The External World Does Exist: Reality is more than Consciousness

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

But isn't waking up the process of realizing that there is more to reality than the dream we were in?

Absolutely not!

Quote

In the same way, I am in the dream now saying that there is more to reality than this dream I am.  

That is you dreaming.

There is nothing more than THIS.

It's an illusion, but only totally

You are profoundly underestimating the illusion. Even "enlightened" teachers like Spira or Shinzen or Ramaji underestimate it. They are not fully awake. Still trapped in illusions, bullshitting themselves and their imaginary students.

[Mannyb]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Absolutely not!

That is you dreaming.

There is nothing more than THIS.

It's an illusion, but only totally

You are profoundly underestimating the illusion. Even "enlightened" teachers like Spira or Shinzen or Ramaji underestimate it. They are not fully awake. Still trapped in illusions, bullshitting themselves and their imaginary students.

How are these teachers not awake? Their teachings are experience based. Do you think they’re missing on 5meoDMT?

Edited January 31, 2021 by Mannyb

[Vibroverse]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Absolutely not!

That is you dreaming.

There is nothing more than THIS.

It's an illusion, but only totally

You are profoundly underestimating the illusion. Even "enlightened" teachers like Spira or Shinzen or Ramaji underestimate it. They are not fully awake. Still trapped in illusions, bullshitting themselves and their imaginary students.

20 hours ago, Adamq8 said:

There is no external world outside of conciousness.

If you get what I mean.

Conciousness = world 

Ive had a few realization where it is obvious that actually there is not two things here.

It is only YOU, not the ego ofc but you as GOD is alone. 

But that is not really solipsism, it is oneness. 

But it is Hard to say that it is really a world out there if you are not looking, if we had this discussion 5 years ago i would say that ofcourse the universe and world is there and has been there always outside of conciousness,  but now I am certain that conciousness is all that there is, the substratum of universe. 

It especially changed on my LSD trip when my girlfriend acted so different then usual only to realize that she has always been " my" imagination..

And she acted exactly as I predicted and when I moved she moved and then she became me, I could not tell the difference, it was like she was so real up to that point and then her way of acting changed as GOD woke up.to it self and she said she had been waiting for me to wake up, she is not even into spirituality! This is the most radical mindfuck EVER.

After that I do doubt the validity of others, there is only 1 thing here, not two

20 hours ago, Adamq8 said:

There is no external world outside of conciousness.

If you get what I mean.

Conciousness = world 

Ive had a few realization where it is obvious that actually there is not two things here.

It is only YOU, not the ego ofc but you as GOD is alone. 

But that is not really solipsism, it is oneness. 

But it is Hard to say that it is really a world out there if you are not looking, if we had this discussion 5 years ago i would say that ofcourse the universe and world is there and has been there always outside of conciousness,  but now I am certain that conciousness is all that there is, the substratum of universe. 

It especially changed on my LSD trip when my girlfriend acted so different then usual only to realize that she has always been " my" imagination..

And she acted exactly as I predicted and when I moved she moved and then she became me, I could not tell the difference, it was like she was so real up to that point and then her way of acting changed as GOD woke up.to it self and she said she had been waiting for me to wake up, she is not even into spirituality! This is the most radical mindfuck EVER.

After that I do doubt the validity of others, there is only 1 thing here, not two

 

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, Mannyb said:

How are these teachers not awake? Their teachings are experience based. Do you think they’re missing on 5meoDMT?

They are partially awake.

Yes, their teachings are based on their partially awake experience.

Like I keep fucking telling your guys, there are many degrees of wokeness. Do not just assign the highest degree to some dude you see on YouTube. The chances of him being fully woke are very low.

[Vibroverse]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Absolutely not!

That is you dreaming.

There is nothing more than THIS.

It's an illusion, but only totally

You are profoundly underestimating the illusion. Even "enlightened" teachers like Spira or Shinzen or Ramaji underestimate it. They are not fully awake. Still trapped in illusions, bullshitting themselves and their imaginary students.

