Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) I'm not enlightened, but I smell the pointlessness here. That's why self-reflection is important. Edited February 7, 2021 by Understander Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7, 2021 If you think there's a Sam Harris who doesn't 'get it', that only comes from a place of 'not getting it'. "I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, VeganAwake said: There was never an ocean either ❤ Nor a universe, which Sam believes in haha Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7, 2021 You guys are playing a game of language breakdown, is all. We can go in circles with this, but what's the point? If you've been awoke you know all these perspectives are as valid as the next one and mute at the same time. @Mason Riggle @Mannyb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7, 2021 9 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said: @Natasha 'you are not controlling the storm, and you are not lost in it, you ARE the storm' - Sam Harris. Does this sound like Harris doesn't grasp the concept of 'oneness'? This could mean a lot of different things. "You are the storm" could mean that the resistance to what is can cause a seemingly storm of suffering. ❤ “Everything is honoured, but nothing matters.” — Eckhart Tolle. "I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens. I've been knocking from the inside." -- Rumi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, Understander said: I'm not enlightened, but I smell the pointlessness here. That's why self-reflection is important. 4 minutes ago, Natasha said: You guys are playing a game of language breakdown, is all. We can go in circles with this, but what's the point? If you've been awoke you know all these perspectives are as valid as the next one and mute at the same time. @Mason Riggle @Mannyb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7, 2021 @Mannyb does he? 'Consciousness is the one thing that can not be an illusion' - Sam Harris 'I might be a brain in a vat' - Sam Harris I don't think he's committed to the notion that the Universe 'exists'. "I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7, 2021 1 minute ago, VeganAwake said: This could mean a lot of different things. "You are the storm" could mean that the resistance to what is can cause a seemingly storm of suffering. ❤ In which case Sam Harris’ finite mind would creating the storm that is him being a separate self in a world. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7, 2021 @Mannyb which is what we are all doing whenever we talk to 'each other'. "I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said: @Mannyb does he? 'Consciousness is the one thing that can not be an illusion' - Sam Harris 'I might be a brain in a vat' - Sam Harris I don't think he's committed to the notion that the Universe 'exists'. He’s not committed to the opposite either, and that is why ‘he’ suffers, because he believes in a him that would always have to be agnostic. Because science will never get to the end of it, it’s an infinite regress, there’s always a cause for something in his causality based paradigm that stems from his belief in time and space. Edited February 7, 2021 by Mannyb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said: @Mannyb which is what we are all doing whenever we talk to 'each other'. Not really, I’m talking to you whilst having integrated the knowing of our being. Not the case for Sam and almost all the other finite minds that think and feel themselves as an apparent separate self into existence inside a world of objects. Edited February 7, 2021 by Mannyb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Mannyb said: Not really, I’m talking to you whilst having integrated the knowing of our being. Not the case for Sam and almost all the other finite minds that think and feel themselves as an apparent separate self into existence. How can you have integrated 'oneness' and still believe there is a separate thing called 'Sam Harris'? 'finite minds' only exist when we don't know oneness. Edited February 7, 2021 by Mason Riggle "I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7, 2021 20 minutes ago, Natasha said: It's called going full circle - from Relative (self) --> Absolute ( Self) --> Relative (self integrated into Self). So you can move between the Absolute and the Relative with ease and with existential understanding of the (seemingly separate) wave being one and same as the ocean/water. No one goes full circle. Hence the saying "no one becomes enlightened" Which BTW seems to be much more rare than previously thought here. After Awakening both relative and absolute concepts of the self are recognized to be nothing more than a projection of a conditioned web of beliefs otherwise known as the Mind Matrix. It seems that Harris and spira are still both very disillusioned in ways that seem different but are essentially exactly the same. The Mindmatrix/ web of belief is a b**** to completely break free of and it's very rare. ❤ Awakening is the recognition that the individual simply never occurred/ snapping out of the Mind Matrix known as ME! “Everything is honoured, but nothing matters.” — Eckhart Tolle. "I have lived on the lip of insanity, wanting to know reasons, knocking on a door. It opens. I've been knocking from the inside." -- Rumi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said: How can you have integrated 'oneness' and still believe there is a separate thing called 'Sam Harris'? 'finite minds' only exist when we don't know oneness. Go tell that to Rupert or any non dual teacher. Namaste. Most of us “finite minds” here are telling you about the need to make concessions in order to speak. Imagine a master telling a seeker you don’t exist nor matter & proceeding to eliminate all his teaching, since a teaching implies a student. Edited February 7, 2021 by Mannyb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, VeganAwake said: Awakening is the recognition that the individual simply never occurred/ snapping out of the Mind Matrix known as ME! Which has never been done. Who, exactly would recognize this? "I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said: Which has never been done. Who, exactly would recognize this? Awareness would and does all the time. All it is the knowing of it. When your finite mind had it’s awakening, which wasn’t the same as mine, you awareness recognized yourself out of the apparent illusion. Edited February 7, 2021 by Mannyb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, Mannyb said: Go tell that to Rupert or any non dual teacher. Namaste. Most of us “finite minds” here are telling you about the need to make concessions in order to speak. Imagine a master telling a seeker you don’t exist nor matter and proceeding to eliminate all his teaching, since a teaching implies a student. Yes, consciousness must limit itself for there to even be 'something', rather than 'nothing/everything'. "I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7, 2021 18 minutes ago, VeganAwake said: No one goes full circle. Hence the saying "no one becomes enlightened" Which BTW seems to be much more rare than previously thought here. After Awakening both relative and absolute concepts of the self are recognized to be nothing more than a projection of a conditioned web of beliefs otherwise known as the Mind Matrix. It seems that Harris and spira are still both very disillusioned in ways that seem different but are essentially exactly the same. The Mindmatrix/ web of belief is a b**** to completely break free of and it's very rare. ❤ Awakening is the recognition that the individual simply never occurred/ snapping out of the Mind Matrix known as ME! Yes, it's a shift in perspective and any Self-realized being knows that. However we still use language/metaphors to communicate and deliver these perspectives, while fully knowing the existential reality. Illusion fighting the illusion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said: Yes, consciousness must limit itself for there to even be 'something', rather than 'nothing/everything'. Exactly and this is what our finite minds are, the contracting of consciousness in order to experience life. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) @Mannyb which again, is Sam's point. This 'limited' contraction (dualism, materialism) is the only paradigm in which this conversation ever 'matters'. Edited February 7, 2021 by Mason Riggle "I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
