Let’s stop demonizing Green

[Alastair]

11 hours ago, Preety_India said:

Green strategies don't even get implemented half the time because of stupid arguments like these.  

 

Preety just checking but can you think of examples of Green strategies that were not implemented because of said arguments?

[Alastair]

11 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

If more Green = quicker collapse of the western empire, then I agree.

What do you mean by the collapse of the Western Empire first?

[Alastair]

10 hours ago, Hello from Russia said:

Nah, we should deconstruct silly green ideologies. Green people are very weak epistemologically and get into all sorts of ideological traps because of it. We need to spot more of these and facilitate moving people to yellow

I actually agree with this statement. Its one of the main reasons why a lot of Green people gravitate towards far Left ideologies ( socialism, communism ) without understanding ( or caring ) about the practical implications of these ideologies.

[Preety_India]

6 minutes ago, Alastair said:

Preety just checking but can you think of examples of Green strategies that were not implemented because of said arguments?

The election of Trump and mishandling of Corona. 

Ban on Muslims

No climate change. 

No change in systemic racism because of conservative pushback supported by Trump. 

 

[Alastair]

8 hours ago, Vrubel said:

No, I didn't.

Here is a radical idea: what if stage orange people actually can have wise ideas and attitudes worth considering.
 

When people at a higher stage of Spiral Dynamics can't accept the fact that people at a lower stage are better than them in some manner... ...

[Alastair]

6 hours ago, diamondpenguin said:

You can't change anyone or control anyone. @Hello from Russia So don't even try. And some of us like being in stage green. 

You don't sound like you are in Stage Green dude ... ...

[Alastair]

13 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

The election of Trump and mishandling of Corona. 

Ban on Muslims

No climate change. 

No change in systemic racism because of conservative pushback supported by Trump. 

 

Perhaps it is necessary for people to understand why Trump has garnered so much support in the first place. Trump is no worse than people like Obama and Biden, but the thing is people are sick and tired of the Green-like narrative of "compassion, unity, empathy" unless its people that you are offended by without searching for any truths in said statements that you are "offended" by. Trump has his strengths and weaknesses, but at the very least he cared about the American people. My suggestion is that listen to these people without falling for the far-Left mainstream media narrative of calling these people racist, sexist and homophobes with no evidence of them being so.

As to the mishandling of Corona, how do you think it was mishandled, and what do you think would be a Green way to handle it?

The ban on Muslims was in response to the threat of religious extremists declaring jihad on whomever it is that does not join Islam and think exactly like them ( kind of like "Green" people these days, don't you think? ). What do you think would be a "Green" way of handling the response to religious extremism threatening to wipe out your country's population?

How is systemic racism still a thing when America already has a Black president, black people are allowed to trumpet their opinions all over social media (even call White people "racist" with no evidence and still get supported) and there being an abundance of Black people in corporate jobs, having their own businesses, and being allowed to live life the way that they want? If anything it feels like the White people are being discriminated now with all these "Green" people calling them racists and such.

[Preety_India]

@Alastair these are all like basic conservative footnotes.

Lmao. 

Classic conservative talking points condensed and packaged in 3 neat paragraphs. 

 

 

[Preety_India]

4 minutes ago, Alastair said:

Perhaps it is necessary for people to understand why Trump has garnered so much support in the first place. Trump is no worse than people like Obama and Biden, but the thing is people are sick and tired of the Green-like narrative of "compassion, unity, empathy" unless its people that you are offended by without searching for any truths in said statements that you are "offended" by. Trump has his strengths and weaknesses, but at the very least he cared about the American people. My suggestion is that listen to these people without falling for the far-Left mainstream media narrative of calling these people racist, sexist and homophobes with no evidence of them being so.

As to the mishandling of Corona, how do you think it was mishandled, and what do you think would be a Green way to handle it?

