The External World Does Exist: Reality is more than Consciousness

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Yali said:

@Leo Gura

his book is on your book-list

Nuance

Try using it.

[Blackhawk]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't know if there is infinite awakening literally. But there are many degrees of them for sure.

For example, many so called awakened people are not actually conscious of what God is. Because that requires deeper awakening.

Exactly!

Yup, where else could they come from but your imagination? You are God imagining a world. It's very similar to how video game rendering works, except the computer doing the rendering is also just imaginary!

That is the ultimate illusion.

That is a fantasy of yours.

What I am saying is that you can absolutely verify that only you exist and everyone else is imaginary.

This is not a matter of disproving solpsism. This is a matter of proving it.

You can do that since you are all there is! See how elegant it is? You don't need to crawl into my head to check, you just need to become conscious that "Leo's head" is a fantasy. Which you can do if you are seeious enough.

Yes, it's hard to accept because it's so radical.

Yes, exactly. You see, that is how God fools himself into buying the illusion. God fools you with your compassion and care for others. Your desire to help others and comfort them is a huge part of the illusion you have spun for yourself. This emotional hook keeps you locked in the dream. The dream would not feel real unless it had powerful emotional hooks.

What is a more powerful emotional hook than seeing your daughter get raped?

God is a trickster of the highest order. God uses every emotion against you to fool you.

Just a trick of God.

Of course not.

You don't even have a dog. You just invented your dog right now!

Correct

Take some 5-MeO-DMT

No

There is only ONE perspective. Yours.

It's about energy efficiency. God saves energy my only creating ONE bubble. Why would God waste energy on others when they are not needed? Seriously. Think about it.

Not missing.

They were always just aspects of your absolute perspective.

No

You tell yourself this to stay locked into the illusion.

God sees all. What you see now is all that God sees. God cannot hide anything from itself.

You are talking to yourself, obviously. Nothing else could happen.

Yes, because you resist it. If you accept it, it's so easy.

My pleasure

Look, what I am saying does not preclude you from visiting other worlds, so to speak. You can get on a rocket ship and fly to Mars explore it and it will feel real. And you might even meet some aliens there, fuck one of them, and have a baby together. But all that will just be happening as your experience.

It is a dream, but it is also Absolute Truth -- if you are conscious enough.

Yeah, you break free of being lost in the fantastical mind.

Spira, for example, believes in other minds as real. He's not conscious that he is imagining them.

Shinzen does not understand God or Infinity.

Ramaji is deluded as fuck with his 1000 system and his diety worship.

 

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, your entire mind is just a bag of tricks you use to keep yourself locked in the illusion.

Even your birth. It did not happen. Just a trick of your mind. You have existed here/now forever, imagining shit around you, like births and deaths.

It's true that everything is happening in my consciousness. But I can't see how that's evidence that what you said is true.

There could be others, etc. It's just impossible to know for sure.

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

That's good but won't be enough.

Take some psychedelics.

Nope, God is Love.

Leo saying that psychedelics is required is also just imagination (I'm offering "people" a alternative to psychedelics.)

How is God Love? I can't see it. The only way I can conceive of Love is the creation of duality. Because for me, being in the total solipsism hole is hell, so duality is paradise compared to it. But I see the creation of duality as a necessity, so calling it Love is a bit too nice, imo.

But okay, I guess you could be right.

I'm currently not in a great state of mind.. so my entire post could be bs.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Blackhawk

[Seraphim]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

What I am saying is that you can absolutely verify that only you exist and everyone else is imaginary.

Hmm, I'm trying to understand this perspective. I the human, sees that everything is me, but that me is the absolute self, not me the human. If I don't believe in any stories or concepts, then this human experience is all there is, but if I based on that assume that this human experience is or isn't the only one that exists, then that it just another story/theory.

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Seraphim

[Ry4n]

16 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Are you aware you are playing the same trick that the materialists by imagining there's something outside of awareness?

