When skepticism begins beinig a problem

[Moksha]

12 hours ago, sleep said:

But why should I trust my intuition? What makes it more trust-worthy than reason?

Has your intuition ever, even once, led you wrong? By contrast, have your thoughts ever, even once, provided peace?

[WelcometoReality]

16 hours ago, sleep said:

I'm not sure how to answer that question. I guess first I'd want to know "wrong" relative to what? I think I could say I'm wrong, relative to most of humanity's experience. But I'm not wrong in regards to my own experience. 

I like that. Wrong as a relative notion rather than an absolute one. Could one also argue that neither one of the experience of the car being red and being green is wrong?

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Has your intuition ever, even once, led you wrong? By contrast, have your thoughts ever, even once, provided peace?

Of course! My intuition has told me that beautiful girls are better, that people in high positions are superior, that those who have outperformed me in athletic competitions are inherently superior ... because I am a screaming chimpanzee in the zoo cage.

[Forestluv]

@sleep It seems like you are looking for an external, objective thing that is universally true. Yet to be true from one perspective means it must be untrue from another perspective. There is no yin without yang. Every thing needs a not-that-thing for contrast. 

One perspective is the truth of "IS". This comes prior to the mind trying to define what "IS" is. 

Yet contextual truths can come in handy for navigating through life. 

[Gesundheit]

13 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Trusting your intuition feels so good.

Let alone not really having any other choice, cuz logic, in essence, is purely intuitive.

[Moksha]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

Of course! My intuition has told me that beautiful girls are better, that people in high positions are superior, that those who have outperformed me in athletic competitions are inherently superior ... because I am a screaming chimpanzee in the zoo cage.

That screaming chimpanzee is your conditioned mind, trapped inside its conceptual cage. Intuition arises from Consciousness, as direct insight. Notice that your examples are all forms of judgment: beautiful girls/high positions/athletic champions are superior. Judgments of superiority/inferiority are a sure sign that the ego is at the helm. When you abide in your true nature as Consciousness, there is no judgment, only love, because you see the sameness of Yourself in everything.

[sleep]

5 hours ago, Moksha said:

Has your intuition ever, even once, led you wrong? By contrast, have your thoughts ever, even once, provided peace?

Yes, my intuition has lied to me many times (at least my current definition of intuition) and my thoughts have provided peace. I don't think my position is uncommon, in fact I've seen it a lot around philosophers and other intellectuals. 

[sleep]

5 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

I like that. Wrong as a relative notion rather than an absolute one. Could one also argue that neither one of the experience of the car being red and being green is wrong?

Yeah, I think you can probably argue against or in favor of pretty much any position you can think of, honestly. Assuming there exists an external reality outside perception (noumenon) then human perception is wrong in at least some ways in relation to that. We are not able to sense an object the same way a bat or a dolphin can. 

[Moksha]

13 minutes ago, sleep said:

Yes, my intuition has lied to me many times (at least my current definition of intuition) and my thoughts have provided peace. I don't think my position is uncommon, in fact I've seen it a lot around philosophers and other intellectuals. 

My intuition tells me that it defines itself differently than your intuition

[sleep]

1 minute ago, Moksha said:

My intuition tells me that it defines itself differently than your intuition

Who gets to define what intuition is? Do you think the way you use that word is in line with the way most people do? Words are just made up and change depending on popular use, after all.

[Moksha]

2 minutes ago, sleep said:

Who gets to define what intuition is? Do you think the way you use that word is in line with the way most people do? Words are just made up and change depending on popular use, after all.

In the realm of relative reality, you define everything.

Given that (major) caveat:

I define intuition as pure intelligence, which arises from Consciousness. It doesn't insinuate, let alone require, guruism. Children can intuit, probably more readily than adults, because their mind is less conditioned.

A few minutes ago, unrelated to this conversation, I was learning about Vipassana, which is insight meditation. I have never practiced it, but it resonates with my understanding of intuition. It is not conceptual, and it is not even emotional. It is spiritual.

[sleep]

6 minutes ago, Moksha said:

In the realm of relative reality, you define everything.

Given that (major) caveat:

I define intuition as pure intelligence, which arises from Consciousness. It doesn't insinuate, let alone require, guruism. Children can intuit, probably more readily than adults, because their mind is less conditioned.

A few minutes ago, unrelated to this conversation, I was learning about Vipassana, which is insight meditation. I have never practiced it, but it resonates with my understanding of intuition. It is not conceptual, and it is not even emotional. It is spiritual.

Why do you trust your intuition, in the first place? Do you trust your intuition because your intuition tells you to?

[Moksha]

2 minutes ago, sleep said:

Why do you trust your intuition, in the first place? Do you trust your intuition because your intuition tells you to?

It relates to the question I asked you earlier. I trust my intuition, because it doesn't let me down. I don't demand an immediate answer. I just ask the question, and trust that the answer will come. Often it is surprising, sometimes it is even frightening, but I am thankful for it, and I respond to it. There is an infinitely vast intelligence, which is the Source of who we ultimately are, that we can access, even in the world of relative reality. Ironically, the more we let go, the easier the answers flow.

[WelcometoReality]

49 minutes ago, sleep said:

Yeah, I think you can probably argue against or in favor of pretty much any position you can think of, honestly. Assuming there exists an external reality outside perception (noumenon) then human perception is wrong in at least some ways in relation to that. We are not able to sense an object the same way a bat or a dolphin can. 

Yes the human eye can't see all tye light spectrum. And the ear can't hear all frequencies so the human can't perceive all of reality if we assume that such a thing exist. To me discrepancy is a better terminology to use. The word "wrong" seems so black and white and it implies that we shouldn't experience the car being red.

