The External World Does Exist: Reality is more than Consciousness

[Blackhawk]

4 minutes ago, Vibroverse said:

How do you know that? 

I don't know. Which proves my point.

[Vibroverse]

1 minute ago, Blackhawk said:

I don't know. Which proves my point.

You think you know that noone knows. How do you know that? And I'm not just playing with words. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Vibroverse

[abrakamowse]

16 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

Can everyone just stop thinking that they know. No one knows.

No one is thinking

[Blackhawk]

7 minutes ago, Vibroverse said:

You think you know that noone knows. How do you know that? And I'm not just playing with words. 

No I don't.

[Nahm]

@r0ckyreed

Some inquiry questions came to mind. Use if useful. ?

If there’s nothing more than this - what is it exactly which you believe could be grasped?

If you’re imagining Vegas, refrigerators, external world, etc, if other people do and or do not have experiences, what is thought attachment?

Would the ‘experience of all experiences’ still be, your present experience? 

Have you actually ever experienced ‘holding traumas in their imagination within your imagination’? You actually experience that? 

Have you any direct experience whatsoever of imagining reality? Can you describe that direct experience? 

How do you know what your dog is experiencing? Isn’t that your experience (of your dog)? 

How could ‘only your perspective be absolute truth’ ?  How does that differ from solipsism? How does that differ from believing that to be true? What if another perspective arises, and another, and another...and they conflict with each other? Why is “absolute truth” a filter of inquiry of perspectives?

What are “perceptual bubbles”? Ever directly experienced that? How does it differ from solipsism, and or a belief? What is “that” ? 

What, exactly, is ‘backlash’, and who, exactly, is having it? What is the “it” in this case, precisely, exactly? 

What is “egoic consciousness”, literally, what is that? Can you find it? Locate it? Describe it? 

What is the goal of conceptualizing, or ‘figuring out’? What is this in the literal sense, other than thoughts? 

What is “in” experience, which is not: thought, perception, and feeling? 

Is being you like the experience of people? 

Again, if it’s useful use it. The best bet of course, is no mind. No concepts. No figuring out. Just being. Insights, epiphanies, revelation, the apocalypse, etc, come from source. From silence. From ‘within’. Not from experience. 

When done conceptualizing (if ever), try using meditation and the emotional scale, and walking yourself back to yourself, so to speak. The ‘paradigm’ of feeling. Quieting the mind into the true nature, sinking the mind into the heart, if you will. 

[r0ckyreed]

Thanks to all who posted so far. I pretty much read all of the posts and appreciate all your responses. I think it makes sense what you all are saying. I am going to have to keep doing my deep work to figure this stuff out. It is so easy for society to suck me into materialism.
 

I think my main obstacle now is that I am a blind man who hasn’t seen the rainbow yet. And you all probably have seen the rainbow and are trying to describe it to the blind man (me). 

[The Buddha]

15 hours ago, Osaid said:

This is especially important with this specific insight, otherwise the ego just panics. Good reply.

I'm glad you valued my post

[Ook]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That is you dreaming.

Future is fantasy.

"After this X will happen" << That is the dream!

Stop imaging stuff beyond what is presently experienced. Stop imagining a past, a future, an Earth, atoms, people, etc. Stop doing it and be fully present.

Isn't being present also a dream? Or you break free by being fully present?

[Danioover9000]

   Can I mentally design my life using visions?

[Nivsch]

@r0ckyreed Every stage thinks that his thinking is complete and he reached the finish line. What stage coral thinks about this? We still dont know.

Which means you can only trust yourself (but do the work).

But, its useful to listen to the variety of perspectives.

I think more like you in this specific thread.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Nivsch

[The Buddha]

3 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

   Can I mentally design my life using visions?

@Danioover9000 The more energy you put in a future the more probable it is to manifest. Understand that this doesn't work with the lottery or other things, because there is a lot of people also putting energy in the future they want.

[Eren Eeager]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You are profoundly underestimating the illusion. Even "enlightened" teachers like Spira or Shinzen or Ramaji underestimate it. They are not fully awake. Still trapped in illusions, bullshitting themselves and their imaginary students.

What are they lacking exactly? 

What illusions they are still trapped in?

[Leo Gura]

10 hours ago, Mannyb said:

Are you saying that as this is a dream there would be no limits to awakening, infinite degrees?  We could only ever be partially awake, that would be the point of dreaming? Wouldn’t such a progressive path imply time?
On the other hand, we are God & wouldn’t being aware of that fact be full awakening in the ever present now?

I don't know if there is infinite awakening literally. But there are many degrees of them for sure.

For example, many so called awakened people are not actually conscious of what God is. Because that requires deeper awakening.

10 hours ago, Vibroverse said:

So I am constantly imagining a past and a future in the eternal now, and they exist because I am imagining them, having that fantasy. 

Exactly!

9 hours ago, Vibroverse said:

So I am literally imagining people into being. I've created every human. 

Yup, where else could they come from but your imagination? You are God imagining a world. It's very similar to how video game rendering works, except the computer doing the rendering is also just imaginary!

9 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

@Leo Gura Thanks for your time. It is just hard for me to grasp how there is nothing more than this. I am I get how I am imagining you, Las Vegas, and my refrigerator (at the moment), but yet, I still believe that you exist and are having your own experiences as an ego in Las Vegas.

That is the ultimate illusion.

That is a fantasy of yours.

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I get how I can never truly verify an external world and other minds epistemically or metaphysically, but even if I could, that would break the whole illusion of self vs. other. Because if I could experience all experiences consciously and simultaneously, then the ego would be dead.

What I am saying is that you can absolutely verify that only you exist and everyone else is imaginary.

This is not a matter of disproving solpsism. This is a matter of proving it.