Notice you are projecting "consciousness" outside of your direct experience.

In this very moment I am imagining that, but I've also experienced mind from the perspective of another ego following an ego death experience (as bizarre as that sounds) and as a result see consciousness as simply a vast, open, infinite empty space that can take on many forms and different experience, all of which are equally illusory in nature. Just because the ego's current state of consciousness can't embody another perspective doesn't mean it isn't there in the same way that one can't fully embody God in this current state of consciousness (psychic phenomena would be one such example of tapping into alternate perspectives). Non-duality is only unwiring the context of the dream yet says absolutely nothing about the contents within it; if you drop an apple it will fall to the ground, the rules all still apply. The illusory nature of another perspective is in no way different to the illusory nature of any other piece of dualistic content that arises in the field of consciousness, so what's the point of singling it out when really the most important illusion to cut through is the ego itself, because without that the ego will most likely run off into a delusional state of thinking its the only thing in reality, never realising its entire existence is a facade. There is no "you" to hallucinate anything is a better way of putting it imo.

[Leo Gura]

19 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

It's true that everything is happening in my consciousness. But I can't see how that's evidence that what you said is true.

Hence you're not God-realized and why we're having this conversation.

If you saw it, it would be so clear that you wouldn't ask me any more questions.

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There could be others, etc.

No there couldn't.

But you are not conscious enough to see this.

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It's just impossible to know for sure.

It possible to know for sure. That's what God-realization is.

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Leo saying that psychedelics is required is also just imagination (I'm offering "people" a alternative to psychedelics.)

How is God Love? I can't see it.

Of course you can't, since you're not God-realized yet.

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But okay, I guess you could be right.

Don't guess. Test everything I say and find what is true.

14 minutes ago, Seraphim said:

Hmm, I'm trying to understand this perspective. I the human, see that everything is me, but that me is the absolute self, not me the human. If I don't believe in any stories or concepts, then this human experience is all there is,

No, you don't get how deep this goes. "Human experience" is already a story.

Without a story "human experience" would be radically recontextualized into Infinity.

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but if I based on that assume that this human experience is or isn't the only one that exists, then that it just another story/theory.

If you assume or believe it, then you are right. It would just be another story.

But I am not asking you to assume or believe. I am suggesting that you become absolute conscious that you are alone.

God-realization is not a theory. Get that. Just like your present experience is not a theory.

[abrakamowse]

35 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

There could be others,

If there's something that is everything... (and you are it, the only thing is you are not conscious of it) how is it possible that there would be "others"???

Everything must include everything by definition. If there's other "everything" then there must be another bigger everything that include those two everything... Lol

And that bigger everything that is only ONE where others are just concepts and ideas, because it includes all in it. That bigger everything will be Reality or God... and your true self.

 

[Godishere]

Someone please answer this. If Leo and everyone here is a figment of my imagination... Who is answering this message? And who is telling me to awaken? It can't be me... It just seems to radical, like my fucking jaw just dropped that even the idea that this is possible. 

[Inliytened1]

Just now, Godishere said:

Someone please answer this. If Leo and everyone here is a figment of my imagination... Who is answering this message? And who is telling me to awaken? It can't be me... It just seems to radical, like my fucking jaw just dropped that even the idea that this is possible. 

You are.

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Godishere said:

It can't be me... It just seems to radical, like my fucking jaw just dropped that even the idea that this is possible. 

Haha!

Sometimes an idea is so radical you know it must be true

[abrakamowse]

15 minutes ago, Godishere said:

Who is answering this message? And who is telling me to awaken? It can't be me... 

 

[Seraphim]

@Leo Gura Thanks, I'll contemplate on it and see what happens. Sometimes I channel and become the truth I am contemplating on, I can already feel there is something there that wants to be discovered.

[Leo Gura]

It if don't make your jaw drop and make you say, "HOLY FUCK NO!", it can't be Truth.

