I'm leaving for a break. Can't handle the solipsism.

[Nivsch]

I want to clarify its not meant personally for Leo, but for the solipsistic attitude itself.

First of all I wanted to say that this "Aloneness" topic is hard for me personally. Maybe its because I went trough social rejection on-and-off and social difficulties that accumulated to couple of years when I was a child (I'm 33 yo, just look younger) and it was I think a trauma for me, and maybe it affects my attitude towards this Aloneness Ideology. 

I think thats also the root cause of my ocd and anxiety and the need all the time to "prove" my validity and it affects my self image, BUT I'm in an healing process and also in withdrawal from AD that I felt did bad for me during the last couple of years (out of 10) I use them, and I have to say that Leo's content helps me a lot in my process and I learn to love myself more and more.

So maybe I am emotionally biased here, but yet - this is true for everyone. Everyone have their own biasies which affect their worldview and depends on their psychology and their past.

I think Solipsism is an INHERENT pitfall of stage Turquoise. 

Inherent, built-in within the turquoise (mainly turquoise of course) package, for the good things this stage has and for the bad things.

But it still important to make a dinstinction here. If its meaning is that the whole universe is a one deterministic unit, one organism, one thing without seperation (becuase nobody is really in control) and you are / everything are all together in this as the GOD head, what I admit I am just starting to see in my direct experience, then its OK an valid.

But, if you (everyone, not Leo personally) say that even when I choose to define myself as a limited human - if you say that even then I'm alone in the universe, and Me (as Niv) exists, but my parents aren't - sorry but now you are dogmatic and taking it too far, and in that point I lose you and thats the point when Turquoise enters its unhealthy zone.

Someone here said its smells like a dogma and maybe it is. PLEASE keep in mind that a Blue person ALSO thinks he got the absolute. Yes, Leo is obviousely more advanced, but remember that its still RELATIVE. In the future there will be more stages and every stage thinks he got the full picture.

I have a lot of respect for Leo and for what he says that we have to do the work and valid the thing for ourselves. I think he is one of the smartest and most consciouse people in society. surely in the cutting edge. I learn from him a lot and even agree with 90% and even more of what he says.

I aware of the need to do cross-sources investigation. I do this, and I read many books of also other consciouse people.

Its all came from genuine positive intentions and desire to keep leraning from Actalized.org and say what is important for me to say. Again not about him personally but about this specific dogma. Yes, this sneaky dogma called solipsism that can be also dangerous, which I wanted to address here. 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Nivsch

[aurum]

@Nivsch

Perhaps we should start making a distinction between aloneness and Aloneness.

"Aloneness" = universe as One, which is also you. "aloneness" = I am a isolated individual, i.e ego.

These are obviously not the same at all.

"Aloneness" is not lonely at all! It's the opposite.

If you're feeling lonely, I've found that's a product of "aloneness".

The other problem is that non-duality becomes impossible describe using language, since language is inherently dualistic. Hence, why spiritual teachers have you sit and meditate instead of just feeding you teachings.

Take time off if you need. It's totally fine. But no, these teachings are not some shadow of stage Turquiose. They just need to be fully understood and not misinterpreted.

[Mu_]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

I want to clarify its not meant personally for Leo, but for the solipsistic attitude itself.

First of all I wanted to say that this "Aloneness" topic is hard for me personally. Maybe its because I went trough social rejection for couple of years when I was a child (I'm 33 yo, just look younger) and it was a trauma for me, and maybe it affects my attitude towards this Aloneness Ideology. I think thats also the root cause of my ocd and anxiety, BUT I'm in an healing process and also in withdrawal from AD that I felt did bad for me during the last years I use them, and I have to say that Leo's content helps me a lot in my process.

So maybe I am emotionally biased here, but yet - this is true for everyone. Everyone have their own biasies which affect their worldview and depends on their psychology and their past.

I think Solipsism is an INHERENT pitfall of stage Turquoise. 

