Posted February 5, 2021 2 hours ago, Mannyb said: How could you know any of that is true? You start again by implying a world exists, when you never had such experience. Instead of making assumptions go to your experience! All you ever know is the knowing of your experience. Your whole life you’ve only known experience! Your claiming not to experience something is only a thought ? You only assume a world independent of you is out there, yet how could you possibly know that? It’s not “you people”, there are no people, so called people appear inside your mind! Insted of going to your experience go to... Logic, facts, thinking, science, observarion, to other people... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 @Leo Gura can you elaborate the relative distinction between Conciousness vs Awareness (Awareness as being self aware conciousness). Related to what @Moksha said in the first page of the topic. I'm confused. Thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 (edited) @Dino D logic, science and thinking are only possible through experience lol, which are just human constructs. experience doesn't need science to be real, truth doesn't need facts or logic to be truth. No one can observe an external world, only their direct experience which they can make stories about as much as they like. 'External world' is just a concept, direct experience isn't. People invented the concept of an external world for pragmatic purposes. Other people, logic , reason etc are just fabrications of your own mind that you use to convince yourself that they are not fabrications of your own mind lol and that they are somehow given which is ludicrous. If there was no mind , none of these things would exist, but you seem very insistent that they are. You will never get anywhere trying to defend these man made concepts. You are trying to convince yourself more than anyone else or you wouldn't keep repeating the same rationalist ideas ad nauseam. You aren't actually listening to anyone, you are just trying to spread your mind virus which you identify with, otherwise you wouldn't keep answering with another 100 answers every time someone tries to show you something new. Actually spend a few days contemplating what someone has said rather than feeling the need to respond impulsively so that you can feel that you're right, which is all people like you care about doing. You aren't comfortable with entertaining anything other than what you know, so you double down on the same arguments that any person off the street would come up with if they hear anything which goes against their rationalist dogmas they learnt at school. The point of this forum is to help people move beyond this thinking and not cling to it like a scared child, which is how you are acting, otherwise you are in the wrong place Edited February 5, 2021 by ConsciousOwl10 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 The sugery never happened. It is imagianry. And so it Rupert Spira. Sam Harris is arguing with himself. And so are you. Ta-da! You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Leo Gura said: Sam Harris is arguing with himself. And so are you. So I can stop caring about politics now too? My Youtube Channel- Light on Earth “We dance round in a ring and suppose, but the Secret sits in the middle and knows.”― Robert Frost Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 14 hours ago, Space said: For anyone else who doesn't know, you can access all of Sam's podcasts for free. @Space I tried going to this link, but it said I needed to subscribe to a paid monthly membership to access it. Is there another location or way to listen to it for free? "Just a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down" -- Marry Poppins Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 Perhaps Sam Harris will be slightly more conscious of his doublethink through these discussions about consciousness. But I wouldn't be surprised if it made no difference to him, because he shows himself to be so unbelievably dense and fixed sometimes Hark ye yet again — the little lower layer. All visible objects, man, are but as pasteboard masks. But in each event — in the living act, the undoubted deed — there, some unknown but still reasoning thing puts forth the mouldings of its features from behind the unreasoning mask. If man will strike, strike through the mask! How can the prisoner reach outside except by thrusting through the wall? To me, the white whale is that wall, shoved near to me. Sometimes I think there's naught beyond. But 'tis enough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 5, 2021 @lmfao It’s a bit bizarre to see that everything he’s said though out his career has been through the lens of materialism. Not that there’s anything wrong with it, but it’s rather revealing. Money, notoriety, prestige perhaps, yet never for the message, never in truth. Weird. MEDITATIONS TOOLS ActualityOfBeing.com GUIDANCE SESSIONS NONDUALITY LOA My Youtube Channel THE TRUE NATURE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 6, 2021 28 minutes ago, mandyjw said: So I can stop caring about politics now too? Response uploading...hopefully Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 6, 2021 @Natasha My Youtube Channel- Light on Earth “We dance round in a ring and suppose, but the Secret sits in the middle and knows.”― Robert Frost Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 6, 2021 11 hours ago, Air said: But that is prone to delusion due to the fact that such experiences can only occur from within the human experience. It's not epistemologically correct to assume that consciousness is a fundamental feature when you're already a conscious human being, it could be simply all a projection from your current human experience, for example there is no conscious experience for a coffee table. If you're going to claim that inanimate objects are also conscious that again is prone to the human experience bias. Therefore the most epistemologically correct position is agnosticism, similar to Sam's, even though I'm not sure he gets this nuance. What is 'the human experience'? Where is it? What is it made of? Can you show me? Can you bite your own teeth? -- “What a caterpillar calls the end of the world we call a butterfly.” Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 6, 2021 12 hours ago, Joel3102 said: I subscribed to Sam Harris just to check out the Jim Newman episode... That was fun. