The External World Does Exist: Reality is more than Consciousness

[abrakamowse]

53 minutes ago, SourceCodo said:

Redacted. 

I'd just say that I learned it's important to tread carefully in our life and with the people we interact with. Especially the ideas we entertain. I live my life more like the video below these days. 

 

Awesome, thanks for sharing!!!

?

[Galyna]

On 2/1/2021 at 0:24 AM, Leo Gura said:

There is a further wrinkle here. Since imagination is reality, you could say that by imagining others you make them "real". In a relative sense. You literally create others in the way you create rocks and cars. So.... if you want to play life like others are real, you can. Nothing is really taken away from you. You can dive into and out of the illusion and enjoy it from both angles.

It's like a video game. It doesn't have to be "real" to be fun. Enjoy the game as a game. Don't take it too seriously.

Everything makes absolute sense to me.

The only thing I contemplate is how does it (Consciousness) set the parameters for the dream, for so-called appearance of reality.

For instance, in the dream this body is a female vs male, born in Russia vs US, having a boy vs a girl (kid), met this person vs that person. Or is it just a random luck? Since I am not in control of the dream, there is no individual, but it seems that this dream has certain parameters. Others are not real, no problem, I got it, but who controls the scenario, or it happens randomly. I want to know this to understand and see the bigger picture. Were the parameters set prior to the dream to have certain experiences so consciousness could expend and evolve having this experience of being Galyna?

Others are not real, but they provoke this hero of the dream, Galyna, to make certain actions. What does consciousness need this hero, Galyna, to understand by creating certain scenario in her life. People are not real, all the arrows point back at the hero of the dream. I hope you understand my question. Tomorrow I will be harmed by my neighbor, for example. Neighbor is not real and does not have a cognitive properties. "I" am the only player in the dream.  I'll sit on my couch trying to understand why this event has happened, can not blame anyone, right? Neighbor is not real. But would not hurt to know why the event happened, what is there for me to learn. I want to understand the game of the consciousness for this hero and for this dream. 

As soon as I get the reason, or rules of the game for this hero, it will be easier to drop certain desires that create suffering. But I need to know the purpose of the game, like what consciousness needs to learn from this experience.  

 

Thanks.

Edited February 2, 2021 by Galyna

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Galyna said:

The only thing I contemplate is how does it (Consciousness) set the parameters for the dream, for so-called appearance of reality.

Infinity!

The details of it cannot ever be resolved.

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For instance, in the dream this body is a female vs male, born in Russia vs US, having a boy vs a girl (kid), met this person vs that person. Or is it just a random luck?

It's not luck, it's Infinite Love.

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Since I am not in control of the dream, there is no individual, but it seems that this dream has certain parameters. Others are not real, no problem, I got it, but who controls the scenario, or it happens randomly.

You do, silly! You are God. You create every detail of your dream.

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Others are not real, but they provoke this hero of the dream, Galyna, to make certain actions. What does consciousness need this hero, Galyna, to understand by creating certain scenario in her life. People are not real, all the arrows point back at the hero of the dream. I hope you understand my question.

The answer is too profound to put into words or logic.

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Tomorrow I will be harmed by my neighbor, for example. Neighbor is not real and does not have a cognitive properties. "I" am the only player in the dream.  I'll sit on my couch trying to understand why this event has happened, can not blame anyone, right? Neighbor is not real. But would not hurt to know why the event happened, what is there for me to learn. I want to understand the game of the consciousness for this hero and for this dream.

You're not going to understand that way.

Take 5-MeO-DMT.

[Galyna]

36 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Infinity!

The details of it cannot ever be resolved.

It's not luck, it's Infinite Love.

You do, silly! You are God. You create every detail of your dream.

The answer is too profound to put into words or logic.

You're not going to understand that way.

Take 5-MeO-DMT.

Nothing can be more tastier than freedom and I love it. Freedom from all the suffering, conditions, everything....

Suffering is not that strong anymore, whatever is left is invincible. I love it, love it, love it. 5-Meo? I think I am ready.

Thank you, Leo.

 

 

[PopoyeSailor]

I myself never had an awakening yet.

But, based on listening to many people's experiences and reading a lot of literature on non-duality, it all points to the fact that there is no such a thing called this is a possibility and that is not. The moment you have imagined it, in a way you have already created it, in whatever subtle form it is being thought of currently.

Solipsism is a possibility and if one is capable, one can experience it vividly within one's own mind space by projecting a whole universe and its reality and experience it with full, partial or no control of what can be and what cannot be within it. But, it is only one way of experiencing the reality. Not so very useful for external social interaction.

In the external world you are just a character within the imaginary dream of another mind(Which we call as universe). There can be infinite such minds. This is just like how a whole universe is projected in our night dream.