Truth is exactly the last thing you think it could be.

[r0ckyreed]

@Leo Gura I express my gratitude for your responses and will keep doing the work.  My last and final question is what would you say about paranormal phenomenon?  This is kind of what I have been hinting to in this thread in that paranormal phenomenon seems to represent the "something more."  But If my direct experience is all there is and if I have no experience of paranormal phenomenon, then would paranormal phenomenon be a pure fantasy?  I think Paranormal cannot be anything other than the "normal" the I am experiencing now.  Any stories I read from the Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot are stories I imagined about reality right?  But would this mean that I invented all of the stories about paranormal stuff like precognition?  

In a way, my life is paranormal in the sense that it is pure magic, but the idea of time travel, Astral Projection, channeling, precognition, etc. is just imagination to me.  I can test it out any ideas in my imagination to see if they have truth or reality in relation to my Direct Experience.  But if an idea such as paranormal stuff like precognition is something that I can test, doesn't that mean that precognition is an Absolute that exists beyond my own current experience and understanding, or am I inventing precognition as I come to understand it? 

The idea of paranormal seems to suggest to me that there is more to reality than I currently conceive or experience.  I get that the only thing I have of reality is Direct Experience and Imagination, but what do you make of paranormal phenomenon like precognition if my Direct Experience and Imagination tell me that it doesn't exist?  If I cannot verify paranormal phenomenon in my own Direct Experience or if I was to be too closed-minded to verify, does that mean paranormal or precognition does not exist since I am only imagining it?  

Thank You!

Edited February 1, 2021 by r0ckyreed

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, r0ckyreed said:

@Leo Gura I express my gratitude for your responses and will keep doing the work.  My last and final question is what would you say about paranormal phenomenon?  This is kind of what I have been hinting to in this thread in that paranormal phenomenon seems to represent the "something more."  But If my direct experience is all there is and if I have no experience of paranormal phenomenon, then would paranormal phenomenon be a pure fantasy?  I think Paranormal cannot be anything other than the "normal" the I am experiencing now.  Any stories I read from the Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot are stories I imagined about reality right?  But would this mean that I invented all of the stories about paranormal stuff like precognition?  

In a way, my life is paranormal in the sense that it is pure magic, but the idea of time travel, Astral Projection, channeling, precognition, etc. is just imagination to me.  I can test it out any ideas in my imagination to see if they have truth or reality in relation to my Direct Experience.  But if an idea such as paranormal stuff like precognition is something that I can test, doesn't that mean that precognition is an Absolute that exists beyond my own current experience and understanding, or am I inventing precognition as I come to understand it? 

The idea of paranormal seems to suggest to me that there is more to reality than I currently conceive or experience.  I get that the only thing I have of reality is Direct Experience and Imagination, but what do you make of paranormal phenomenon like precognition if my Direct Experience and Imagination tell me that it doesn't exist?  If I cannot verify paranormal phenomenon in my own Direct Experience or if I was to be too closed-minded to verify, does that mean paranormal or precognition does not exist since I am only imagining it? 

You're confusing things. What I said does not in any way preclude the paranormal. If you see a yogi levitating, that's all fine and good. It's still happening within your bubble of experience. Likewise with any other paranormal phenomenon such as astral travel, telepathy, auras, angels, DMT entities, aliens, channeling, spirit realms, hell realms, clairvoyance, UFOs, mothman whatever.

You are right, there is no difference between the normal and the paranormal other than social convention and definition of terms.

Look at it this way: your fridge is imaginary, but that does not prevent you from going in your kitchen, opening the fridge, and exploring its contents. Likewise with the paranormal.

If you meet an alien, angel, or deity -- they will still be you talking to yourself.

You are correct that there is more to what consciousness can do, or what it can imagine, than just the conventional material world. Consciousness can imagine twisted hyperbolic geometry worlds full of aliens and angels and whatever else. But all of that will still always be your own Mind. There is no limit at all to what consciousness can imagine. And it can imagine some insane stuff that you would not believe.

