Gaslighting

[commie]

What are you people even calling "rights"?

[Surfingthewave]

@SamC @SamC

6 minutes ago, SamC said:

 

@Surfingthewave

You can feel gaslighted without being gaslighted.

I have the right to disagree that it was gaslighting. You felt like you're misunderstood and not met with understanding but that doesn't mean I gaslighted you. That's only your interpretation of me disagreeing. 

I don't think you can actually because telling me how I should or shouldn't be feeling is exactly my point.

I am sensing strong feelings from you about this issue. Why do you think you had an issue about this with your partner? I agree to disagree with you, no hard feelings. 

I'm sorry if you feel like your opinion isn't valid but perhaps reflect on your tone? 

[fridjonk]

Ego, ego, ego, ego, on both sides. That's all that's happening. 

[Surfingthewave]

@Etherial Cat

I think it depends of the severity of the case. As you say if a person's needs are not seen, minimised or depreciated this could be a case of gaslighting.  I also think it's the combination of this and the power exerted over the individual leaving the individual feeling like they've lost the ability to rationalise about the situation to see it for what it truly is. 

Gaslighting gets dangerous when it undermines a person's self belief. This is only measured by how someone feels and should not be judged by someone else. 

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Surfingthewave

[SamC]

 

53 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

Ego, ego, ego, ego, on both sides. That's all that's happening. 

100% agree. I shouldn't even be here debating. This is my emeshment trauma kicking in. That's why I get so triggered. 

I should focus on moving people up the spiral instead of demonization and debating spiral dynamics stage green. 

I'm out, thanks for the discussion. All love@Surfingthewave

 

[Surfingthewave]

@SamC

Thank you for being honest. 

Good luck  ? 

[Barbara]

Regarding any type of manipulation, the best way for me to deal with it, is, instead of thinking "I'm being manipulated", thinking "I'm letting myself being manipulated". And I'm highlighting "deal" because this second thought is already proactive in itself. I'm not just stating that I'm being a target of others' manipulation, for the sake of denunciating it and feel pity for myself. Dealing with it means I want to resolve it and grow from it. 

With that said, when saying "I'm being manipulated", there's not much I can do about it, since I cannot control others. They'll just do what they want and the most you can do is telling them to stop or explain how that's affecting you. But that does not guarantee you anything. It's completely out of your control that they hear you or not. 

But when I say, "I'm letting myself get manipulated", I'm already focusing on what I can actually control. Myself only. This means I'm not putting my well-being and self-perception in anyone's hands. I find it helpful here, to work on self-image, self-love, and self-esteem too. This way, other people behaviours won't shape you. And this for me is responsibilization. Just owning your life. Not even bothering to think what others should or shouldn't be doing.

I would only add tho, that if I trust the person who had a manipulative behaviour, I'll go ahead and tell her how I felt. But that's only for the puropose of not growing apart and would aply to two or three people in my life  

[Surfingthewave]

@Barbara I think you've made some good points about how to learn and grow from other people's behaviours and the importance of not letting it impact on you. This is why self actualisation is so important for relationships. 

If you hold a lot of self love for yourself and are aware of how you are in a relationship, particularly triggers, this can help. 

But for a lot of people this is difficult particularly if you have a very close bond with the person/love that person or there are "fixed roles" in the relationship and you want to help them to understand why it's wrong what they are doing. Often people can fear saying the wrong thing or fear that person leaving them. 

[Preety_India]

When you are in a relationship and you feel gaslighted and you feel you've been victimized in some manner, don't feel hesitant to open up about it to the partner or else it festers inside. Confront the partner about it and let them know so they know you are aware it. 

Also when you've been victimized and someone tells you that you have a victim mindset, it's a subtle form of gaslighting because your position or sentiment has been invalidated. 

 

[Barbara]

@Surfingthewave I don't think that in an equal-parts relationship there'll be the manipulative one and the manipulated one, honestly. Normally when you feel hurt, you'll try to hurt your partner as well. Even if the two apologize sincerely for what they've done, later.