As a character you have your own mind, so does others. Other minds are not unreal. they are as real as yours. But then, what is real and unreal? Everything is a projection of consciousness like a mirage in the desert. Can you say mirage itself doesn't exist? Or can you say that the water that appears in the mirage is real? It is both real and unreal, yet being neither at the same time. Such is the nature of our experience too. It exists without existing. It is real yet unreal while being neither at the same time.

Different categories of minds have different characteristics.

Whatever one's disposition is, one experiences his thoughts and reality accordingly. This is true even in enlightenment so far as I have seen, with different people explaining their enlightenment experiences differently. But, there is a certain underlying fundamental reality that exists which is present and same and unchanging in all those experiences and it is that which projects all of this, which different people call differently, namely: GOD/CONSCIOUSNESS/EMPTINESS/NOTHINGNESS etc..

 

The Consciousness/God Can project itself as limited, unlimited, partial, full, or whatever.. it can project itself as anything and everything without any restriction. 

 

The statement: Everything is a dream is true, from the Absolute perspective. As is everything is real, from the Relative perspective.

 

Consciousness as a whole oneness can and does project infinite realities within itself all the time. What one experiences may not be what another experience. That does not mean that the other person does not have a mind of their own with own feelings, emotions and a whole life of their own. They do.

There are certain instances where people have experienced the experiences of others as their own. One such example is the story of somebody who experienced a life of some future person during Ramana Maharishi's time. There are stories in ancient literature of one person experiencing the experiences of another like they are experiencing it directly by themselves.

Please do not underestimate Consciousness and reality. It is far more mysterious than anyone could ever imagine.

The moment a person says that this is how it is and it cannot be any other way. They have already limited their experience from experiencing those other things. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by PopoyeSailor

[Moksha]

5 minutes ago, PopoyeSailor said:

Consciousness as a whole oneness can and does project infinite realities within itself all the time. What one experiences may not be what another experience. That does not mean that the other person does not have a mind of their own with own feelings, emotions and a whole life of their own. They do.

There are certain instances where people have experienced the experiences of others as their own. One such example is the story of somebody who experienced a life of some future person during Ramana Maharishi's time. There are stories in ancient literature of one person experiencing the experiences of another like they are experiencing it directly by themselves.

Please do not underestimate Consciousness and reality. It is far more mysterious than anyone could ever imagine.

Well said. Consciousness is infinitely more profound than any of us can comprehend. And yet we still try to comprehend it with the mind. It's human nature, I suppose.

I think of it as a cosmic library, filled with stories on every shelf. Choose just one aisle, walk along it, read every story you come across, and you will never reach the end of even that one aisle. Now extend the aisles infinitely, in all directions.

Consciousness isn't just the author. It is isn't just the character in the story. It isn't just the reader. It is the library itself. Beyond even the cosmic library, it is the divine space in which the library resides. It is constantly writing, reading, immersing, realizing, and being Reality.

You are just one character in one book in that cosmic library. You, and the other characters that share your story, are worthy of honor. When your child is born, rejoice. When your mother dies, mourn. Who cares how incomprehensibly vast the library is, and how microcosmically small your story is? Love your story and celebrate it. You, and the your loved ones, are created by God, who is Yourself, after all.

[abrakamowse]

37 minutes ago, PopoyeSailor said:

The moment a person says that this is how it is and it cannot be any other way. They have already limited their experience from experiencing those other things. 

Well said!

[Javfly33]

@Moksha And yet Leo is saying there ain't others. So the question about other people's lives or experiences wouldn't make sense. You would only be imagining that to not feel alone.

And actually if you think about it, it makes sense. The last thing the ego would have to surrender is the fact that the ego is actually God and only what is the case (actuality) exists .

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by Javfly33

[Moksha]

9 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

@Moksha And yet Leo is saying there ain't others. So the question about other people's lives or experiences wouldn't make sense. You would only be imagining that to not feel alone.

And actually if you think about it, it makes sense. The last thing the ego would have to surrender is the fact that the ego is actually God and only what is the case (actuality) exists .

Leo is speaking from an ultimate perspective. There is only One.

From a relative perspective, there are infinite others.

You are other. You are also One.

You are one character in one story. You are also the entire cosmic library, created and contained by God.

The mind likes to think categorically: I am this, or I am that. This is the trap of solipsism. The mind is incapable of understanding how all of this and that can be contained within, and mysteriously still be part of God.

If you want to understand it, beyond the mind, read the Bhagavad Gita, or any other source that opens your spiritual eyes. It is a wisdom that surpasses conceptual understanding.

[abrakamowse]

19 minutes ago, Moksha said:

You are other. You are also One.

That's what religions say about Jesus, that he was human and God... same thing, different words.

 

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If you want to understand it, beyond the mind, read the Bhagavad Gita, or any other source that opens your spiritual eyes. It is a wisdom that surpasses conceptual understanding.

