God CANNOT Be Separated from Religion

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, Valwyndir said:

@Leo Gura

Could anything in existence exist without everything else?

Of course not. The world is full of bullshit. Doesn't mean we have to drink it.

Quote

Religion might be bullshit, but it's also love.

Rape is also love, but I would not endorse it.

[Valwyndir]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course not. The world is full of bullshit. Doesn't mean I have to drink it.

You can't avoid it because you are it hahaha

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Rape is also love, but I would not endorse it.

I'm not endorsing religion per se. I'm simply loving it and extinguishing my animosity toward it. 

The only thing I'm endorsing is love.

[SpiritualAwakening]

29 minutes ago, Valwyndir said:

@Leo Gura Be honest with yourself. Would your awakening be what it is without religion?

Would your awakening be what it is without previously identifying as an atheist? Could atheism exist without religion?

Could awakening exist without religion? Could You exist without religion?

Could anything in existence exist without everything else?

Religion might be bullshit, but it's also love. 

The unconditional love that you've felt during your deepest peak experiences cannot be separated from your conceptualization of God. 

And your conceptualization of God was heavily influenced by religion. 

The key is to love All of reality, but also love it's impermanence. 

To accept all with non resistance but also with non attachment.

Religion can be powerful if you don't allow your beliefs to limit you from your experience of God. 

Jesus was religious by the way. Is Jesus bullshit too? 

Your title is "God CANNOT Be Separated from Religion" as if it wouldn't be the other way around, as if Religion is source and God man-made. Here you do it again "Could you exist without religion" and "Could awakening exist without religion". And no, a conceptualization of God doesn't have to be there prior to experiencing Absolute Truth. The only reason Mohammed Hijab converted you is because he's longing for this reward from Allah after this life is over. Everything he told you is for his own selfish desires. He brainwashed you through intellectual verbal communication. In my opinion you got some more work to do.

[Valwyndir]

11 minutes ago, SpiritualAwakening said:

Your title is "God CANNOT Be Separated from Religion" as if it wouldn't be the other way around, as if Religion is source and God man-made. Here you do it again "Could you exist without religion" and "Could awakening exist without religion". And no, a conceptualization of God doesn't have to be there prior to experiencing Absolute Truth. The only reason Mohammed Hijab converted you is because he's longing for this reward from Allah after this life is over. Everything he told you is for his own selfish desires. He brainwashed you through intellectual verbal communication. In my opinion you got some more work to do.

Have you ever experienced Absolute Truth without first conceptualizing it?

He did not brainwashed me. My brain only bathes in consciousness itself.

I simply imagined my character having an awakening into the delicate balance between concept and experience. 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Valwyndir

[Moksha]

Religious beliefs vs. Spirituality. 

Conditioned mind vs. Consciousness.

Ego vs. unconditional Love.

Specialness vs. Sameness.

Transient grasping vs. Being.

It's your story, choose the telling.

[Leo Gura]

@Valwyndir The practical problem with your position is that by celebrating religion too much it feeds directly into the delusions of religious people who then think to themselves, "Oh, good. That means I was right after all." And then they never deconstruct their religious beliefs and attachments -- which is absolutely crucial in this work.

So I would much rather tell a person who loves religion: "Religion is bullshit. Throw it all away. You won't miss anything." rather than telling them how wonderful religion is.

Mostly, religion is a virus and straight-jacket of the mind. Even though beneath that lies some deep truth. But you won't access that truth without being willing to throw away your religion. Hence the paradox of religion.

[Thought Art]

1 hour ago, Valwyndir said:

Was God here before humanity?

Have you ever directly experienced God before humanity?

Or, are you as God imagining itself existing before humanity?

Zeeeeeeen devilllrryyyy ahaha

"I can fart, but you can't"

I have experienced glimpses of infinity.

I know from those states I am eternal. Though, forgetfulness is a thing I am working with. and delusions too of course. This is the work.