The ban on Muslims was in response to the threat of religious extremists declaring jihad on whomever it is that does not join Islam and think exactly like them ( kind of like "Green" people these days, don't you think? ). What do you think would be a "Green" way of handling the response to religious extremism threatening to wipe out your country's population?

How is systemic racism still a thing when America already has a Black president, black people are allowed to trumpet their opinions all over social media (even call White people "racist" with no evidence and still get supported) and there being an abundance of Black people in corporate jobs, having their own businesses, and being allowed to live life the way that they want? If anything it feels like the White people are being discriminated now with all these "Green" people calling them racists and such.

I'll note this lol. 

[Alastair]

2 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@Alastair these are all like basic conservative footnotes.

Lmao. 

Classic conservative talking points condensed and packaged in 3 neat paragraphs. 

 

 

Perhaps, perhaps not.

But surely it would be beneficial to all of us if you were to suggest a solution / counter my opinions from a "Green" standpoint rather than slapping the word "Conservative" on to everything so as to avoid an actual discussion?

[Preety_India]

@Alastair actually there is no discussion. 

There are only left talking points and right talking points 

And they are all usually the same all the time

 

[Alastair]

12 minutes ago, Alastair said:

As to the mishandling of Corona, how do you think it was mishandled, and what do you think would be a Green way to handle it?

The ban on Muslims was in response to the threat of religious extremists declaring jihad on whomever it is that does not join Islam and think exactly like them ( kind of like "Green" people these days, don't you think? ). What do you think would be a "Green" way of handling the response to religious extremism threatening to wipe out your country's population?

@Preety_India there , I cut out the talking points for you, please do elaborate on these points, no point in talking about problems unless a solution is to be proposed.

[kag101]

Let's stop demonizing orange.  

 

[Preety_India]

@Alastair the Corona was mishandled because supplies were delayed to states and hospitals. There was no proper communication between President and State governors causing chaos, any response was delayed, no stringent social distancing, Trump encouraging people to remove masks by removing his own mask, Trump not encouraging people to take precautions rather discouraging precautions. 

Ban on Muslims is unfair. Terrorism needs high level technology and high level military intelligence 

Banning Muslims is like punishing them for no fault of their own. 

[Matt23]

I don't think Joe Biden is Green at all.  You might be confusing Blue collective values with Green Collective values.  He's definitely an old fart from the tradition days; family togetherness n all that.  Not saying it's bad.  

But ya, I definitely appreciate Green to some degree.  It's weird, I can often feel triggered by them, with like their more superficial views and stances, but a deeper underlying layer in my notices how compassionate, understandable, and awesome they are as well.  Especially for taking care of everyone in a more loving way.  and I appreciate that for sure, to the point where their superficial stuff is easier to look past since I "obviously" see how much more conscious they are than other people.  

I also don't strictly equate Green with hippies smoking dope living in vans.  I can see them being quite successful and very functional and hard working and high-level people, in terms of society's definitions anyway.  Like, I think many of them often have excelled in areas of life, but then once moving into Green, have forgone those successes which then, since people don't see a Green person's successes and all they see is a hippie dude, they think they are lazy slobs. 

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Matt23

[Forestluv]

5 hours ago, Vrubel said:

In reality, a person can only change and move up the spiral if he himself is willing and "ready". It doesn't matter if you are coming from a stage yellow perspective with a loving emphatic connection. Tier 1 stages will demonize you for rocking their worldview. They will subtly demonize you in their head because that's how the ego-mind maintains its "righteousness" and homeostasis. 

It's context dependent. That is not always the case. 

Tier 2 is a quantum leap in terms of development and maturity. With that comes responsibility. Similar to the responsibility of having a child. A good parent needs to grow up. They can no longer get drunk with the Boyz every night. 

A mature, developed person doesn't stoop to the level of those less developed. A parent doesn't throw a temper tantrum when his child throws a temper tantrum.  A mature, developed person doesn't criticize someone for their own relief and empowerment. A mature, developed person doesn't project their repressed issues onto others. 