Is there any version of the Bhagavad Gita with no commentaries? A good one? Because what I found is full of commentaries and sometimes I get confused what is actually the Gita and what's a commentary

Lol...

I have one that was given to me by a Hare Krishna... hehehe

Edited February 3, 2021 by abrakamowse

[Moksha]

@abrakamowse True, and there is the Christian quandary of the holy trinity. Jesus taught that he had a Father, and also said that he and his Father are One

On the Bhagavad Gita, I highly recommend the translation by Eknath Easwaran. You don't have to read the commentaries, which precede each chapter, but they provide valuable context, and are worth contemplating, in their own right.

[Javfly33]

37 minutes ago, Moksha said:

 

From a relative perspective, there are infinite others.

 

 

Unfortunately no matter how much I read i can't seem to get it.

Please notice I don't want a belief or a perspective or an idea. Not trying to be a dick tho just saying it's important for me I must verify that there are others. Anything else will be a belief.

Verifying that there are others ----> experiencing others.

Therefore, either A) you remember being other person as God, B) You have switched to being another person and you remember it, C) You are alone as God.

See, the idea of "there are others being experienced by God now" it's a belief. Because it's not actualjty. If you are God you must be experiencing them Now as an actuality! 

I Probably will have to do more trips. But I'm deeply skeptical too people are talking from direct experience here.

[abrakamowse]

9 minutes ago, Moksha said:

@abrakamowse True, and there is the Christian quandary of the holy trinity. Jesus taught that he had a Father, and also said that he and his Father are One

Exactly...

9 minutes ago, Moksha said:

On the Bhagavad Gita, I highly recommend the translation by Eknath Easwaran. You don't have to read the commentaries, which precede each chapter, but they provide valuable context, and are worth contemplating, in their own right.

Great, thanks! I will check that one!!!

[abrakamowse]

@Javfly33 If something is the source of everything. That something has to be ONE thing. Right?

So anything that appears in that ONE thing is part of it, so it's unreal in the sense that is part of the whole, not a separated being.

Do you agree with that? Or what do you think about that "logic"?

Edited February 3, 2021 by abrakamowse

[Javfly33]

5 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

@Javfly33 If something is the source of everything. That something has to be ONE thing. Right?

So anything that appears in that ONE thing is part of it, so it's unreal in the sense that is part of the whole, not a separated being.

Do you agree with that? Or what do you think about that "logic"?

Can you explain it in a different way? I can't understand what you mean by "something" and "everything"

[abrakamowse]

@Javfly33 Something I mean the source/absolute/God/reality/THAT ... and everything I mean the world with the universe, people in it, animals, nature... the whole combo. hehehe...

Not sure if that explains it.

I am not trying to have a complete explanation of creation or truth, just some finger pointing... it's not possible to explain it in words because we are limited and can't conceptualize it because is not a concept. But this is the way I try to understand it. I know is flawed, but basically anything that tries to explain the absolute will have flaws because we have to talk about it and use concepts and ideas. Not the real truth, let's say...

I would say that we have to be open to ideas, but not attached to those ideas... because any idea will not be IT.

Edited February 3, 2021 by abrakamowse

[Javfly33]

@abrakamowse I agree, I'm open to ideas.

So I'm basically open to the idea "others exist" and also to the idea "others do not exist".

I am only saying, it seems most people talk from beliefs and ideas.

Isn't spirituality to be about what's true?

If one have never experienced other avatar than themselves, then the most normal thing to do is to accept that that is the truth.

The truth is not "my avatar + other avatar". The truth is "my avatar + belief of other avatar".

That's why I have said, if anyone here have actually switched from one person to other and can remember it, then I will shut up. Then the existence of others are actual. Then is not just a belief.

17 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

@Javfly33 

 

[abrakamowse]

9 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

So I'm basically open to the idea "others exist" and also to the idea "others do not exist".

I think that's the key. Both are true.

The problem is when people want to say "this is this way and I am right" hehehe...

9 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

That's why I have said, if anyone here have actually switched from one person to other and can remember it, then I will shut up. Then the existence of others are actual. Then is not just a belief.

Even in that case it will be a belief from your POV, right? The other person will say to you, yes I have actually switched from one person to another.

But from your POV it won't be real, you will have to believe what he says. So ... basically we won't know nothing anyway, right? hehehe...

We can't be sure about anything. We just speculate.

the only way it will be if you have the direct experience, then you will say it's true... but the others will have to believe you, unless they have the direct experience to... and so on...

Edited February 3, 2021 by abrakamowse

[Javfly33]

@abrakamowse exactly. That's the most interesting thing. That since I am the truth, unless I literally realize what is true, no amount of reading, teaching or advice will do, since I would just be projecting my own authority...scary.

 

[abrakamowse]

@Javfly33 Exactly!