So while I'm saying your current experience is all there is, that does not mean your current experience cannot radically change. It can and it will -- and there is worthwhile stuff to explore. By all means take a rocket ship to Mars, if you dare. You will discover cool and useful stuff. Or if you really want a mindfuck, smoke some salvia.

[Godishere]

@Leo Gura so self admittedly, I have not yet become conscious of this. But if this is true, then what is "other" and what are you? If you are literally me, and I am messaging myself, why are you telling me to wake up? Why are you awoken but I am not, when you are me?

So I'm literally dreaming up someone called Leo who is awake. There is no one called Leo, only in my imagination you exist. And I as God am telling myself to wake up.

And if this is true, and no one exists apart from me, then why do I want "others" to wake up if they are just imagination. Its seems very nihilistic, but I'm just confused.

[Leo Gura]

52 minutes ago, Godishere said:

@Leo Gura so self admittedly, I have not yet become conscious of this. But if this is true, then what is "other" and what are you?

Other = Self

Everything is you.

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If you are literally me, and I am messaging myself, why are you telling me to wake up?

You are telling you to wake up. Before you entered the dream you left yourself clues so you could awaken from the dream.

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Why are you awoken but I am not, when you are me?

You dream that I am awake so that you could awaken yourself.

If you didn't think I was awake, how could you follow my words to awaken yourself? Before you can awaken you first have to create the fiction that others awoke before you.

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So I'm literally dreaming up someone called Leo who is awake. There is no one called Leo, only in my imagination you exist. And I as God am telling myself to wake up.

Yup

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And if this is true, and no one exists apart from me, then why do I want "others" to wake up if they are just imagination. Its seems very nihilistic, but I'm just confused.

You want "others" to awaken as a distraction from waking up yourself, haha

If you really cared about awakening you would stop concerning yourself with the unwokeness of others. Can you see how good a distraction it is to complain about how others are not woke? This is a trap the ego creates for itself because it is to scared to awaken.

One of the biggest mindfucks of awakening is that once you're fully awake you realize there is literally nobody else to help or save. There is no reason to be a teacher or guru. The teacher or guru role is itself a bullshit illusion.

One of the biggest traps in this work is the fantasy that you will become this great teacher and savior of mankind. Well, that turns out to be an illusion the ego imagined in order to feel a sense of purpose and meaning. The reality is that you awaken and then that's it. There's nothing left to do. There is no one to save, nothing to fix.

[Javfly33]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The reality is that you awaken and then that's it. There's nothing left to do. There is no one to save, nothing to fix.

Are you in that state nowdays? Being concious you are talking to yourself all the time and so on?

 

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Are you in that state nowdays? Being concious you are talking to yourself all the time and so on?

Not all the time. The illusion of helping you is still powerful and sticky.

But you have to consider that there's literally nothing better to do. Anything you do is equally pointless, so you might as well help people out and follow your passions. People will act nicer towards you and the world will be a nicer place to live.

Remember, selfishness still causes suffering. So living your life selfishly will not feel so good for you even if you are the only one in the Universe. If you rape someone, you will still go to jail.

[Vibroverse]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Not all the time. The illusion of helping you is still powerful and sticky.

But you have to consider that there's literally nothing better to do. Anything you do is equally pointless, so you might as well help people out and follow your passions. People will act nicer towards you and the world will be a nicer place to live.

[Leo Gura]

There is a further wrinkle here. Since imagination is reality, you could say that by imagining others you make them "real". In a relative sense. You literally create others in the way you create rocks and cars. So.... if you want to play life like others are real, you can. Nothing is really taken away from you. You can dive into and out of the illusion and enjoy it from both angles.

It's like a video game. It doesn't have to be "real" to be fun. Enjoy the game as a game. Don't take it too seriously.