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 6, 2021 On 2/5/2021 at 0:00 AM, mandyjw said: So someone in the comments is saying that Sam Harris talked with Jim Newman but you have to subscribe to Sam Harris' thingy to hear it. I bet it's a riot. You can get a free trial or even ask to not pay. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 6, 2021 2 hours ago, mandyjw said: So I can stop caring about politics now too? Why are you asking us what you can and can’t do? That’s your choice, not ours. "Not believing your own thoughts, you’re free from the primal desire: the thought that reality should be different than it is. You realise the wordless, the unthinkable. You understand that any mystery is only what you yourself have created. In fact, there’s no mystery. Everything is as clear as day. It’s simple, because there really isn’t anything. There’s only the story appearing now. And not even that.” — Byron Katie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 6, 2021 9 hours ago, Matt23 said: @Space I tried going to this link, but it said I needed to subscribe to a paid monthly membership to access it. Is there another location or way to listen to it for free? If you find where it says 'Can’t afford a subscription? Contact us'. Click on contact and follow the instructions. "Find what you love and let it kill you." - Charles Bukowski Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 6, 2021 11 hours ago, ConsciousOwl10 said: @Dino D logic, science and thinking are only possible through experience lol, which are just human constructs. experience doesn't need science to be real, truth doesn't need facts or logic to be truth. No one can observe an external world, only their direct experience which they can make stories about as much as they like. 'External world' is just a concept, direct experience isn't. People invented the concept of an external world for pragmatic purposes. Other people, logic , reason etc are just fabrications of your own mind that you use to convince yourself that they are not fabrications of your own mind lol and that they are somehow given which is ludicrous. If there was no mind , none of these things would exist, but you seem very insistent that they are. You will never get anywhere trying to defend these man made concepts. You are trying to convince yourself more than anyone else or you wouldn't keep repeating the same rationalist ideas ad nauseam. You aren't actually listening to anyone, you are just trying to spread your mind virus which you identify with, otherwise you wouldn't keep answering with another 100 answers every time someone tries to show you something new. Actually spend a few days contemplating what someone has said rather than feeling the need to respond impulsively so that you can feel that you're right, which is all people like you care about doing. You aren't comfortable with entertaining anything other than what you know, so you double down on the same arguments that any person off the street would come up with if they hear anything which goes against their rationalist dogmas they learnt at school. The point of this forum is to help people move beyond this thinking and not cling to it like a scared child, which is how you are acting, otherwise you are in the wrong place No one can observe an external world, only their direct experience which they can make stories about as much as they like. ( I dont observe your room, it's there for you, not for me, so there are two direct experiences... your experience is external from mine and i cant access it, so our consciousness is not the same, if it would be the same then I would be omniconscious or omni aware) that you use to convince yourself that they are not fabrications of your own mind ( you use your own mind and experience to deny other peoples experience and things that we call facts and that we can prove and explain, you forcefully annihilate everything with your first person experience, and you put your experience as an absolute, as God as DOGMA, but it isnt, because when youre dead everything else happens, and we can take videos of it, and what not, and you can not make one thing without our rules, or can you become a plane and fly me to asia? only in your dreams and never in your God reality whitch you cant change one thing (without work, doing or human activities) and where you dont control anything) You aren't actually listening to anyone- youre also not, youre giving answers with no seanse or logic, and that can easily be disputed... maybe youre even right, but your arguments are false... han feeling the need to respond impulsively so that you can feel that you're right, which is all people like you care about doing-same for you, and what if im right, then I should contemplate until I agree with you, only then i can be right or what... this is not personal men... You aren't comfortable with entertaining anything other than what you know,- I am, I said non dulaity can be true, I didnt experience 5 meo, so I'm opet 4 everything, but you cant explain it to me right now, and the fact that I dont get it, and that sam hariss or anyone else relevant doesn't get it (and those people are so much smatter then you and me) applies that your explanations and arguments are bad or wrong)... arguments that any person off the street would come up with if they hear anything which goes against their rationalist dogmas they learnt at school- why are yours arguments (not you, this whole forum) so bad and easily overthrown with logic and examples... it just doesnt make sense what you talk, look at it with a truly open mind... i observe the room, yes my brain renders it, then i see what i see, telling the room isnt there because i see the rendered version, and to claim the only truth is my rendered version or experience is wrong... because you see your room, you have your experience, THAT I DONT HAVE, so there is something other or external, being it matter, or just other experiences or other consciousness... your anallogy makes no seanse... its like if a camera would speak and it would say there are no world (cars, threes) there are only photos in camera memory.. for the dogmatic ony first person beliving camera this is her truth... but i know for shure that her first person digital photo of the world is the