Why some people never change their spiral dynamic stage?

[tolo]

Many people never change their spiral dynamics stage. I know "red people" living in an "orange country" but staying red till the end of their human life.  Is it connected with the stage of the society in which we are living in? But if so, then why some people even reach a further stage, than the society they live in? 

[Snader]

Suffering motivates people to grow, but for some people it seems like no matter how much suffering they have they still stay close-minded and reluctant to question their beliefs and paradigms, so they end up living in their small comfortable bubble for the rest of their lives.

Moving beyond the center of gravity of your society and culture requires you to have vision and to do serious independent thinking and questioning, which tends to be extremely rare.

[Danioover9000]

@Snader

45 minutes ago, Snader said:

Suffering motivates people to grow, but for some people it seems like no matter how much suffering they have they still stay close-minded and reluctant to question their beliefs and paradigms, so they end up living in their small comfortable bubble for the rest of their lives.

Moving beyond the center of gravity of your society and culture requires you to have vision and to do serious independent thinking and questioning, which tends to be extremely rare.

   Where does the vision come from?

[Jennjenn]

7 hours ago, tolo said:

Many people never change their spiral dynamics stage. I know "red people" living in an "orange country" but staying red till the end of their human life.  Is it connected with the stage of the society in which we are living in? But if so, then why some people even reach a further stage, than the society they live in? 

I know someone like that, and I think he hasn’t evolve because of his personal trauma and antisocial tendencies. He isolates himself a lot and doesn’t like people, he’s very combative and seems to hate everyone.  This is mostly thanks to childhood trauma. So I’ll say one reason some people don’t move up the spiral is because of mental Health issues. 

[Thought Art]

What looks practical, intelligent and obvious to your stage makes you want to cling to it. Survival.

[Leo Gura]

Most people have no interest in developing themselves.

It is actually rare for someone to outgrow the stage they were raised in -- as that requires emotional labor and people are lazy.

It's extremely rare for someone to grow by 2 stages or more.

[Carl-Richard]

Why do people stop growing taller?

[Snader]

10 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Snader

   Where does the vision come from?

I don't mean vision for growing up the spiral in itself, but vision for something else than the default position, vision that leads you to make the right actions to grow. Christian doesn't leave his religion to live a sinful materialist life without a strive towards something, nor does a business CEO to become a hippie. In most cases the motivation could be suffering, but growing far beyond the level of your society doesn't happen with only negative motivation.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Snader

[tolo]

On 2/1/2021 at 2:58 AM, Leo Gura said:

Most people have no interest in developing themselves.

It is actually rare for someone to outgrow the stage they were raised in -- as that requires emotional labor and people are lazy.

It's extremely rare for someone to grow by 2 stages or more.

 

On 2/1/2021 at 8:24 AM, Snader said:

I don't mean vision for growing up the spiral in itself, but vision for something else than the default position, vision that leads you to make the right actions to grow. Christian doesn't leave his religion to live a sinful materialist life without a strive towards something, nor does a business CEO to become a hippie. In most cases the motivation could be suffering, but growing far beyond the level of your society doesn't happen with only negative motivation.

 

So what is the purpose of a human life then? Is it better to "actualize" your individual self and go higher in the spiral or should we better adapt the behavior of our environment and fit in the community? 

[Carl-Richard]

37 minutes ago, tolo said:

So what is the purpose of a human life then? Is it better to "actualize" your individual self and go higher in the spiral or should we better adapt the behavior of our environment and fit in the community? 

Growth involves adapting to the environment.

[tolo]

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Growth involves adapting to the environment.

How do you mean this? What do you mean exactly with adapting the environment? 

 

[Sunchild]

On 1/31/2021 at 7:58 PM, Leo Gura said:

Most people have no interest in developing themselves.

It is actually rare for someone to outgrow the stage they were raised in -- as that requires emotional labor and people are lazy.

It's extremely rare for someone to grow by 2 stages or more.

What If "developing" yourself arises organically, without any effort required, at all? WI it thus doesn't require anything more than just letting go of attachments to things that ultimately never mattered/that you never actually cared about to begin with?  WI It [Stage X] is your natural State, and you just Flow right towards it?  In which case you aren't "developing" anything at all, just becoming your most Essential Self?  Seems like the most natural thing in the world, does it not?

4 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Growth involves adapting to the environment.

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

---George Bernard Shaw

[tsuki]

6 hours ago, tolo said:

So what is the purpose of a human life then? Is it better to "actualize" your individual self and go higher in the spiral or should we better adapt the behavior of our environment and fit in the community? 

There is no purpose to human life other than the one chosen by the individual. We're here to express our uniqueness regardless of the relative development level.

Actually, it does not get any easier to do so at the higher spiral stages because responsibility is greater.

I agree with @Jennjenn, trauma is one of the most significant factors that stunts growth.

Edited February 2, 2021 by tsuki

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, tolo said:

How do you mean this? What do you mean exactly with adapting the environment? 

The two things you mentioned are not mutually exclusive. They're actually codependent. To self-actualize, you can't completely neglect your environment.

[Thewritersunion]

“ Look at me, I am infinite but not infinity. “

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, Sunchild said:

What If "developing" yourself arises organically, without any effort required, at all?

And what if every street only went downhill?

[Frylock]

Survival is the name of the game.

The Sentinelese will stay stage purple forever. They are cut off from all outside human contact and have no reason to grow out of that stage. They're suriviving just fine.

[Roy]

It's as simple as this: If their survival strategy is working well enough in their environment, what incentive do they have to change?

A conservative stage blue farmer is never going to give a fuck about rampant stage orange capitalism or stage green social issues and feel the need to develop themselves in the face of those things if their life has more or less worked out for them with little resistance.

They got married, raised some kids, had a steady honest job for 40+ years and now own a decent home and can retire. If that's all they value and it's been accomplished it literally feels to them that they have reality figured out and they don't need to do any better. This is why most people die at the stage they are raised in. It just has to work out to a certain minimum level and that's it.

Appreciate the fact that any of us being interested in developing ourselves is a major stroke of luck. Just the fact that you're aware of spiral dynamics or any sort of personal development puts you in a crazy high percentile of privilege, let alone having the luxury and resources to pursue such things.

 

 

[sholomar]

20 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

And what every street only went downhill?

Agreed... to grow requires eating the vegetables and discomfort. One of my issues with the progressives, and I see it here, is too many of them want to give people a fish, rather than teach them to fish. I acknowledge I'm still too addicted to political forums and much of my own egoic dogma as well. You either choose to embrace new habits and the emotional labor involved or not. There really is no quick fix or magic pill for this. It's going to require discomfort. We  live in a society that wants to be comfortable all the time and I think that's one of the challenges we need to look at. It's a balancing act for me.. the ying and the yang.

Edited February 3, 2021 by sholomar

[AlyK]

17 hours ago, sholomar said:

Agreed... to grow requires eating the vegetables and discomfort. One of my issues with the progressives, and I see it here, is too many of them want to give people a fish, rather than teach them to fish. I acknowledge I'm still too addicted to political forums and much of my own egoic dogma as well. You either choose to embrace new habits and the emotional labor involved or not. There really is no quick fix or magic pill for this. It's going to require discomfort. We  live in a society that wants to be comfortable all the time and I think that's one of the challenges we need to look at. It's a balancing act for me.. the ying and the yang.

Not yet, but education systems will surely be developed & adapted to teach kids about mental/psychological exercise & development- in the same way that we had a physical health revolution, there will be a mental health revolution. After a few generations of kids learning that stuff from their earliest years, they will naturally have that desire to develop (as they do when learning languages) & everything in their environment will support it.