Inherent, built-in within the turquoise (mainly turquoise of course) package, for the good things this stage has and for the bad things.

But it still important to make a dinstinction here. If its meaning is that the whole universe is a one deterministic unit, one organism, one thing without seperation (becuase nobody is really in control) and you are / everything are all together in this as the GOD head, what I admit I am just starting to see in my direct experience, then its OK an valid.

But, if you (everyone, not Leo personally) say that even when I choose to define myself as a limited human - if you say that even then I'm alone in the universe, and Me (as Niv) exists, but my parents aren't - sorry but now you are dogmatic and taking it too far, and in that point I lose you and thats the point when Turquoise enters its unhealthy zone.

Someone here said its smells like a dogma and maybe it is. PLEASE keep in mind that a Blue person ALSO thinks he got the absolute. Yes, Leo is obviousely more advanced, but remember that its still RELATIVE.

I have a lot of respect for Leo and for what he says that we have to do the work and valid the thing for ourselves. I think he is one of the smartest and most consciouse people in society. surely in the cutting edge. I learn from him a lot and even agree with 90% and even more of what he says.

I aware of the need to do cross-sources investigation. I do this, and I read many books of also other consciouse people.

Its all came from genuine positive intentions and desire to keep leraning from Actalized.org and say what is important for me to say. Again not about him personally but about this specific dogma. Yes, this sneaky dogma called solipsism that can be also dangerous, which I wanted to address here. 

Breaks are good.  Invest in what your heart is now interested.  Down the road with new perspective, you may see all this in a new light. 

[Loving Radiance]

3 hours ago, Nivsch said:

First of all I wanted to say that this "Aloneness" topic is hard for me personally. Maybe its because I went trough social rejection for couple of years when I was a child (I'm 33 yo, just look younger) and it was a trauma for me, and maybe it affects my attitude towards this Aloneness Ideology. I think thats also the root cause of my ocd and anxiety, BUT I'm in an healing process and also in withdrawal from AD that I felt did bad for me during the last years I use them, and I have to say that Leo's content helps me a lot in my process.

Hey, I'm not gonna address that enlightenment stuff. Just a suggestion from me if you want:

What I found feeling & being good on my journey of OCD & being socially retarded is to join these hippy SD Green workshops. Maybe you already discovered them. I just feel good to rest and let go of anything that I think about myself during these workshops & retreats as they challenge me to extend myself. There is a loving atmosphere, and trauma is often getting met from a shamanic perspective. The people understand & accept you. I found this group community feeling to be very healing to me. Maybe this is also something that rings true to you.

Wishing you well ?

[Moksha]

4 hours ago, Nivsch said:

But it still important to make a dinstinction here. If its meaning is that the whole universe is a one deterministic unit, one organism, one thing without seperation (becuase nobody is really in control) and you are / everything are all together in this as the GOD head, what I admit I am just starting to see in my direct experience, then its OK an valid.

Your instinct is guiding you well here. I share your cynicism of solipsism. It is duality parading as nonduality. If You are the Source of the cosmos, and everything out there is just an illusion, then You have created a duality between You and the illusions that you create.

Nonduality goes beyond solipsism. It it the realization that everything, including the infinite variety of forms that You create, is mysteriously part of the same One.

The waves of the ocean are still part of the ocean, however transient they may be.

Don't dismiss life as meaningless, as so many solipsists do. God is all, including the journey of each soul back to its Source. 

[lmfao]

@Nivsch Good luck brother, I'm with you. Feel free to talk about your AD journey some time, even if you're leaving for now. 

Edited February 2, 2021 by lmfao

[Preety_India]

@Nivsch good luck. I feel your pain. Hope everything works out for you in the end. 

You do what's best for you. 