Of course that, those dynamics are only normative. With higher consciousness, that would be predictable to happen less and less.

And that would never be the case if there's some degree of disparity between the two.

3 hours ago, Surfingthewave said:

Often people can fear saying the wrong thing or fear that person leaving them. 

What do you mean here? 

[Surfingthewave]

@Barbara I don't agree actually, if you've been manipulated, you've been manipulated  - whatever level consciousness you are.

 @modmyth

I don't think it matters whether you feel bound to it or not. I agree with your first point it probably isn't gaslighting and just a momentary thing in an argument. But if that person is denying the way you feel over and over and in essence undermining your self belief that's gaslighting/ a form of abuse, surely? 

In abusive relationships sometimes the person can feel stuck in it as they may fear leaving and the consequences of this (more domestic abusive rather than just being gaslit). 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Surfingthewave

[Dancer]

Being gaslighted is simply not trusting in yourself.

Who are you going to trust if can't even trust yourself?

No one can actually gaslight you because you are the one holding all the power.

You are giving away your power to someone and then complaining about that someone using your power to gaslight you.

[Preety_India]

Gaslighting is a powerful technique that always works. 

Ask any psychologist 

 

If gaslighting was nothing, why would psychologists even coin such a term? 

To decide whether someone has been manipulated or abused or not is a serious case of entitlement. 

 

[Surfingthewave]

@Dancer No it's not. It's about being aware enough to point out what that person is doing, and that it's wrong. Yes you do hold the power but often this power can feel like (this is important) it's taken away by the person gaslighting you by the way they do it (manipulation/humiliation/threats/ denial etc) 

[Surfingthewave]

2 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

To decide whether someone has been manipulated or abused or not is a serious case of entitlement. 

 

Exactly and it's not for "someone else" to decide. Unless you need a psychologist or a professional to point it out as you are not sure.

[AlyK]

The first word you heard as a baby was manipulation. All communication is manipulation. I would have loved to have grown up a Spanish speaker but my parents (unwittingly) deprived me of that  

[Dancer]

2 minutes ago, Surfingthewave said:

@Dancer No it's not. It's about being aware enough to point out what that person is doing, and that it's wrong. Yes you do hold the power but often this power can feel like (this is important) it's taken away by the person gaslighting you by the way they do it (manipulation/humiliation/threats/ denial etc) 

The power is given away by you. It's not taken by anybody. It may feel like it, but it's false. You are the one with all the power. You just need to realize it.

Since you hold all the power, you are not afraid anymore. Getting out of an unwanted situation now will be a piece of cake.

If you are physically threatened you could call the police.

[Preety_India]

1 hour ago, modmyth said:

If they keep doing the same thing over and over and you overidentify directly with their perspective in the sense that you feel bound to it, then perhaps this is the difference between someone who feels like a victim and someone who does not.

Can you explain me this in a different way because I just didn't understand it 

 

[Dancer]

43 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Gaslighting is a powerful technique that always works. 

Ask any psychologist 

 

If gaslighting was nothing, why would psychologists even coin such a term? 

To decide whether someone has been manipulated or abused or not is a serious case of entitlement. 

 

To decide whether someone has been manipulative/abusive or not is a serious case of entitlement

[Preety_India]

Just now, Dancer said:

To decide whether someone has been manipulative/abusive or not is a serious case of entitlement

There are diagnosable ways to know if abuse as happened or not. There are a ton of signs and red flags. Don't assume that all victims are simple people running around with pitchforks just wanting to go on a hunt. 

If someone is abused, often times they will have evidence to prove it like voice recordings or text messages or the styles of communication on the basis of which it can be determined whether the person was abused or not. 

So there is no form of entitlement in deciding whether someone is manipulative or abusive or not because such things aren't randomly drawn out of thin air but are based and backed by solid psychological research and a body of evidence to back it up.