illusion and the world is outside, there is something outside of the cameras digital experience, there is not just the photo of the car (that is actually fake) there is the car that is real (or hologram or whatever, but there are two camera, digital photo in camera memory, car, its not just the cameras memory witch non dualist put as dogma, the camera memory is here your memory or aware experience, youre dogmatic)... non duality is like a DOGMATIC camera if you get me... and I'm open for being something else, but you should be able to explain it without a doubt, to prove it and so on... non duality is the only one that says, i can't prove it, i dont have any mechanisms, take 5 meo dmt, i cant fly, everything is a dream bla bla bla, and on questions on sleep, death, other person experiences, who controls and creats all of this, how, with wich will, HOW DO YOU DO THAT, and so on... you can't answer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 6, 2021 20 hours ago, Joel3102 said: I subscribed to Sam Harris just to check out the Jim Newman episode... I felt some curiosity to that episode. Do you care to explain a bit how that episode went? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 6, 2021 10 hours ago, How to be wise said: Why are you asking us what you can and can’t do? That’s your choice, not ours. I'm not, I was just being a pain in the ass. My Youtube Channel- Light on Earth “We dance round in a ring and suppose, but the Secret sits in the middle and knows.”― Robert Frost Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 6, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Dino D said: No one can observe an external world, only their direct experience which they can make stories about as much as they like. ( I dont observe your room, it's there for you, not for me, so there are two direct experiences... your experience is external from mine and i cant access it, so our consciousness is not the same, if it would be the same then I would be omniconscious or omni aware) that you use to convince yourself that they are not fabrications of your own mind ( you use your own mind and experience to deny other peoples experience and things that we call facts and that we can prove and explain, you forcefully annihilate everything with your first person experience, and you put your experience as an absolute, as God as DOGMA, but it isnt, because when youre dead everything else happens, and we can take videos of it, and what not, and you can not make one thing without our rules, or can you become a plane and fly me to asia? only in your dreams and never in your God reality whitch you cant change one thing (without work, doing or human activities) and where you dont control anything) You aren't actually listening to anyone- youre also not, youre giving answers with no seanse or logic, and that can easily be disputed... maybe youre even right, but your arguments are false... han feeling the need to respond impulsively so that you can feel that you're right, which is all people like you care about doing-same for you, and what if im right, then I should contemplate until I agree with you, only then i can be right or what... this is not personal men... You aren't comfortable with entertaining anything other than what you know,- I am, I said non dulaity can be true, I didnt experience 5 meo, so I'm opet 4 everything, but you cant explain it to me right now, and the fact that I dont get it, and that sam hariss or anyone else relevant doesn't get it (and those people are so much smatter then you and me) applies that your explanations and arguments are bad or wrong)... arguments that any person off the street would come up with if they hear anything which goes against their rationalist dogmas they learnt at school- why are yours arguments (not you, this whole forum) so bad and easily overthrown with logic and examples... it just doesnt make sense what you talk, look at it with a truly open mind... i observe the room, yes my brain renders it, then i see what i see, telling the room isnt there because i see the rendered version, and to claim the only truth is my rendered version or experience is wrong... because you see your room, you have your experience, THAT I DONT HAVE, so there is something other or external, being it matter, or just other experiences or other consciousness... your anallogy makes no seanse... its like if a camera would speak and it would say there are no world (cars, threes) there are only photos in camera memory.. for the dogmatic ony first person beliving camera this is her truth... but i know for shure that her first person digital photo of the world is the illusion and the world is outside, there is something outside of the cameras digital experience, there is not just the photo of the car (that is actually fake) there is the car that is real (or hologram or whatever, but there are two camera, digital photo in camera memory, car, its not just the cameras memory witch non dualist put as dogma, the camera memory is here your memory or aware experience, youre dogmatic)... non duality is like a DOGMATIC camera if you get me... and I'm open for being something else, but you should be able to explain it without a doubt, to prove it and so on... non duality is the only one that says, i can't prove it, i dont have any mechanisms, take 5 meo dmt, i cant fly, everything is a dream bla bla bla, and on questions on sleep, death, other person experiences, who controls and creats all of this, how, with wich will, HOW DO YOU DO THAT, and so on... you can't answer My dear. I’ll be here for you when you’re ready, don’t worry. In the meantime, read as much as you can about Rupert, the direct path and the non dual teachings, watch the videos, do the practice, meditate, and be TRULY open. The right arguments were given, & yet you won’t listen. May you awaken soon my beloved. Namaste ?? Edited February 6, 2021 by Mannyb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted February 6, 2021 Is Sam Harris really a Materialist, or is 'Sam Harris, materialist' being imagined by you, God. Could he 'be' any other way than how you, God, imagine him to be? Does this comment occur, materially, anywhere other than 'within awareness'? If 'imaginary reality' is indistinguishable from 'real reality', does it matter which is happening? "I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
