Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Leo Gura said: Hence why I stress that there are many degrees of awakening. Otherwise you get stuff like this. From the pov of awareness, which is the only real 1, only 1 of them is truly awake From the POV of a so called “person” Sam is the only one awake, but can we really say one is awake if identifying with an actual dreamed up character? ?? My point being that there are degrees of awakening until the only real awakening @Leo Gura is right in saying Sam is not awake! @Preety_India Mind is from a 1st person POV what brain is from the third person. The same way reality relates to God’s ♾ mind, from our pov it’s the waking state! Edited February 5, 2021 by Mannyb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 omg, another "chick fight" im HERE for it! THE DRAMA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 16 minutes ago, Ry4n said: um...... ?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 I have to say, as someone who ,,read and listened" a lot about non-duality, and who had some small awakenings Sam sounds right... His arguments are mine also, I put them here on this forum many times, and nobody ever could explain it or disprove me... Now do i think non duality or leo is wrong... Not really, but i can say one thing for sure... youre not able to explain it to people like me and to convince me of the ,,non dual" claims or ,,truths" In fact, Sams arguments (or my personal objections) seem logically to disprove things or to split them (like a dead or person in coma, loses his conscioiusness, perception and everything but the outside world and processes still continue, separate from any kind of the deads person experience or consciousness)... Again to a materialist, or to a ,,normal common" human everybody fails to explain non duality (even Rupert when he gets pushed, and if I trully stay critical, and he is my favorite)... So not saying youre wrong, you just cant argue non duality with logic and appear right on this level, and i think Rupert failed (look at the comment under the youtube video)... So the best that you got, is the thing that first I have to experience it (on 5 meo or whatever) and that only then I and people could understand it... but still should it be still possible to explain it to every ,,normal" human so that the truth stays without a doubt and logical objections... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 29 minutes ago, RedLine said: I don't understand why Rupert Spyra says Consciousness is always present but at the same time he says he wasn't conscious during surgery. Isn't it contradictory? Can somebody explain it to me? Yes I can, my love. Awareness being the only thing, it’s always present. He meant that he didn’t have an experience of the surgery. His limited & finite mind / brain wasn’t awake during the surgery, hence not being aware of the surgery from the pov of a finite mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 "Whatever else consciousness may or may not be in physical terms, the difference between it and unconsciousness is first and foremost a matter of subjective experience. Either the lights are on, or they are not." - Sam Harris "To say that consciousness may only seem to exist is to admit its existence in full—for if things seem any way at all, that is consciousness. Even if I happen to be a brain in a vat at this moment—all my memories are false; all my perceptions are of a world that does not exist—the fact that I am having an experience is indisputable (to me, at least). This is all that is required for me (or any other conscious being) to fully establish the reality of consciousness. Consciousness is the one thing in this universe that cannot be an illusion." - Sam Harris "I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, Mannyb said: His limited & finite mind / brain wasn’t awake during the surgery, hence not being aware of the surgery from the pov of a finite mind. That distinction between the not awaken finite mind vs an hypothetical infinite mind always present is an intellectual construction you are making, it is not direct experience.. The fact is he wasn´t aware during surgey. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 11 minutes ago, Dino D said: I have to say, as someone who ,,read and listened" a lot about non-duality, and who had some small awakenings Sam sounds right... His arguments are mine also, I put them here on this forum many times, and nobody ever could explain it or disprove me... Now do i think non duality or leo is wrong... Not really, but i can say one thing for sure... youre not able to explain it to people like me and to convince me of the ,,non dual" claims or ,,truths" In fact, Sams arguments (or my personal objections) seem logically to disprove things or to split them (like a dead or person in coma, loses his conscioiusness, perception and everything but the outside world and processes still continue, separate from any kind of the deads person experience or consciousness)... Again to a materialist, or to a ,,normal common" human everybody fails to explain non duality (even Rupert when he gets pushed, and if I trully stay critical, and he is my favorite)... So not saying youre wrong, you just cant argue non duality with logic and appear right on this level, and i think Rupert failed (look at the comment under the youtube video)... So the best that you got, is the thing that first I have to experience it (on 5 meo or whatever) and that only then I and people could understand it... but still should it be still possible to explain it to every ,,normal" human so that the truth stays without a doubt and logical objections... You are implying that “persons” exist, in fact all you’ve ever experienced are only senses, perceptions and thoughts. The “persons” are just concepts your mind’s fabricated, so is time, space, and matter! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Dino D said: I have to say, as someone who ,,read and listened" a lot about non-duality, and who had some small awakenings Sam sounds right... His arguments are mine also, I put them here on this forum many times, and nobody ever could explain it or disprove me... Now do i think non duality or leo is wrong... Not really, but i can say one thing for sure... youre not able to explain it to people like me and to convince me of the ,,non dual" claims or ,,truths" In fact, Sams arguments (or my personal objections) seem logically to disprove things or to split them (like a dead or person in coma, loses his conscioiusness, perception and everything but the outside world and processes still continue, separate from any kind of the deads person experience or consciousness)... Again to a materialist, or to a ,,normal common" human everybody fails to explain non duality (even Rupert when he gets pushed, and if I trully stay critical, and he is my favorite)... So not saying youre wrong, you just cant argue non duality with logic and appear right on this level, and i think Rupert failed (look at the comment under the youtube video)... So the best that you got, is the thing that first I have to experience it (on 5 meo or whatever) and that only then I and people could understand it... but still should it be still possible to explain it to every ,,normal" human so that the truth stays without a doubt and logical objections... Thing is tho when you have a radical awakening there is no others. Even sam and rupert are a projection of your own mind. I know this sounds crazy and delusional but it is how it is experienced. At those level i know that this forum is a complete non existent phenomena and awareness alone IS. And when unconcious it is equal to , going to sleep then 1 second later your up. So there is a timeless gap. Thats why if you are concious now, you wont experience an unconcious state, it might be millions of years but to you just 1 second. And pure non existence does not exist and is an logical impossibility. So "you" will always have an experience in one way or another. And materialism doesent explain how mind and conciousness arises out of non alive and non sentient matter. And their whole paradigm builds on mind and conciousness but is obviously overlooking the fact. Logic and reason can easily show how you are immortal and have always been. Just different forms and lifes. And if all the universe is purely material, then the laws of nature is also material so where is it? In materialism you cant have invisible laws governing the universe. And where does those laws and orders come from? Edited February 5, 2021 by Adamq8 Let thy speech be better then silence, or be silent. - Pseudo-dionysius Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, RedLine said: That distinction between the not awaken finite mind vs an hypothetical infinite mind always present is an intellectual construction you are making, it is not direct experience.. The fact is he wasn´t aware during surgey. What you call hypothetical is all there is! All you’ve ever known is an infinite and eternal here and now, is it not? What’s hypothetical about it? Upon awakening you’ll have a first hand experience of all this being it, gods mind and infinite love. You imply Rupert is a person when you have not ever experienced such a thing. You only experience senses, thoughts & perceptions. Inquire more & see! ?? ❤️ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, Mannyb said: What you call hypothetical is all there is! All you’ve ever known is an infinite and eternal here and now, is it not? What’s hypothetical about it? Upon awakening you’ll have a first hand experience of all this being it, gods mind and infinite love. You imply Rupert is a person when you have not ever experienced such a thing. You only experience senses, thoughts & perceptions. Inquire more & see! ?? ❤️ You are the one who is making distinctions: finite mind vs infinite mind. You are saying that he wasn´t aware during surgery because he was in finite mind mode. What a metaphysical believe! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 11 hours ago, Nahm said: “Consciousness is the one thing in this universe that can not be an illusion.” -“Sam Harris” You're really good at picking diamonds out of a pile of turds. My Youtube Channel- Light on Earth “We dance round in a ring and suppose, but the Secret sits in the middle and knows.”― Robert Frost Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, RedLine said: You are the one who is making distinctions: finite mind vs infinite mind. You are saying that he wasn´t aware during surgery because he was in finite mind mode. What a metaphysical believe! There is no mode lol ? I’m saying that one seems to appear in the only existing one. It’s not finite vs infinite, rather one only ♾ thing seeming to become many. Look at your response, “you are the one” I’m you, you are me yet you pretend you don’t know it. Such answer stems from a belief in separation, your suffering does too btw. The biggest problem with materialism is that it’s the cause of suffering, as long as oneself believes to be separate in an unconscious universe made of matter, one sets oneself apart from one’s own infinite love! I totally get where you’re coming from and will always be there for you. When you ask for explanation be open to it, instead of debating. Notice how that’s your devil mind playing tricks on you. Edited February 5, 2021 by Mannyb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 20 minutes ago, mandyjw said: You're really good at picking diamonds out of a pile of turds. Thanks! Here's a few more treasures, sifted from the shit pile. "Lose your self in the moment" - Marshal Bruce Mathers III "One must forego the self to obtain total spiritual creaminess, and avoid the chewy chunks of degradation." - Ace Ventura, Pet Detective "I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 @Mason Riggle ? I guess it all depends on what you choose to focus on. Wisdom belongs to no one. The illusion of contrast is what makes it all so damn entertaining though. My Youtube Channel- Light on Earth “We dance round in a ring and suppose, but the Secret sits in the middle and knows.”