Not feeling good about not lying.

[Saupahar]

My mom asked me to call her office pretending to be a office staff because they would recognize her voice. I did not agree saying that lying is not good(as learned from many spiritual teachings).

She did not convince me in doing that,so i should be happy,proud and not thinking about that stuff because i did not lie but it was quite opposite. Many thoughts were coming what if it was my personal gain or what if my family member needed a kidney and would be possible to save life only getting it illegally. Would i lie at that moment? 

Later my mind rationalized that it was not a selfish motive. It would not have been a lie if i had done it for my mom. I would just be helping her. (tricky mind)

I guess i am just moralizing that i should not lie. How will i know when is it allright to lie or not? Or is it not good to lie at all?  I am really confused. 

[Preety_India]

Why did your mom want you to pretend to be office staff? 

What happens if they recognize her voice? 

I'm a bit confused here. Can you be a bit clear? 

@Saupahar

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Preety_India

[Dancer]

You are moralizing. Only you know when it's ok to lie or not. It's your job to make that discernment depending on relation, situation and context.

I would say that striving to tell the truth is good. But occasionally it might be necessary to lie...

Never lie to yourself though

[Saupahar]

@Preety_IndiaShe does not want to be the one who calls as they would recognize her voice and ask to come to the office i guess. She often does not tell the exact reason.

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Saupahar

[Preety_India]

@Saupahar a simple question. 

Is your mom controlling?

Does she often tell you to do things for her that you don't like to do? 

If your mom is controlling, you should not listen to her as it might impact your way of taking decisions in life. 

If your mom is not controlling, perhaps she is telling you to help her out for genuinely good reasons, in which case you can help her and lying won't be a big deal so you don't have to worry too much about it. 

If the lying doesn't cause anyone any harm, you might want to take the little risk.

Lying is not the biggest sin on planet earth. Many people subconsciously do it. 

When we're trying to be moral, a part of it also means not being too militant about it to yourself or others and accommodate others behaviors without having the need to constantly judge or punish it. 

 

[Saupahar]

Thank you @Dancer and @Preety_India

She is not controlling,although it seems sometimes she is but i try to be mindful regarding that.

Now i feel that i should have done it without moralizing.

 

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Saupahar

[Preety_India]

22 minutes ago, Saupahar said:

Thank you @Dancer and @Preety_India

She is not controlling,although it seems sometimes she is but i try to be mindful regarding that.

Now i feel that i should have done it without moralizing.

 

 

True. 

[Opo]

4 hours ago, Saupahar said:

@Preety_IndiaShe does not want to be the one who calls as they would recognize her voice and ask to come to the office i guess. She often does not tell the exact reason.

Tell her to grow up. 

[Saupahar]

@Opo As if she is going to abandon her beliefs,reasons,dogmas,conditionings, prejudices,culture,religion, philosophy, etc. after telling her to grow up. ???

Edited February 4, 2021 by Saupahar

[Opo]

24 minutes ago, Saupahar said:

@Opo As if she is going to abandon her beliefs,reasons,dogmas,conditionings, prejudices,culture,religion, philosophy, etc. after telling her to grow up. ???

No one said she will. Njok njok njok

But at least she will stop asking stupid questions. 

[Saupahar]

What questions??

Wrong post alert!!

[Opo]

1 hour ago, Saupahar said:

What questions??

Wrong post alert!!

Lol I hope you're trolling. 

[aurum]

13 hours ago, Saupahar said:

@Preety_IndiaShe does not want to be the one who calls as they would recognize her voice and ask to come to the office i guess. She often does not tell the exact reason.

We don't know her motive, but it general that's not something a mother should be asking their child to do.

She put you in a shitty situation just by asking and forcing you to choose between helping her and your integrity.

[Matt23]

14 minutes ago, aurum said:

We don't know her motive, but it general that's not something a mother should be asking their child to do.

She put you in a shitty situation just by asking and forcing you to choose between helping her and your integrity

I would agree with this as well.

I'd also suggest that, in a different situation, that lying isn't necessarily "bad".  Check out Laurence Kolberg's stages of moral development.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg's_stages_of_moral_development

I'd say your mom was doing something that was kind of low-brow and manipulative (but I don't know the situation fully, I could be totally misinterpreting here).  If she had said the reason's why she wanted you to lie, and depending on those reasons (e.g., if she wanted you to lie so she could escape an abusive relationship I'd say is acceptable, or, she wanted you to lie to get a raise or to avoid some smaller or more petty issue she had with a co-worker, I'd say that wouldn't be "right").  

I guess I'd say it depends on the context, including:

• How forthright she was about the situation or how much you knew about the situation.
• How severe the situation was.
• perhaps what the alternatives to lying were.

Another option, depending on how severe the situation is, is to lie to help the person/yourself so they are ok and not in danger, etc., and then if you still feel bad about it redeem yourself by coming clean later.   I don't think I'd prefer this option since it implies sort of that the lie you told may not have been the best thing to do since you do feel bad about it.  But, on the other hand, you feeling bad about it could be your own moralizing or neurotic thinking and coming clean may be a way in which you feel would alleviate yourself from the guilt.  But, if this is the case, instead of firstly coming clean, maybe try to contemplate it and do inner work to see what's true and alleviate yourself from the neurotic guilt...

Again, I don't know the situation and I prefer to take each situation as it comes to feel and decide what is true or best.

Look within. 

 

[Matt23]

I'd also watch out for when the reason of lying to protect someone legitimately is being coopted for lying in a way which you say is to protect them but is actually you being an enabler of their negative behaviors.  In which case you're not helping them learn the lesson and may need to be more strict.

Ex:  Perhaps the difference between...

• Lying for your mom since, if you didn't, she be killed.
• vs. ...
• Lying for your mom because she feels she doesn't want to summon the courage to confront a co-worker or boss about an issue she has with them at work.  She's also not raised the issue with them before.

Again, this isn't a perfect analogy since some people may be in abusive relationships at work and elsewhere, and, due to their life situation, personality, traumas, etc., may be feeling like really helpless about it and may need someone to step in... 

Gotta find that line.

Again, this is where your personal discernment needs to be brought into play.

[Loving Radiance]

@Saupahar Contextwise: Are you saying that your mother did not want to go to work?

[Saupahar]

@aurum For her it was not a big of a deal..actually now i think its not. She just wanted to know whether the office is closed or not which she could not do it herself and only she knows the reasons why and i can only guess. The issue of the matter is should i have made the call or not?

@Matt23 thank you for the insight man. That is really helpful.

@Loving Radiance she did not want to go all the way there and return for nothing if the office was closed.

[Thought Art]

if you know your values, live by them

[blackchair]

lying is in essence protection, so ask yourself what are you protecting yourself from.

[EnlightenmentBlog]

The only person you should not lie to is yourself. Brutal self-honesty is crucial.

As to other people, you just have to. I'm lying to my family about the whole enlightenment thing, they just think I'm meditating to be more mindful. They'd go crazy if they found out I want to take psychedelics. So it depends on the situation.