So after this will be another dream, and after that is another dream, and after that is another dream. Dreaming all the way down. Turtles all the way down ish in a sense. Eternally this. Awareness. 

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Vibroverse said:

So after this will be another dream, and after that is another dream, and after that is another dream.

That is you dreaming.

Future is fantasy.

"After this X will happen" << That is the dream!

Stop imaging stuff beyond what is presently experienced. Stop imagining a past, a future, an Earth, atoms, people, etc. Stop doing it and be fully present.

[Mannyb]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

They are partially awake.

Yes, their teachings are based on their partially awake experience.

Like I keep fucking telling your guys, there are many degrees of wokeness. Do not just assign the highest degree to some dude you see on YouTube. The chances of him being fully woke are very low.

Are you saying that as this is a dream there would be no limits to awakening, infinite degrees?  We could only ever be partially awake, that would be the point of dreaming? Wouldn’t such a progressive path imply time?
On the other hand, we are God & wouldn’t being aware of that fact be full awakening in the ever present now?

Edited January 31, 2021 by Mannyb

[Vibroverse]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That is you dreaming.

Future is fantasy.

"After this X will happen" << That is the dream!

Stop imaging stuff beyond what is presently experienced. Stop imagining a past, a future, an Earth, atoms, people, etc. Stop doing it and be fully present.

So I am constantly imagining a past and a future in the eternal now, and they exist because I am imagining them, having that fantasy. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Vibroverse

[Mannyb]

6 minutes ago, Vibroverse said:

So I am constantly imagining a past and a future in the eternal now, and they exist because I am imagining them, having that fantasy. 

Yes, time is created by mind. Namaste ?? 

[Vibroverse]

8 minutes ago, Mannyb said:

Yes, time is created by mind. Namaste ?? 

 Now also is created by mind. 

[Mannyb]

Just now, Vibroverse said:

 Now also is created by mind. 

If by ‘now’ you mean a moment in time, then yes. Yet the real ‘Now’ in our shared being’s experience is more than that, it is eternity itself.

 

[Vibroverse]

Just now, Mannyb said:

If by ‘now’ you mean a moment in time, then yes. Yet the real ‘Now’ in our shared being’s experience is more than that, it is eternity itself.

 

Yes. 

[Danioover9000]

   What is a conundrum?

[Vibroverse]

So I am literally imagining people into being. I've created every human. 

[r0ckyreed]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Absolutely not!

That is you dreaming.

There is nothing more than THIS.

It's an illusion, but only totally

You are profoundly underestimating the illusion. Even "enlightened" teachers like Spira or Shinzen or Ramaji underestimate it. They are not fully awake. Still trapped in illusions, bullshitting themselves and their imaginary students.

@Leo Gura Thanks for your time. It is just hard for me to grasp how there is nothing more than this. I am I get how I am imagining you, Las Vegas, and my refrigerator (at the moment), but yet, I still believe that you exist and are having your own experiences as an ego in Las Vegas. I get how I can never truly verify an external world and other minds epistemically or metaphysically, but even if I could, that would break the whole illusion of self vs. other. Because if I could experience all experiences consciously and simultaneously, then the ego would be dead.

The thing I have trouble with is that it is really to discount other people as having experiences. So if I were to counsel a person who is telling me about their traumas and needs help, I get that the traumas they experienced are being held in their imagination within my imagination in our session, but it seems invalidating to say that they never had that experience and they don’t even exist. It’s difficult to explain, and I appreciate you all’s explanations.

