view of how science, energetics, mysticism etc are all inter-connected. Yet when he zooms into just science, sometimes he mis-speaks about scientific details. In the bigger picture, it doesn't really matter, yet at a zoomed in view and pure Orange scientist would be more precise. Would you say the same applies here? That Spira has a meta view and can understand Harris' opinion, yet Spira would probably get some details wrong In contrast, Harris is not able to zoom out and see a meta view. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Forestluv said: This reminds me. . . In one of your videos, you talked about how a mind contracted in a small map cannot zoom out to see the large map. Yet a mind that can see the large map can zoom into smaller maps within the large map. Yet it's often not enjoyable and they might not get all the details right. An example would be how Deepak Chopra sees a meta view of how science, energetics, mysticism etc are all inter-connected. Yet when he zooms into just science, sometimes he mis-speaks about scientific details. In the bigger picture, it doesn't really matter, yet at a zoomed in view and pure Orange scientist would be more precise. Would you say the same applies here? That Spira has a meta view and can understand Harris' opinion, yet Spira would probably get some details wrong In contrast, Harris is not able to zoom out and see a meta view. It is true that there are tradeoffs between a zoom in vs a zoomed out view. And yes, a scientist would have more technical details. But the scientist would still be wrong and limited in many ways. He wouldn't just be missing spiritual stuff, his science would be hindered too! In the case of Sam Harris he is simply wrong. He's got nothing over Spira. Spira's mind is superior, and if Spira decided to put it to use in some technical field he would do well and be more innovative thanks to his superior mental flexibility. Sam's mind is paradigm locked. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: Sam's mind is paradigm locked. This statement only has meaning in Sam's paradigm, where Sam has a mind, separate from 'that which is not Sam's mind'. It's like dreaming about Sam Harris and Rupert Spira, and declaring within that dream, that dream Sam Harris REALLY thinks the dream is real, but dream Rupert understands it's all a dream. Edited February 7, 2021 by Mason Riggle "I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) Sam's paradigm is that this all might be a dream, or imaginary, or real, and it doesn't matter which it is, unless it's real. For something to 'matter', is to operate from a 'materialist' paradigm. Edited February 7, 2021 by Mason Riggle "I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Mason Riggle said: For something to 'matter', is to operate from a 'materialist' paradigm. This is false. You might as well say, for something to matter it must operate from the Christian paradigm. You're giving Sam too much credit. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) @Leo Gura what is 'something' from any other paradigm than 'somethingness'? Who is 'Sam Harris' from any other paradigm than one in which Sam Harris is someone? Edited February 7, 2021 by Mason Riggle "I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7, 2021 @Mason Riggle Look, dude, you're way over complicating this. Sam Harris is simply stuck in materialism, rationalism, atheism, realism, dualism, and scientism. Don't get all weird about it. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) @Leo Gura I think you don't understand Harris' view as well as you think. His point is not that complicated. 'Outside' the paradigm of 'materialism' there is no Sam Harris, materially, who has a paradigm. If you think Sam Harris is a material person with material brain who has a paradigm from which he operates, this is only true from the materialist (or dualist) paradigm. Edited February 7, 2021 by Mason Riggle "I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7, 2021 @Leo Gura as you once said, the real mind fuck is when you find out the Map IS the Territory. Imaginary, real.. no different. Ta da! "I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