Yes, one can have good intentions and try to change others that don't want to be changed. Yet it's not just about changing others. It is about being that change and a role model. 

5 hours ago, Vrubel said:

But I definitely agree that love is the best approach for helping other people grow. But also realize that love is not always expressed in a sweet feminine way. Masculine love can be perceived as ruthless but nonetheless, it's love, which in certain situations is better for "growing" a person. 

Yes, in some situations direct, stern love can be helpful for others to grow. Yet this is balanced with feminine love. Yin and Yang. In today's age there is a short supply of masculine love. In general, society waaay too far unbalanced toward masculinity of conflict, hyper criticism, antagonism, being right, consumption, productivity, judgement, fighting, debating, intellect, controlling etc. Of course these all have value in some contexts, yet in my view we are way off-balance.

In terms of yellow, it's very rare that I see a man at a yellow level that is well-integrated in green. I can only think of one. Most of those at yellow that are green-integrated are women. 

[aurum]

1 hour ago, Alastair said:

Perhaps it is necessary for people to understand why Trump has garnered so much support in the first place. Trump is no worse than people like Obama and Biden, but the thing is people are sick and tired of the Green-like narrative of "compassion, unity, empathy" unless its people that you are offended by without searching for any truths in said statements that you are "offended" by. Trump has his strengths and weaknesses, but at the very least he cared about the American people. My suggestion is that listen to these people without falling for the far-Left mainstream media narrative of calling these people racist, sexist and homophobes with no evidence of them being so.

As to the mishandling of Corona, how do you think it was mishandled, and what do you think would be a Green way to handle it?

The ban on Muslims was in response to the threat of religious extremists declaring jihad on whomever it is that does not join Islam and think exactly like them ( kind of like "Green" people these days, don't you think? ). What do you think would be a "Green" way of handling the response to religious extremism threatening to wipe out your country's population?

How is systemic racism still a thing when America already has a Black president, black people are allowed to trumpet their opinions all over social media (even call White people "racist" with no evidence and still get supported) and there being an abundance of Black people in corporate jobs, having their own businesses, and being allowed to live life the way that they want? If anything it feels like the White people are being discriminated now with all these "Green" people calling them racists and such.

Brother you're not going to do well on this forum with those arguments.

It's pretty obvious that you resonate with rationality, logic and conservatism. That ain't gonna fly if you're into Leo's content.

[Carl-Richard]

11 hours ago, captainamerica said:

I am not saying Green is wrong. But the way a lot of people implement green reminds me of Shit and Weed. 

I had a "Shit and Weed" phase 5 years ago. It's a phenomena I call "the Red/Green interrelation": Red or lack of Blue integration masquerading as surface level Green, common in teenagers. I believe it's the origin of the fad quote "If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain."

Edited February 3, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[captainamerica]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

I had a "Shit and Weed" phase 5 years ago. It's a phenomena I call the "Red/Green interrelation": Red or lack of Blue integration masquerading as surface level Green, common in teenagers. I believe it's the origin of the fad quote "If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative at 40, you have no brain."

@Carl-RichardThat is said lightheartedly as a metaphor and it has truth to it.

For eg. Many times people "identify" to be Green when they are not, for the sake of their ego defense and not civilization growth or the good of others. When the centre is ego defense and not growth, development etc. you need to highlight it from this perspective. 

IMO, the way many people talk about it seems like they are falling into the trap of ideology and may not come out of it for decades. A complete view is needed to prevent that.

Edited February 3, 2021 by captainamerica

[Alastair]

1 hour ago, aurum said:

Brother you're not going to do well on this forum with those arguments.

It's pretty obvious that you resonate with rationality, logic and conservatism. That ain't gonna fly if you're into Leo's content.

I have been into Leo's content well before I became a Conservative lol.

And my objective here is not to do well anyway, it's to pit my opinions against others' and see where we align and where we divide. That's more fun to be honest with you.