Another reason is that my dog (black lab) is so intelligent. My dog can sense my parents’ cars by the sound they make crossing our bridge! It’s absolutely insane! My dog is like many other humans in that they believe in an external world. For instance when I am playing basketball and my dog is in the house (or is my dog in the house? Does my dog even exist when I am not seeing it? I do not know, but I do think there is more to life happening within other experiences contained within the video game or collective dream or whatever you wanna call this.), my dog goes crazy. I can hear him whimpering and scratching the door. In another instance, my friend is playing basketball outside while my dog and I are inside and the dog “knows” that it is my friend. It just blows my mind. It is difficult to see the evidence that my experience is It because it seems like we are all experiencing fractals of this universe. Whether or not an actual plane of reality exists outside my own is still unknown to me. Couldn’t it be that Consciousness divided itself into all of the private worlds in the world and that it is not the world we are experiencing, but instead the dream we are creating together as the Godhead that experiencing all perspectives of itself? I apologize if I am not making sense. It just seems like when we state that only our perspective is Absolute Truth, it seems to be missing all of the worlds of the 7 billion people and the billions of animals, and the aliens from other planets, etc. etc. (I know I am imagining aliens on another planet in the same way I am imagining Santa clause and the earth and my parents, dog, and the experiences of 7 billion people, but couldn’t it be the case that even though Consciousness is Oneness, that within Oneness contains all other perceptual bubbles for which I as an ego will never have access to? Which includes the idea that there may be more to reality than my experience; hence, if there wasn’t, then who or what am I writing to? You may answer that I am talking to myself, which I assume means myself as in the God Universe rather than the ego experience, but the myself for whom I am writing to is an experience beyond this egoic experience I am having now. Right?)
 

Gosh it’s hard. I appreciate your all’s time. I think I am having an ego backlash from learning about psychology and therapy. The problem with our society is that it suits a certain paradigm for me as well as others to engage in the professions they wish to engage in (ex. Helping others, which you could say is the same as helping myself as the God Universe rather than ego experience).
 

When I say I think there is something beyond myself, I am saying there is more to life than this egoic consciousness or experience. There are many worlds that I believe exist even though I am trapped with my own egoic experience (the egoic experience is everything I am experiencing that separates me from the rest of the world). An example is that there seem to be many worlds which I don’t have access to within this dream such as:

-blind/deaf worlds

- PTSD, psychosis, and other mental disorder worlds

- colorblind worlds

- the world of an owl, cat, or toad, etc.

? Thank you!

Edited January 31, 2021 by r0ckyreed

[Mannyb]

@r0ckyreed All these ‘worlds’ are no more than apparently separate objects appearing from your ego’s perspective.

Look closely, what you only ever experience is being aware, and within your awareness you experience 3 states, empty deep dreamless sleep devoid of thinking, sensing & perceiving (pure rest in and as your being), dreaming which involves the mind and thus a sense of time, and the waking state in which you experience mind (time) and sense perceptions with a body (space), they are the 4 dimensions of experience. You’re hence living in 4D, 1D and 0D depending on the state you’re appearing as.

Wake up, realize you’re not trapped, you’re here of your own volition, you’re actually loving it.

There are no worlds, not even one, there’s only awareness, there is only us, you, I, there is only God loving itself.

This is it!

Let it sink in, keep studying, there’ll be a point in which you’ll realize you’ve always been awake, your acts’ll come from love, not to get love.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Mannyb

[abrakamowse]

7 hours ago, Ry4n said:

That "more" you speak of is just consciousness itself. The nothingness from which everything arises (that is simultaneously everything paradoxically).

 

We (or at least I) am not saying there isn't. By saying consciousness is all there is is very different than saying the ego and it's tiny individual experience is all there is. This ego is merely another appearance within the field of consciousness. 

That’s the difference between non duality and solipsism.

I think that’s why some people get confused and think solipsism is the same as saying consciousness is all there is.

They are very different things.

[Vibroverse]

Depression and all mental issues are fake. Just a result of misalignment. Just ego in short. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Vibroverse

[Blackhawk]

Can everyone just stop thinking that they know. No one knows.

[Vibroverse]

2 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

Can everyone just stop thinking that they know. No one knows.

How do you know that?