You likely haven't experience any of your claims. Be careful in being double minded.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Thought Art

[Valwyndir]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Valwyndir The practical problem with your position is that by celebrating religion too much it feeds directly into the delusions of religious people who then think to themselves, "Oh, good. That means I was right after all." And then they never deconstruct their religious beliefs and attachments -- which is absolutely crucial in this work.

So I would much rather tell a person who loves religion: "Religion is bullshit. Throw it all away. You won't miss anything." rather than telling them how wonderful religion is.

Mostly, religion is a virus and straight-jacket of the mind. Even though beneath that lies some deep truth. But you won't access that truth without being willing to throw away your religion. Hence the paradox of religion.

I used to think this same exact way. It wasn't until I started having conversations with religious people about spirituality that my perspective switched. 

Everyone craves love. If you try to push spirituality upon a religious person by telling them religion is bad, their ego will fight back. 

It creates more separation when we're searching for unity. Egoic minds cannot feel love when someone tells them they're wrong.

What I've found works best for opening people's minds is embracing all their beliefs, but making it clear that their beliefs are not the finality of spiritual experience. 

The ego responds better to validation rather than invalidation. 

To dissolve the ego, it must first become a healthier ego. 

The only thing that's holding back mystical experience from being part of religion is how we define religion. 

Why not redefine religion and unite the world rather than create more separation? 

[Valwyndir]

3 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Zeeeeeeen devilllrryyyy ahaha

"I can fart, but you can't"

I have experienced glimpses of infinity.

I know from those states I am eternal.

You likely haven't experience any of your claims. Be careful in being double minded.

I can do nothing you can't, because I am you. 

These were questions designed to expand your mind, not questions that I claim to have the answers to. 

Ask yourself if you've ever experienced being God before you were a human. 

Ask yourself if it's possible for the duality between the conceptual mind and the experiential mind to collapse. 

[SpiritualAwakening]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Mostly, religion is a virus and straight-jacket of the mind. Even though beneath that lies some deep truth. But you won't access that truth without being willing to throw away your religion. Hence the paradox of religion.

This

1 hour ago, Valwyndir said:

Have you ever experienced Absolute Truth without first conceptualizing it?

 

Yes

1 hour ago, Valwyndir said:

I simply imagined my character having an awakening into the delicate balance between concept and experience. 

That's right, you imagined it, imagination can never lead up to an awakening. After all that you spoke out the Shahada and NOTHING changed. 

Edited February 1, 2021 by SpiritualAwakening

[Thought Art]

1 hour ago, Valwyndir said:

I can do nothing you can't, because I am you.  Don't distort what I am saying to you. You are being double minded.

These were questions designed to expand your mind, not questions that I claim to have the answers to. You are not a teacher to me. We are both Pilgrams.

Ask yourself if you've ever experienced being God before you were a human. - Got me there, what has that to do with religion? Other than I am not human...

Ask yourself if it's possible for the duality between the conceptual mind and the experiential mind to collapse. - Obviously I do this every night.

 

1 hour ago, Valwyndir said:

I used to think this same exact way. It wasn't until I started having conversations with religious people about spirituality that my perspective switched. -Keep going then.

Everyone craves love. If you try to push spirituality upon a religious person by telling them religion is bad, their ego will fight back.  True. So why would you embrace a closed minded system?

It creates more separation when we're searching for unity. Egoic minds cannot feel love when someone tells them they're wrong. - They can feel love for their ideology. I prefer real inner unity than false outer unity.

What I've found works best for opening people's minds is embracing all their beliefs, but making it clear that their beliefs are not the finality of spiritual experience. Depends on who you are working with. You also are not doing that right now. Devilry. "treat me this way.. but I won't treat you..."

The ego responds better to validation rather than invalidation. True. But why validate something that is invalid? I can acknowledge your point of view. Won't you acknowledge mine?