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, sleep said:

Why do you trust your intuition, in the first place? Do you trust your intuition because your intuition tells you to?

What if I told you that you trust your logic because it feels good.

[sleep]

2 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

What if I told you that you trust your logic because it feels good.

I'd probably agree

[Carl-Richard]

10 minutes ago, sleep said:

I'd probably agree

That is essentially what intuition is about: being able to gauge how you feel to such an extent that your approach to life becomes effortless, without being crippled by indecision, fear and doubt. If you truly get in touch with your feelings, then you can truly know what you want out of life.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[WelcometoReality]

12 hours ago, sleep said:

Who gets to define what intuition is? Do you think the way you use that word is in line with the way most people do? Words are just made up and change depending on popular use, after all.

If words are made up and reason is made with words does that mean that reason is made up? How do you determine whether your reasoning is sound?

 

[BipolarGrowth]

On 1/29/2021 at 2:01 PM, Moksha said:

Experience based on relative reality, even if it is your own experience, cannot be validated. How could it be, when it changes based on who is doing the perceiving? Maybe this what your intuition is recognizing.

The only reliable experience is direct experience with ultimate reality. When your eyes open, and you directly realize who You are, there is no doubt. How could there be, when there are no thoughts? There is only pure Awareness.

The feeling of no doubt being present in an experience is not a good measurement for reliability or Truth. Many times people have felt something to be true beyond doubt which actually ended up being false. Just look at everyone who thought the Earth was flat because they thought that’s what their direct experience was showing them. 
 

When experiencing this “ultimate reality” you do so through your own relative experience. Many people would be happy to argue with you about how their “ultimate reality” differs from your “ultimate reality.” 

[undeather]

On 29.1.2021 at 5:57 AM, sleep said:

Whenever I watch leo's content, or consume any kind of spiritual/philosophical material, I always get the impression that the people making the material don't really know what they are talking about. Especially leo, I always get the impression he is full of shit in his videos. I don't only doubt other people, though, I also doubt myself. Even if I get the impression of finding some kind of deep truth within myself, the doubt of why I should trust my subjective experience always ends up kind of nullifying it. I get this with statements about the external world (science) but not as much, because at least I somewhat trust its evidence-based approach.

I'm stuck in this limbo where every time I see someone else make any statement I get the feeling they are full of shit but also can't trust my own subjective assesments about my experience because I don't see why I should, and I don't know how to move forward.

People in this community love to signal how introspective and concious they are.
But if you actually take a deep dive at epistemiology and bias, you will realize that the average sensemaking capability of the "seeker" is ridicolously low. (which is substantianted by some of the answers you got in this thread).Thats why I left this place years ago and it was one of the smarter decisions in my life. Dont get me wrong, I am not hating here - I believe wholeheartedly that the source of this communitas is one of benevolence and altruism. On the also side its also true that the road to hell is parved with good intentions. 

I respect Leo a lot, because he obviously has done the hard work - but I disagree with him on a whole lot of things. Does this mean he is wrong? Of course not - Maybe I am just an unenlightened chip unable to realize the profound truths channeled through this man. But lets just say that I have done my homework too and here I am shitting on some of his, in my opionion obviously biased, claims.

The reason why I think I can help you with this is because I see myself in the way you phrased your dilemma. I have been there....
What you my friend need to do in my humble opinion is the following:

1) Learn about epistemiology - how do we know something to be "real" or "true"?
Here is a great introduction video: 

2) Learn about "uncertainty" and how to deal with it
Dont presume to map the infinite.
If you every checked the accounts of the deepest mystic you will recognize really fast that NONE OF THEM MATCH UP! The reason for that is beacuse every attept is mediated by humans and the prisonhouse of language. Let the mysery stay the mystery. Share your perspective but realize that its just a perspective, not more, not less. When you think you have the answer, you stop seeking - Instead, plant a garden where mystery and strange plants bloom. You can no more become fully enlightened than you can become fully educated. Take the insights for what/all that they are and KEEP going! 
 

3) Before going deeper into spirituality, fix the fundament (ignore if already in order)
I just repeat this one because I have seen it again and again and again....
Did you know that some Ashrams in India require you to have "made it in the material word" in order to get accepted as a novice? I have a friend who spent 10 years in such a facility and most of his teachers were highly educated PHD's, physicists, physicians or at least very successful in some other domain. Why is that? Getting far on the spiritual path is way fucking harder than anything you run away from in the marterial world. It requires a huge amount of discipline and courage, plus a high amount of resistence in the face of graet delusions. Honestly, if you are at a low point in your life, then this is not the the right time to start a spiritual path. Its not. Everyone who says so and doesn't tell you about the dangers/difficulties that come with going on this journey is lying to you or has no real knowledge about it. Its basically sending a soldier who suffers from PTSD back into the war zone. Dont listen to anyone that who tells you otherwise. Most often you don't really know what your psyche can bare and what will trigger a heavy psychosis. If you are in a deep depression right now or have any other psychological/physiological difficulties, give yourself at least 5 years to fix them. It doesnt mean that you cant use tools out of the high conciousness toolbox. Psychodelics, after all, are propably the best thing to battle depression with, right now (in the right setting of course). Just be careful and take care of your needs. Take Maslows hierachy of needs as orientation. Maybe your lack of sexual intercourse is going to bite you in the ass later, you never know. Build on a strong fundament and you will be far more likely to succeed. This is so freaking important, yet talked about so rarely. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by undeather