Marilyn Manson woke for his time

[AtheisticNonduality]

Welp, I guess no more Manson albums on any MeToo-sympathizing labels.

[JosephKnecht]

On 2/7/2021 at 8:31 PM, intotheblack said:

Both are responsible.  And both are unconscious to different degrees.  Still doesn’t mean the ‘victim’ deserves to be punished for their unconsciousness... they don’t even know they are unconscious.  And both had lack of self love.  Now the victim has more self love and has awakened more and can see their past unconsciousness. 

Exactly. Both are responsible. 

The hard truth is that the victim chose to raise their consciousness through the abuse. 

Manson as the "abuser" is more culpable, because perhaps he abused the weakness of others, but notice that if there was no weakness there would be no abuse.

The ultimate weakness is a low level of consciousness. 

[AtheisticNonduality]

@JosephKnecht What we can agree is that this is an unfortunate situation.

[ZenAlex]

On 01/02/2021 at 1:47 PM, intotheblack said:

So turns out he’s a master manipulator.   
Today Evan Rachel wood as announced she was abused by Manson back when they were together.  She had previously not named him until now... 

Could he be psychopathic? 

 

He was proven innocent, how do you feel back that?

[Emerald]

I used to be a huge Manson fan when I was in my early high school years. 

And when I first got acquainted with him at age 14, I saw him as someone who was more awake than most… an enlightened intellectual in miscreant’s attire. And I loved the ironic juxtaposition of those two qualities.

He was certainly a lot more aware than his Satanic Panic critics or his bewildered interviewers.

But that illusion of his “wokeness” faded over the years when I realized there wasn’t actually a lot of there, there. He’s not really that deep, in actuality.

My take on Manson is that he is mostly Stage Orange with a smattering of Green

And he has a huge Blue Shadow!

And he romanticizes Red in his music.

This is what initially drew me toward him. I had some Stage Red deficits from childhood. And I used my teen years to compensate for this deficit through various acts of rebellion, iconoclasm, and mild unlawfulness.

So, the romanticization of Red with little hints of Green peppered in was very attractive to me at the time.

And he creates this Red/Green concoction while criticizing Blue very heavily and criticizing Capitalist Orange every now and again.

But unfortunately because he romanticizes Stage Red as a part of his art and persona… this has led him into some very predatory behaviors.

He is definitely an example of someone who got lost in his persona.

So he’s a Stage Orange guy who seeks to position himself as wiser and more intellectual that the Stage Blue sheeple… with a Stage Red appearance/performance and Orange/Green intellectual accoutrements.

[ZenAlex]

3 hours ago, Emerald said:

I used to be a huge Manson fan when I was in my early high school years. 

And when I first got acquainted with him at age 14, I saw him as someone who was more awake than most… an enlightened intellectual in miscreant’s attire. And I loved the ironic juxtaposition of those two qualities.

He was certainly a lot more aware than his Satanic Panic critics or his bewildered interviewers.

But that illusion of his “wokeness” faded over the years when I realized there wasn’t actually a lot of there, there. He’s not really that deep, in actuality.

My take on Manson is that he is mostly Stage Orange with a smattering of Green

And he has a huge Blue Shadow!

And he romanticizes Red in his music.

This is what initially drew me toward him. I had some Stage Red deficits from childhood. And I used my teen years to compensate for this deficit through various acts of rebellion, iconoclasm, and mild unlawfulness.

So, the romanticization of Red with little hints of Green peppered in was very attractive to me at the time.

And he creates this Red/Green concoction while criticizing Blue very heavily and criticizing Capitalist Orange every now and again.

But unfortunately because he romanticizes Stage Red as a part of his art and persona… this has led him into some very predatory behaviors.

He is definitely an example of someone who got lost in his persona.

So he’s a Stage Orange guy who seeks to position himself as wiser and more intellectual that the Stage Blue sheeple… with a Stage Red appearance/performance and Orange/Green intellectual accoutrements.

It's kind of sad how some of you all take this spiral dynamics crap a bit too seriously, you almost sound as bad as the people who are obsessed with MBTI.

The reality of the matter is his music and his personality has inspired a lot of people to express themselves more and challenge things. He's far from perfect, but he just shows himself largely as he is. Even though he obviously puts on make up and performs/acts, which is natural because he's an artist, he doesn't really seem like he cares about appearing like he's above his base nature, but as you say he wants to appear above "blue" because he hates conformity more than anything else which is what blue represents more than anything else. 

That's just the thing he despises the most, and that's ok. 

If you watch his interviews he's obviously a smart guy, if he lets himself down anywhere it's likely in over-indulgence ruining some of his performances.

I like the fact that there's a hint of what you call RED in him, because not one single person on this forum is absent a bit of red.

He's just being honest about what he is to some degree. 

As he says... hold the S because I am an Aint. 

[Basman]

Used to have a cringy obsession with listening to Manson music when I was a teen, so I have some thought about the guy.

Relative to personal development, Marilyn Manson very much carries the personality of an artist. I think he is likely quiet self-aware listening to his interviews and podcasts. It is hard to say what he really is like without getting creepy because Marilyn Manson is such a stage persona, divorced from his day-to-day self. I don't feel like he is meant to be taken completely seriously, but more as a commentary and an artistic self-expression in of itself.

But he does somewhat betray his age when you look at his works today. especially his older stuff. Manson is very much a product of his time. His misceant and macabre style clearly reflects his dueling with the originally protestant culture that he comes from and that was more prevalent in the 70s and 80s. Playing with the macabre especially juxtaposes what is normally expected and creates a space where a sort of genuineness can be explored. Or just flips things on their head.