To dissolve the ego, it must first become a healthier ego. Not true at all. Do some actual spiritual work. The two work in tandem and it depends on the work you are doing... Yes... structure and state matter in this work.

The only thing that's holding back mystical experience from being part of religion is how we define religion. - Mystical experiences are part of the foundations of religion. But when we are looking for the absolute truth the dogmatic structures are a hard stop on actually finding truth. Most people who practice religion do not have these experiences.

Why not redefine religion and unite the world rather than create more separation? Religions are inherently seperation. It's slicing up reality for survival purposes. Welcome to mysticism where we are freeing out minds as God. Not sheep.

Roads? Where we are going we don't need roads.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Thought Art

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, Valwyndir said:

their ego will fight back.

In this works the ego fighting back is not a bug, it's a necessity.

[Valwyndir]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

In this works the ego fighting back is not a bug, it's a necessity.

Life is balance.

Open-mindedness is tricky.

Think about how expanding one's comfort zone works.

They key is to find an experience that entails the perfect amount of discomfort. 

Too much, and you won't do it at all. 

To little, and it doesn't expand your comfort zone. 

The same idea applies to the ego and language. 

Too threatening of language, the ego completely rejects the idea. 

Too safe of language, the mind does not expand. 

Find the perfect balance, though, and magic happens.    

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Valwyndir said:

Life is balance.

Open-mindedness is tricky.

Think about how expanding one's comfort zone works.

They key is to find an experience that entails the perfect amount of discomfort. 

Too much, and you won't do it at all. 

To little, and it doesn't expand your comfort zone. 

The same idea applies to the ego and language. 

Too threatening of language, the ego completely rejects the idea. 

Too safe of language, the mind does not expand. 

Find the perfect balance, though, and magic happens.    

Yes

You definitely don't want to attack and judge religious people or they get defensive.

I don't attack religion. But in the end, if I'm talking to a mature person, we can agree religion is cosplay.

[Valwyndir]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

Yes

You definitely don't want to attack and judge religious people or they get defensive.

I don't attack religion. But in the end, if I'm talking to a mature person, we can agree religion is bullshit.

Agreed.

[Thought Art]

Love you guys!

 

Self Love 

the maze of life

[Inliytened1]

@Thought Art  ❤

 

 

 

 

 

[Gesundheit]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

All religion is bullshit.

Likes apes doing cosplay as humans.

Whatever you think religion gives you, you will gain more by dropping it.

You haven't done it, Leo. You don't really know what religion is. Sometimes, I wish I could go back in time just to experience what being a true believer is like. It's nothing like anything else. It's maximum heaven, invincibility. Imagine being born within a primitive tribe and without even the possibility of knowing any better. Deep sleep is identical to awakening.

But the problem is that it's impossible to get everyone to adopt the same beliefs, because babies are not teenagers, and neither are adults, and male isn't female, etc... If everyone adopted the same beliefs (regardless of content), humanity would have been so much better, I assure you. It's the conflict between values and interests that creates all of our problems, which is devilry & corruption for the most part.

One united humanity is always bigger and better than two disagreeing parties.

And btw, you have a lot of judgements against religion, which are just your judgements, not ultimate reality. I think I can understand why you have them, it's probably because you gravitate more towards individualism than collectivism. But ultimately, I agree with Connor that religion is inevitable because it's part of God and you are religion, regardless of your content.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Gesundheit

[Vibroverse]

Being religious in my opinion is not about following Mohammad or Jesus or all of that crap. Being truly religious is to realize that you're those frickin assholes themselves. You're them. And you're both the devil and the god in them. It is all your darn mind. They don't exist as "others" as well. And yeah, they and all of that bs are your frickin imagination. 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Vibroverse

[Vibroverse]

Mohammad did a lot of terrible things, but he also did a lot of good things. Be one with his good deeds and let go of imagining his terrible deeds in detail. You get what you think about. You get what you feel since all is a frickin dream.