You can do that since you are all there is! See how elegant it is? You don't need to crawl into my head to check, you just need to become conscious that "Leo's head" is a fantasy. Which you can do if you are seeious enough.

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The thing I have trouble with is that it is really to discount other people as having experiences.

Yes, it's hard to accept because it's so radical.

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So if I were to counsel a person who is telling me about their traumas and needs help, I get that the traumas they experienced are being held in their imagination within my imagination in our session, but it seems invalidating to say that they never had that experience and they don’t even exist. It’s difficult to explain, and I appreciate you all’s explanations.

Yes, exactly. You see, that is how God fools himself into buying the illusion. God fools you with your compassion and care for others. Your desire to help others and comfort them is a huge part of the illusion you have spun for yourself. This emotional hook keeps you locked in the dream. The dream would not feel real unless it had powerful emotional hooks.

What is a more powerful emotional hook than seeing your daughter get raped?

God is a trickster of the highest order. God uses every emotion against you to fool you.

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Another reason is that my dog (black lab) is so intelligent. My dog can sense my parents’ cars by the sound they make crossing our bridge! It’s absolutely insane! My dog is like many other humans in that they believe in an external world.

Just a trick of God.

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Does my dog even exist when I am not seeing it?

Of course not.

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my dog goes crazy. I can hear him whimpering and scratching the door. In another instance, my friend is playing basketball outside while my dog and I are inside and the dog “knows” that it is my friend.

You don't even have a dog. You just invented your dog right now!

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It just blows my mind.

Correct

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It is difficult to see the evidence that my experience is It because it seems like we are all experiencing fractals of this universe. Whether or not an actual plane of reality exists outside my own is still unknown to me.

Take some 5-MeO-DMT

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Couldn’t it be that Consciousness divided itself into all of the private worlds in the world and that it is not the world we are experiencing, but instead the dream we are creating together as the Godhead that experiencing all perspectives of itself?

No

There is only ONE perspective. Yours.

It's about energy efficiency. God saves energy my only creating ONE bubble. Why would God waste energy on others when they are not needed? Seriously. Think about it.

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I apologize if I am not making sense. It just seems like when we state that only our perspective is Absolute Truth, it seems to be missing all of the worlds of the 7 billion people and the billions of animals, and the aliens from other planets, etc. etc.

Not missing.

They were always just aspects of your absolute perspective.

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 but couldn’t it be the case that even though Consciousness is Oneness, that within Oneness contains all other perceptual bubbles for which I as an ego will never have access to?

No

You tell yourself this to stay locked into the illusion.

God sees all. What you see now is all that God sees. God cannot hide anything from itself.

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Which includes the idea that there may be more to reality than my experience; hence, if there wasn’t, then who or what am I writing to? You may answer that I am talking to myself, which I assume means myself as in the God Universe rather than the ego experience, but the myself for whom I am writing to is an experience beyond this egoic experience I am having now. Right?)

You are talking to yourself, obviously. Nothing else could happen.

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Gosh it’s hard.

Yes, because you resist it. If you accept it, it's so easy.

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I appreciate your all’s time.

My pleasure

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When I say I think there is something beyond myself, I am saying there is more to life than this egoic consciousness or experience. There are many worlds that I believe exist even though I am trapped with my own egoic experience (the egoic experience is everything I am experiencing that separates me from the rest of the world). An example is that there seem to be many worlds which I don’t have access to within this dream such as:

-blind/deaf worlds

- PTSD, psychosis, and other mental disorder worlds

- colorblind worlds

- the world of an owl, cat, or toad, etc.

? Thank you!

Look, what I am saying does not preclude you from visiting other worlds, so to speak. You can get on a rocket ship and fly to Mars explore it and it will feel real. And you might even meet some aliens there, fuck one of them, and have a baby together. But all that will just be happening as your experience.

6 hours ago, Ook said:

Isn't being present also a dream?

It is a dream, but it is also Absolute Truth -- if you are conscious enough.

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Or you break free by being fully present?

Yeah, you break free of being lost in the fantastical mind.

1 hour ago, Eren Eeager said:

What are they lacking exactly? 

What illusions they are still trapped in?

Spira, for example, believes in other minds as real. He's not conscious that he is imagining them.

Shinzen does not understand God or Infinity.

Ramaji is deluded as fuck with his 1000 system and his diety worship.

[Juliano Zn]

@Leo Gura So the fear of being delusional and egotistic by thinking that only my perspective exists is another way that I keep myself locked in the dream correct?

 

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Juliano Zn said:

@Leo Gura So the fear of being delusional and egotistic by thinking that only my perspective exists is another way that I keep myself locked in the dream correct?

Yes, your entire mind is just a bag of tricks you use to keep yourself locked in the illusion.

Even your birth. It did not happen. Just a trick of your mind. You have existed here/now forever, imagining shit around you, like births and deaths.

[Juliano Zn]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, your entire mind is just a bag of tricks you use to keep yourself locked in the illusion.

Even your birth. It did not happen. Just a trick of your mind.

If I focus on noticing the things I'm imagining as being real but outside the present moment, I see they are imagination/thoughts. 

So the way to awaken is just to keep noticing how I imagine a world outside my perspective? 

[vladorion]

Is God a masochist?

[Leo Gura]

32 minutes ago, Juliano Zn said:

So the way to awaken is just to keep noticing how I imagine a world outside my perspective? 

That's good but won't be enough.

Take some psychedelics.

23 minutes ago, vladorion said:

Is God a masochist?

Nope, God is Love.

[Juliano Zn]

@Leo Gura Thank you.

[Yali]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Ramaji is deluded as fuck with his 1000 system and his diety worship

@Leo Gura

his book is on your book-list