 

[Kuba Powiertowski]

Hi Brother,
I completely understand You. In this journey, the bigger ups the bigger downs. It happens all the time. Sometimes You have a, as I call it, a far glimpse but it's too much to comprehend right now. For now, it won't work. Watch those episodes of dangers of spiritual work and ego backlash. We still use a dual language and what is most important we think in dual language. And the further You reach, things become more and non-dual... They, of course, are non-dual all the time but that's the process that You gradually assimilate the non-duality in Your rate. And this rate as I see it in my case is with the speed of a turtle. Take a break if You need it. We're all on this ship to freedom. You'll be fine. After all, it's all good:)

Love You Mate,

The tiny, human piece of love flies to YOU:)

[Nivsch]

On 2.2.2021 at 6:58 PM, aurum said:

Perhaps we should start making a distinction between aloneness and Aloneness.

"Aloneness" = universe as One, which is also you. "aloneness" = I am a isolated individual, i.e ego.

These are obviously not the same at all.

"Aloneness" is not lonely at all! It's the opposite.

Exactly! Thats what I think the healthy version of this.

You described it great. We understand each other

On 2.2.2021 at 6:58 PM, aurum said:

The other problem is that non-duality becomes impossible describe using language, since language is inherently dualistic. Hence, why spiritual teachers have you sit and meditate instead of just feeding you teachings.

Take time off if you need. It's totally fine. But no, these teachings are not some shadow of stage Turquiose. They just need to be fully understood and not misinterpreted.

Either is me who didnt ask the question clearly enough, Or is the teacher didnt know how to explain it in a way that will bridge between his thought and mine.

Or both.

Edited February 3, 2021 by Nivsch

[Thought Art]

Isn't it just that God is alone in the universe? Cuz if it is just me and I am imagining all you that is wierd. But, aren't we all imagining eachother as God?

God is alone not us.

[Nivsch]

On 2.2.2021 at 7:41 PM, Mu_ said:

Breaks are good.  Invest in what your heart is now interested.  Down the road with new perspective, you may see all this in a new light.

thanks

On 2.2.2021 at 10:05 PM, Loving Radiance said:

What I found feeling & being good on my journey of OCD & being socially retarded is to join these hippy SD Green workshops. Maybe you already discovered them. I just feel good to rest and let go of anything that I think about myself during these workshops & retreats as they challenge me to extend myself. There is a loving atmosphere, and trauma is often getting met from a shamanic perspective. The people understand & accept you. I found this group community feeling to be very healing to me. Maybe this is also something that rings true to you.

Wishing you well ?

An interesting way to cope with the root of the problem. I have not think about it. thank you I will try it.

[Thought Art]

@Nivsch Tantric and Shamanic Festivals are a great way to meet other spiritual people. Leo has a particular style that can get a bit stale, so be sure to branch out!

[Jodo]

It is wise to be in different environments. Don't rely on words and definitions too much, neither on explanations of anybody. Especially not zealously or defensive. This all drains a person. 

Seek live action and inter-actions with others, especially if you need it more than an average person, since you lacked it before, as you wrote.
Volunteer work, helping others, etc. can be very beneficial... work with the land if you can - garden, etc. Hike in nature.

Also try not to understand certain ideas as "solipsism"... this is the same error as some people do, when they think that Buddhist ideas are against life or pro-death and similar... The meaning of it all goes deeper than that... "To die before you die" is not to be understood too literally, also not the ideas of "You are God", "All is Illusion", etc.

And I also don't think compartmentalizing and sticking narrow definitions to the states of being and experiencing the world is particularly useful, it can narrow down the bigger picture and make you think in "boxes" and compartments - you know like people talking about astrological signs, like: "Aha, you're a Virgo, mhm, I know...", despite having a very vague idea about astrology, especially not the more advanced kinds, who take in account the accurate astronomy, and even then... They are just convinced they know something by sticking a label to it and ascribe a definition to it.
So, people talk - "Ah, you're libertarian, I know...." or "Ah, you're stage brown (or whatever), we know you..." I prefer to practice what in Dzogchen is called an "open awareness" , a state beyond conceptual thought, just resting in a clear and open awareness... 

