Rupert Spira on Sam Harris Podcast

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Joel3102 said:

Sam’s position is that we don’t know whether idealism or materialism is true

That is a dogma.

Sam Harris is not awake. And of course he cannot admit this to his audience as it would discredit and embarrass him and shake their materialist, rationalist worldview. So he plays these games and fools him audience along with him. They have no clue how wrong his epistemology and metaphysics is.

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Preety_India said:

How can mind and brain be same?

Everything is the same, silly.

You are Sam Harris. But good luck telling him that.

[Air]

44 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

And our point is that Sam is God.

Lol

The mistake Sam is making is that he's actually KNOWING that we cannot know. This is not not-knowing, this is knowing. And false knowing at that. If he truly didn't know he would be open to the idea that he could definitively know that materialism is false. But he believes this to be impossible, which is just a lack of imagination on his part.

Sam confuses his inability to imagine how one could know whether idealism or materialism is true with the actual ability to do so. Just because he can't imagine it, doesn't mean it cannot be done. Classic epistemic mistake.

But maybe it is over imagination on your side. Case in point you're speaking for him as if you can know his level of understanding but maybe all of this is just your imagination and he realises his godhood in different labels.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Air

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Air said:

But maybe it is over imagination on your side. Case in point you're speaking for him as if you can know his level of understanding but maybe all of this is just your imagination and he realises his godhood in different labels.

Hahaha

[Nahm]

? 

[Air]

@Leo Gura Why are you laughing? God is not conscious on the most fundamental level, it's empty. Consciousness is second order to Emptiness. Emptiness then becomes aware and that creates the conscious experience.

So Sam is actually correct for not buying into idealism because it's not the ultimate truth but just a conceptual construct of truth. And it's on the same level as materialism so there's no hierarchical order of truthfulness between the two.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Air

[Ry4n]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I could only stand to listen until 2:57, at which point Sam revealed the crux of his materialist delusion.

The duality between mind and brain is one of the biggest delusions in this work. If you insist on believing that duality, you're fucked. You will never realize God.

As a big fan of Sam I gotta agree, it was almost laughable, never realising that Non-duality is pointing to the context of reality rather than the contents within it which is the only thing that science can and ever will truly grasp. 

[Vibroverse]

1 minute ago, Ry4n said:

As a big fan of Sam I gotta agree, it was almost laughable, never realising that Non-duality is pointing to the context of reality rather than the contents within it which is the only thing that science can and ever will truly grasp. 

Not even that, I guess. It only has some of the contents, amongst infinity, grasped. 

[Ry4n]

20 minutes ago, Air said:

@Leo Gura Why are you laughing? God is not conscious on the most fundamental level, it's empty. Consciousness is second order to Emptiness. Emptiness then becomes aware and that creates the conscious experience.

So Sam is actually correct for not buying into idealism because it's not the ultimate truth but just a conceptual construct of truth.

Not only is God, Consciousness and emptiness all one and the same (even if the experience of these facets may vary) but it's also inherently self aware and self loving. Emptiness itself can be totally self aware without an illusionary observer experiencing it. But..... none of this will fly if one hasn't experienced it, so experience it for yourself and if you can come to another conclusion I'd be happy to hear it....seriously.

[Ry4n]

4 minutes ago, Vibroverse said:

Not even that, I guess. It only has some of the contents, amongst infinity, grasped. 

absolutely 

[Joel3102]

I subscribed to Sam Harris just to check out the Jim Newman episode...

[Air]

11 minutes ago, Ry4n said:

Not only is God, Consciousness and emptiness all one and the same (even if the experience of these facets may vary) but it's also inherently self aware and self loving. Emptiness itself can be totally self aware without an illusionary observer experiencing it. But..... none of this will fly if one hasn't experienced it, so experience it for yourself and if you can come to another conclusion I'd be happy to hear it....seriously.

But that is prone to delusion due to the fact that such experiences can only occur from within the human experience. It's not epistemologically correct to assume that consciousness is a fundamental feature when you're already a conscious human being, it could be simply all a projection from your current human experience, for example there is no conscious experience for a coffee table. If you're going to claim that inanimate objects are also conscious that again is prone to the human experience bias. Therefore the most epistemologically correct position is agnosticism, similar to Sam's, even though I'm not sure he gets this nuance.

[Ry4n]

1 minute ago, Air said:

for example there is no conscious experience for a coffee table.

a coffee table doesn't have awareness, but that doesn't mean that it isn't consciousness itself; even Sam admits in this interview that consciousness is quite literally the only means to which you know of the existence of anything, because consciousness is the very mechanism we rely on to know the existence of anything. I'm not saying inanimate objects have independent awareness, I have to stress the importance of this distinction. 

 

6 minutes ago, Air said:

it could be simply all a projection from your current human experience

Absolutely, and where is this "projection" coming from? Note that all projections are appearances and what I'm pointing to is the source of said appearances. 

[Mason Riggle]

“You are not controlling the storm, and you are not lost in it. You are the storm.” ― Sam Harris

Sam Harris doesn't 'get it'.. he IS it. 

[Leo Gura]

When you realize consciousness is infinite, nothing else remains.

[RedLine]

I don't understand why Rupert Spyra says Consciousness is always present but at the same time he says he wasn't conscious during surgery.

 

Isn't it contradictory? Can somebody explain it to me?

[Mason Riggle]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

When you realize consciousness is infinite, nothing else remains.

Even when you don't realize it, nothing else remains.  

[Mason Riggle]

"It's always now" - Sam Harris

It's always now = consciousness is infinite. 

 

[Mannyb]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Hence why I stress that there are many degrees of awakening. Otherwise you get stuff like this.

From the pov of awareness, which is the only real 1, only 1 of them is truly awake

From the POV of a so called “person” Sam is the only one awake, but can we really say one is awake if identifying with an actual dreamed up character? ??
My point being that there are degrees of awakening until the only real awakening

[Ry4n]

2 minutes ago, Mannyb said:

From the pov of awareness, which is the only real 1, only 1 of them is truly awake

From the POV of a so called “person” Sam is the only one awake, but can we really say one is awake if identifying with an actual dreamed up character? ??
My point being that there are degrees of awakening until the only real awakening

um......