― Robert Frost Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Mannyb said: You are implying that “persons” exist, in fact all you’ve ever experienced are only senses, perceptions and thoughts. The “persons” are just concepts your mind’s fabricated, so is time, space, and matter! In this world, the onlY relevance is not me. So if I didnt experience something IT DOES NOT MEAN IT DOES NOT EXIST. So i didnt experience you, or your room, but its there, youre there and it will be there if i die now... You will see it, live it, not me... Non duality derives conclusions from the first person experience like there is only that or like this is only relevant, and when someone says how does other stuff still happen then you answer jibberish... For me there is only my room, non dual conclusion would be: there is only my room,, the planet and univers does not exist, its all just my tought... Bla bla... This is so obviously wrong that debating it hurs me, and if it still is true, then ,,you people" obviously dont have the right tools to explain it or prove it to ,,normal" people, not evan close... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Dino D said: In this world, the onlY relevance is not me. So if I didnt experience something IT DOES NOT MEAN IT DOES NOT EXIST. So i didnt experience you, or your room, but its there, youre there and it will be there if i die now... You will see it, live it, not me... Non duality derives conclusions from the first person experience like there is only that or like this is only relevant, and when someone says how does other stuff still happen then you answer jibberish... For me there is only my room, non dual conclusion would be: there is only my room,, the planet and univers does not exist, its all just my tought... Bla bla... This is so obviously wrong that debating it hurs me, and if it still is true, then ,,you people" obviously dont have the right tools to explain it or prove it to ,,normal" people, not evan close... How could you know any of that is true? You start again by implying a world exists, when you never had such experience. Instead of making assumptions go to your experience! All you ever know is the knowing of your experience. Your whole life you’ve only known experience! Your claiming not to experience something is only a thought ? You only assume a world independent of you is out there, yet how could you possibly know that? It’s not “you people”, there are no people, so called people appear inside your mind! Edited February 5, 2021 by Mannyb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 9 hours ago, Leo Gura said: I could only stand to listen until 2:57, at which point Sam revealed the crux of his materialist delusion. The duality between mind and brain is one of the biggest delusions in this work. If you insist on believing that duality, you're fucked. You will never realize God. @Leo Gura @Ry4n You guys beat me - i couldn't stand to listen to it at all because i knew what was coming Wisdom. Truth. Love. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) "There are, of course, good reasons for scientists to be materialist, neo-Darwinian, and reductionist. However, science entails none of those commitments, nor do they entail one another. If there were evidence for dualism (immaterial souls, reincarnation), one could be a scientist without being a materialist. As it happens, the evidence here is extraordinarily thin, so virtually all scientists are materialists of some sort. If there were evidence against evolution by natural selection, one could be a scientific materialist without being a neo-Darwinist. But as it happens, the general framework put forward by Darwin is as well established as any other in science. If there were evidence that complex systems produced phenomena that cannot be understood in terms of their constituent parts, it would be possible to be a neo-Darwinist without being a reductionist. For all practical purposes, that is where most scientists find themselves, because every branch of science beyond physics must resort to concepts that cannot be understood merely in terms of particles and fields. Many of us have had “philosophical” debates about what to make of this explanatory impasse. Does the fact that we cannot predict the behavior of chickens or fledgling democracies on the basis of quantum mechanics mean that those higher-level phenomena are something other than their underlying physics? I would vote “no” here, but that doesn’t mean I envision a time when we will use only the nouns and verbs of physics to describe the world. But even if one thinks that the human mind is entirely the product of physics, the reality of consciousness becomes no less wondrous, and the difference between happiness and suffering no less important. Nor does such a view suggest that we will ever find the emergence of mind from matter fully intelligible; consciousness may always seem like a miracle. In philosophical circles, this is known as “the hard problem of consciousness”—some of us agree that this problem exists, some of us don’t. Should consciousness prove conceptually irreducible, remaining the mysterious ground for all we can conceivably experience or value, the rest of the scientific worldview would remain perfectly intact. The remedy for all this confusion is simple: We must abandon the idea that science is distinct from the rest of human rationality. When you are adhering to the highest standards of logic and evidence, you are thinking scientifically. And when you’re not, you’re not. " - Sam Harris "I quote John Lennon, 'I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me.' Good point there. After all, he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people.” - Ferris Bueller Edited February 5, 2021 by Mason Riggle "I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 @mandyjw Second nicest thing anyone has ever said to me. MEDITATIONS TOOLS ActualityOfBeing.com GUIDANCE SESSIONS NONDUALITY LOA My Youtube Channel THE TRUE NATURE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
