KETOGENIC DIET - independent meta analysis by Nick Hiebert

[Michael569]

<NOTE: THIS MAY BE MORE SUITED FOR GEEKS>

 

Nutrivore (Nick Hiebert) is an independent amateur researcher and Nutritional Sciences student (Phd I believe) who creates an independent meta-analysis (meta-analysis is the second-highest levels in the hierarchy of evidence)  of studies comparing high fat and non-keto diets. To this day there is no other study of such a scale on the National Institute of Medicine (pubmed)

https://thenutrivore.blogspot.com/2020/10/low-carbohydrate-diets-and-health.html#INS

Bear in mind that this is independent analysis so not pre-reviewed (not verified by the bigger scientific community) and I did not go in and dig on the individual studies to see what they did or didn't account for that would take a lifetime of work hence multiple levels of possible biases. 

Still, this is a brilliant piece of work and Nick deserves the credit so go to his blog and support him to get insane level of nutritional knowledge and research interpretation. 

Some of the outcomes of the independent meta-analysis: 

• increased liver enzymes on keto (may indicate liver damage) - the more weight people lose on keto the worse it gets
• increased levels of thyroid hormones on keto - not significant but could indicate increased stress levels on the body and more oxidative damage 
• increased levels of epinephrine and cortisol (stress hormones) for those who lost the most weight on keto (muscle loss? starvation? nutrient deprivation?)
• reduced testosterone by 33% after 5 weeks compared to controls (non-keto)
• 30% increased CRP (inflammatory marker) in keto group over 6 months and in group that lost more than 10 kilos on keto 
• 55% increase Tumor-Necrosis Factor (aggressive inflammatory marker commonly seen in autoimmunity and atherosclerosis) on keto and by 114% after 3 months
• Increased Intercellular Adhesion Molecule 1 (inflammatory marker signalling arterial immune conflict -e.g. damage to endothelium e.g. initial stage of atherosclerosis) - increased the most for those who lost the most weight on keto
• Increased Vascular Adhesion Molecules on keto (means an increased level of intraarterial inflammation) -< this was not as significant as the previous one thou
• Increased Monocyte Chemoattractant Protein-1 on keto (inflammatory marker in the arteries, also indicating an immune conflict and increased levels of inflammation, commonly seen in arthritis and atherosclerosis). The more weight ppl lost on keto the higher this gets 
• Increased Interleukin 1, 8 and 10 on keto (a systemic inflammatory markers)
• Increased Creatinine on keto - higher load on kidney filtration
• Higher Triglycerides (fat flowing in arteries) by nearly double on keto vs non-keto 
• Increased apoliprotein B on keto - indicates higher need of LDL (bad cholesterol) to be cleared out, may (or may not) indicate increased risk of atherosclerosis in progress 
• Increased amount of LDL particles on keto - I'm not 100% sure how to inrpret this but generally you want to have fewer particles that are larger in size. (I may be wrong) 
• Increased apoliproein A - sticky particle commonly involved in clotting and arterial plaque development. 

Anyways, interesting findings. Bear in mind that my interpretation may be wrong and I'd love to see interpretation of someone who understands research better. To me this brings a bit more awareness on the hidden dangers of keto diet. Not saying it can't be done good, what I am saying that if you do you better know what you are doing. 

Peace

 

[Michael569]

1 minute ago, K Ghoul said:

I know you meant to say peer-reviewed and this is just a typo.

OOPS 

[Daniel2752]

I believe if you do a clean keto diet as opposed to dirty keto, you will be fine. A lot of people do dirty keto which will of course be terrible for your health. Clean keto is things like salmon, avocados, nutritional yeast, grass fed meats, grass fed cheese and butter (high omega 3 fats when grass fed), cruciferous vegetables, free range eggs, nuts and seeds (limiting peanut butter since it's high in omega 6), and fat stable oils like avocado, coconut, and olive oil since they don't oxidize under high heat.

Dirty keto would be things like regular hot dogs, non- grass fed meats, imitation cheese and butter, vegetable oils (highly inflammatory and oxidized) and lack of vegetables.. 

So I'm sure these studies are  including a lot of people who are doing dirty keto..

Edited January 28, 2021 by Daniel2752

[andyjohnsonman]

If keto is bad too then its getting to the point where you wonder what is actually good?

[UDT]

Man thank you for the great stuff! 

I got tons of shvt thrown for mentioning the thyroid, cortisol and testosterone issues from keto. People get dogmatic quiiick.

Also there is the state of catecholamine high when you start keto so you tend to feel great: 

 

[Michael569]

@Daniel2752 @andyjohnsonman the question is , what is clean keto? Is it eating fried steak 4 times a week and smearing it in butter because Eric Berg says it's good?