My favorite album is Pale Emperor. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Basman

[Emerald]

4 hours ago, ZenAlex said:

It's kind of sad how some of you all take this spiral dynamics crap a bit too seriously, you almost sound as bad as the people who are obsessed with MBTI.

The reality of the matter is his music and his personality has inspired a lot of people to express themselves more and challenge things. He's far from perfect, but he just shows himself largely as he is. Even though he obviously puts on make up and performs/acts, which is natural because he's an artist, he doesn't really seem like he cares about appearing like he's above his base nature, but as you say he wants to appear above "blue" because he hates conformity more than anything else which is what blue represents more than anything else. 

That's just the thing he despises the most, and that's ok. 

If you watch his interviews he's obviously a smart guy, if he lets himself down anywhere it's likely in over-indulgence ruining some of his performances.

I like the fact that there's a hint of what you call RED in him, because not one single person on this forum is absent a bit of red.

He's just being honest about what he is to some degree. 

As he says... hold the S because I am an Aint. 

You’re coming off a bit judgmental in your post. Do you think you’re better than other people because you choose to forego using models to talk about things?

Spiral dynamics is just another model to use to communicate about things…. just like MBTI is… just like Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs is… just like OCEAN is.

And models are very effective for understanding and communication because they provide clarity about complex phenomena by delineating categories with firm definitions.

That’s why they are constructed in the first place… to make complex phenomena comprehensible to the human intellect.

So don’t be too surprised when a lot of people on this forum use SD as a framework to communicate the ideas that they’re trying to get across. 

And you seem to be quite offended by my take on Manson. And I’m honestly not sure why.

I still enjoy a lot of his music. And it was an important facet of my life precisely because of his Red romanticization. 

But after a few years, I could recognize him as someone who got way too wrapped up in his stage persona.

[Emerald]

On 2/8/2021 at 5:28 PM, JosephKnecht said:

Exactly. Both are responsible. 

The hard truth is that the victim chose to raise their consciousness through the abuse. 

Manson as the "abuser" is more culpable, because perhaps he abused the weakness of others, but notice that if there was no weakness there would be no abuse.

The ultimate weakness is a low level of consciousness. 

This just sounds like a way to victim blame… spiritual bypassing style.

[Emerald]

On 2/5/2021 at 6:25 AM, JosephKnecht said:

I don't like this victim mentality. 

To become a victim you must admit ignorance. For if you were not ignorant you won't fall for a manipulator. 

To become a victim you must surrender your power. For if you never surrendered your power, how can the other manipulate you.

It is ignorant to look at someone like Merlin Manson and expect that he would treat you like other "normal" guy. Merlin Manson wears his personality on his sleeves. If you are too blind to see it, you need to fix your eyes. 

You’re so wrapped up in ‘anti-victim’s mentality’ mentality that you put the onus of blame more on the victim than on the perpetrator.

When a person pendulum swings themselves into ‘anti-victim’s mentality’ mentality a person becomes cold and callous to the suffering of themselves and others.

And it’s a very self-hating mentality because they will often downplay their suffering and keep their pain to themselves. And they can judge themselves harshly and feel shame for exhibiting any sign of weakness. And it makes them quite fragile for this reason.

Also, I used to dress quite a bit like Manson and express dark themes in my art. And it was ignorant when people assumed that type of thing about me.

And Alice Cooper never had this kind of track record despite being the OG shock rocker.

And I’ve known plenty of gothy folks. And most of them are kinder than the average person.

So, it wasn’t ignorant of them to assume that Manson wasn’t a threat to them. That’s just a basic assumption if you realize that someone’s attire doesn’t determine their character.

But Manson probably learned that he could portray his wolf in wolves’ clothing as being a sheep in wolves’ clothing. And this could disarm a lot of people into believing or wanting to believe that his stage persona is only a stage persona.

[ZenAlex]

40 minutes ago, Emerald said:

You’re coming off a bit judgmental in your post. Do you think you’re better than other people because you choose to forego using models to talk about things?

Spiral dynamics is just another model to use to communicate about things…. just like MBTI is… just like Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs is… just like OCEAN is.

And models are very effective for understanding and communication because they provide clarity about complex phenomena by delineating categories with firm definitions.

That’s why they are constructed in the first place… to make complex phenomena comprehensible to the human intellect.

So don’t be too surprised when a lot of people on this forum use SD as a framework to communicate the ideas that they’re trying to get across. 

And you seem to be quite offended by my take on Manson. And I’m honestly not sure why.

I still enjoy a lot of his music. And it was an important facet of my life precisely because of his Red romanticization. 

But after a few years, I could recognize him as someone who got way too wrapped up in his stage persona.

I was irritable lol I just saw your post and it reminds me of people who talk about things too much through a lense like MBTI or star signs and shit.

It does irritate me a bit.

I guess I just find them limiting and don't understand why we can't just talk about people as individuals rather than always categorizing them.

It's like the whole ALPHA, BETA, SIGMA B/S I keep seeing.

I do agree with your final sentence though, however I think he may be self-aware about his attempt to play characters like the anti-christ. 

I almost think he knows what he's doing and doesn't feel the need to be above it.

I don't think his desire is to wake up that much, but to just do what feels good for him, express himself and help people in the limited way he can while being a bit dysfunctional in his life.

I was offended but I get that's not your fault.

Edited February 28, 2023 by ZenAlex

[Lila9]

I don't know but I love his drawn lashes in the first video ?