That is a problem with our language and conceptual thinking - it can't REALLY convey the direct experience. Maybe it is wise to go off from here if it burdens your mind and adds more questions than solutions. Social media can be rather fatiguing at times. 

 

[Nivsch]

On 2.2.2021 at 10:44 PM, Moksha said:

Your instinct is guiding you well here. I share your cynicism of solipsism. It is duality parading as nonduality. If You are the Source of the cosmos, and everything out there is just an illusion, then You have created a duality between You and the illusions that you create.

Nonduality goes beyond solipsism. It it the realization that everything, including the infinite variety of forms that You create, is mysteriously part of the same One.

The waves of the ocean are still part of the ocean, however transient they may be.

Don't dismiss life as meaningless, as so many solipsists do. God is all, including the journey of each soul back to its Source. 

thanks!??

On 2.2.2021 at 10:56 PM, lmfao said:

@Nivsch Good luck brother, I'm with you. Feel free to talk about your AD journey some time, even if you're leaving for now. 

I would love to talk and also raise awareness about what doctors don't know/don't want to know about AD.

Just couple of months until around summer.

On 2.2.2021 at 11:16 PM, Preety_India said:

@Nivsch good luck. I feel your pain. Hope everything works out for you in the end. 

You do what's best for you. 

Thank you!

On 3.2.2021 at 4:22 PM, Kuba Powiertowski said:

Hi Brother,
I completely understand You. In this journey, the bigger ups the bigger downs. It happens all the time. Sometimes You have a, as I call it, a far glimpse but it's too much to comprehend right now. For now, it won't work. Watch those episodes of dangers of spiritual work and ego backlash. We still use a dual language and what is most important we think in dual language. And the further You reach, things become more and non-dual... They, of course, are non-dual all the time but that's the process that You gradually assimilate the non-duality in Your rate. And this rate as I see it in my case is with the speed of a turtle. Take a break if You need it. We're all on this ship to freedom. You'll be fine. After all, it's all good:)

Love You Mate,

The tiny, human piece of love flies to YOU:)

Thank you and good luck to you too in your journey.

On 4.2.2021 at 0:26 AM, Thought Art said:

God is alone not us.

With this I agree.

On 4.2.2021 at 0:58 PM, Jodo said:

It is wise to be in different environments. Don't rely on words and definitions too much, neither on explanations of anybody. Especially not zealously or defensive. This all drains a person. 

Seek live action and inter-actions with others, especially if you need it more than an average person, since you lacked it before, as you wrote.
Volunteer work, helping others, etc. can be very beneficial... work with the land if you can - garden, etc. Hike in nature.

Also try not to understand certain ideas as "solipsism"... this is the same error as some people do, when they think that Buddhist ideas are against life or pro-death and similar... The meaning of it all goes deeper than that... "To die before you die" is not to be understood too literally, also not the ideas of "You are God", "All is Illusion", etc.

And I also don't think compartmentalizing and sticking narrow definitions to the states of being and experiencing the world is particularly useful, it can narrow down the bigger picture and make you think in "boxes" and compartments - you know like people talking about astrological signs, like: "Aha, you're a Virgo, mhm, I know...", despite having a very vague idea about astrology, especially not the more advanced kinds, who take in account the accurate astronomy, and even then... They are just convinced they know something by sticking a label to it and ascribe a definition to it.
So, people talk - "Ah, you're libertarian, I know...." or "Ah, you're stage brown (or whatever), we know you..." I prefer to practice what in Dzogchen is called an "open awareness" , a state beyond conceptual thought, just resting in a clear and open awareness... 

That is a problem with our language and conceptual thinking - it can't REALLY convey the direct experience. Maybe it is wise to go off from here if it burdens your mind and adds more questions than solutions. Social media can be rather fatiguing at times. 

A very wise comment, and I agree. I will have to read it couple of times more.

[Nivsch]

On 4.2.2021 at 0:58 PM, Jodo said:

Ah, you're stage brown (or whatever), we know you..."

stage brown ? probably a depressing stage...