[Michael569]

@datamonster well spotted, i wasn't looking at p-values gotta admit yeah you want to get below 0.05 otherwise the odds of result being down to coincidence are higher. For me personally the increased inflammatory markers are a big deal. Atherosclerosis takes 40 years to build up. You may be looking fab on the outside while a disaster is building up inside ?‍♂️

[Daniel2752]

Well if the steak is grass-fed which will be high on omega-3's and it's being fried in a high quality non-oxidized fat such as coconut oil, ghee, or avocado oil, then it should be considered as something clean. What makes keto clean in my opinion is healthy ingredients. High quality oils, high quality meats/eggs/cheese, nuts and seeds (walnuts, pecans, macadamia, brazil nuts, chia seeds, pumpkin seeds), and lots of cruciferous vegetables to get the fiber to avoid a fatty liver and to get you micronutrients/phytonutrients. Also what makes keto healthy is the fact that ketones are anti-inflammatory themselves, and a carb molecule needs to attach to 4 water molecules to get stored in the body and that is an inflammatory reaction, which is why you lose so much water weight in the first week of starting keto.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Daniel2752

[Michael569]

@Daniel2752 grass fed won't make it omega 3 rich unless there are things like flax added to the feed which is not common also you have to consider heating oxidises omegas and renders them useless lipid peroxides. I'm not a fan of keto for many reasons and i guess I'll leave my response at that ? 

[Daniel2752]

2 hours ago, Michael569 said:

@Daniel2752 grass fed won't make it omega 3 rich unless there are things like flax added to the feed which is not common also you have to consider heating oxidises omegas and renders them useless lipid peroxides. I'm not a fan of keto for many reasons and i guess I'll leave my response at that ? 

Well the omega 6:3 ratio is 2:1 for grass fed beef compared to the ratio of 9:1 for grain fed beef and you can preserve the omega 3's if you don't overcook your beef. Even after heating up sardines in a can to preserve it, it's still contains most of it's omega 3's... Keto just has to be done right to be healthy like any diet. Most studies showing the harm of keto are most likely including people doing dirty keto. But I'll keep looking at the counter evidence with an open mind, not trying to be dogmatic about keto at all.

[andyjohnsonman]

19 hours ago, Michael569 said:

because Eric Berg says it's good

What do you think to Dr Berg? Does he give good advice? I have been following his youtube channel

[Michael569]

2 hours ago, andyjohnsonman said:

What do you think to Dr Berg? Does he give good advice? I have been following his youtube channel

He is offering some good quality content that's for sure. I like his videos on metabolism, hormones and energy. But he is EXTREMELY BIASED for keto and his supplements. He is a great marketer and a great salesman and he cherry-picks research (everybody does to a degree but with a following such as his, that can be dangerous). 

I can't put my finger on what is it he stands for. What is his message and his audience cause he resembles Josh Axe who will give you a bit of everything but these guys will not pull you out of depression or arthritis because they are generalists and want to appeal to everybody. 

[andyjohnsonman]

Yea warning bells started sound for me when in one of his videos he was promoting  hydroxychloroquine which Trump used for Covid. 

[Preety_India]

@andyjohnsonman @Michael569

High levels of cortisol? Arghh. 

Good I'm a non keto. No thanks to keto, don't want. 

[Michael569]

@Preety_India this was based on limited sample (not too many studies look at that) so potential for bias or incorrect outcome. I do personally believe ketosis raises stress hormones when done over long term but am missing evidence (so far) to back this up

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

@Preety_India this was based on limited sample (not too many studies look at that) so potential for bias or incorrect outcome. I do personally believe ketosis raises stress hormones when done over long term but am missing evidence (so far) to back this up

That's why I never liked it so much. I think it pumps up the adrenals. 

[Michael569]

@Preety_India that's what i believe as well is happening and is the real reason why keto feels "amazing"... stress hormones. Tim shared his own YouTube video above, he summarised it nicely

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

@Preety_India that's what i believe as well is happening and is the real reason why keto feels "amazing"... stress hormones. Tim shared his own YouTube video above, he summarised it nicely

Who Tim? 

[eggopm3]

My mom is obsessed with Dr Berg and has converted my Dad, my sister, two of my aunts, one of my uncles, and two of my cousins to keto over the course of the last year and a half. They've seen success with weight loss because of it which has validated her view and now she never shuts up about how every health problem is caused by not eating keto.

The basic principles of removing carbs and sugar from your diet seem reasonable enough but in practice it seems like most meals consist of some combination of eggs, meat, cheese, cream, nuts and a handful of specific vegetables (cauliflower mainly). Surely a more diverse diet would be better in the long run?

[Michael569]

13 hours ago, Preety_India said:

Who Tim? 

@UDT is Tim. Go check out his youtube channel, he posted a great video if you scroll a bit above.