Direct Experience & Illusions

[Tim R]

How does one make sure, that an insight gained by use of direct experience was actually an insight into the truth and not another illusion? 

If I look at the moon and see a disk, my direct experience tells me that it is a disk. Welp, it's not a disk but a sphere. If I look at the concentric waves that a pebble makes when I throw it into a pond, my direct experience fools me into thinking the water is flowing away. It's going up and down.

How can we rely on direct experience, when it is the very reason we got into the illusion in the first place? 

[LastThursday]

Truth is that which persists. Is there anything in direct experience which persists? How about direct experience itself?

[Adamq8]

Question ur scepticism to.

True awakening is just that, an awakening from a " dream" there is no doubt cause there is no one there to doubt anything,  doubt arises when "you" return. 

According to ur logic anything  might be an illusion and false which is a bit absurd imho. 

Investigate the assumption you have, and why question ur own awakening and authority? You are GOD so it is only you who can answer the validity of insights. 

Form and formlessness is one and the same.

Just be and experience man and stop thinking about this thats my advice even tho it is a useless advice for the sceptic mind. 

How can you be sure that direct experience is illusion? It is a tricky game and I would say go with feeling and intuition.

You are the whole shebang so take back your authority and create ur reality,  cause that is what you are doing no matter what.

 

[TheSelf]

15 minutes ago, Tim R said:

How does one make sure, that an insight gained by use of direct experience was actually an insight into the truth and not another illusion? 

See, you yourself are truth, reality, changless, anything else is illusion, imaginary temporary, therefore are not real, that's it.

Edited January 28, 2021 by m0hsen

[Adamq8]

We can conclude that reality is both illusion and totally real and neither,  you see? You can twist and turn anything however you want, BEING just is and that is what you are.

But being is everything to.

So relative truth is true as well.

It goes full circle.

Non dual.

Truth is being/aware and anything arises inside IT.

So everything arising is also true cause there is no seperation,  this post is just mental masturbation cause reality can be anything you imagine it to be, then it is true for YOU.

YOU ARE ALL OF IT AND NOTHING OF IT 

death = life

Real = illusion

Being = not being 

Everything = nothing

One thing to conclude is just this, being IS 

Ultimate truth is = being is changeless and everything arising is changing,  you are the changeless experiencing change cause thats all that there is to THIS

[Gesundheit]

Basically, you're asking if you can "know" anything with absolute certainty.

So, there is the direct experience of the moon, for example, and then there's your interpretations of it (disk, sphere, beautiful, far, big, etc...). You want to confirm your interpretations of what you're directly experiencing, through some tangible means. Right? But the problem is that the moon that you directly experience is just an appearance of what it actually is. And your interpretations are just appearances as well. However, interpretations make it tricky because they distract you from the fact that everything is just appearances, and they make it look like their content can actually be absolutely true. But see, interpretations are just interpretations. And they can always be wrong. Therefore, it's not possible to know anything with absolute certainty, except for the previous statement 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Gesundheit

[Barbara]

I really relate with this thought. Honestly have no answer worth sharing... Just thinking out loud: 

Doubting the insight we gained would not be the same as doubting the direct experience it’s self. With that said, I would say that the truth of an insight can only be “measured” by one’s intuition and not logically. So you can simply trust the insight, when you know it comes from a honest and authentic place. And if you’re doubting the place were this insight came from, that would maybe be a sign that the insight is not to be trusted. 

I guess that a nice rule of thumb would also be: “Is this a thought or is this intuition?” 

For exemple your question, that is also mine, “Can an in insight from direct experience be trusted?” Is a thought. So shouldn’t be trusted for itself.

But if you deeply feel like questioning an insight per si, that could be intuition telling you maybe abandon to it.

Anyway, don’t take me too seriously tho. I’ll be working on this still

[Joker_Theory]

This might help as this was very profound when i heard it. Something Bashar said.

He said something along these lines: Dual thinking is creating separation cause your thinking you are or God/everything there is or your not but that is dual thinking like this or that but your both All that is/ever was and will be and not and nothing even. You see it's not THIS OR THAT BUT THIS/AND THAT. TADA!!!!!

[WelcometoReality]

3 hours ago, Tim R said:

How does one make sure, that an insight gained by use of direct experience was actually an insight into the truth and not another illusion? 

If I look at the moon and see a disk, my direct experience tells me that it is a disk. Welp, it's not a disk but a sphere.

What, in your direct experience, is making the claims that it is a disc or a sphere? And what is the moon without those claims?

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Adamq8 said:

True awakening is just that, an awakening from a " dream" there is no doubt cause there is no one there to doubt anything,  doubt arises when "you" return. 

Yes, but when you return you also have direct experience of you like individual. Some nights ago i had like an experience and i wrote this after:

. I woke up at 3 o'clock in the night with discomfort and could not sleep, I began to notice a sensation like expansion, dissolution. Suddenly I was not there, I had never been. the certainty that everything is the same, heaven, envy or a pen, reality becomes homogeneous, an equal soup, and in its homogeneity it reveals itself as absolutely nothing. I do not exist, I have never existed ... how is it possible? there is a vision, a kind of green fractal ,it's everything... something in me wants to get out of that, I sit up, but every time I relax again, the dissolution returns. there is nothing, there never was. everything is a fantasy. I can't keep this up, it's too disturbing. I took the phone, check WhatsApp. Suddenly normality returns, but today I walk down the street and there is no center, there is the certainty that everything is an illusion. transparent 

Is this direct experience? Or the coffee that I'm drinking right now in a coffee shop? I read some of your posts explaining this nothing in similar terms

 

 

[Consilience]

5 hours ago, Tim R said:

How does one make sure, that an insight gained by use of direct experience was actually an insight into the truth and not another illusion? 

If I look at the moon and see a disk, my direct experience tells me that it is a disk. Welp, it's not a disk but a sphere. If I look at the concentric waves that a pebble makes when I throw it into a pond, my direct experience fools me into thinking the water is flowing away. It's going up and down.

How can we rely on direct experience, when it is the very reason we got into the illusion in the first place? 

All relative experience is illusory in some way shape or form. All perceptive experience, including all forms of intellect, cognition, emotion, and intuition, are perceptive experience on some level. When you see a disk, from a certain POV you're actually correct, in that moment it's a disk. Yet from another POV, yes you are right, it's just an illusion. But the context which you're giving the designation "illusion" or "real" is also itself a form of cognition, and therefore illusory on some level. It's strange loops and fractals all the way down until you hit the bedrock of reality - The Absolute.   

[Forestluv]

5 hours ago, Tim R said:

How does one make sure, that an insight gained by use of direct experience was actually an insight into the truth and not another illusion? 

Once the mind starts contextualizing as “either insight or illusion”, I no longer consider it direct experience. Direct experience is prior to contextualizations (although the contextualization itself is direct experience, yet not that which is being contextualized).  Yet, making discernments about insight and illusion has practical value.

However, the term “direct experience” can be given all sorts of meanings. 

[Someone here]

Illusions are illusions.. So they don't exist. Truth Is inescapable. It doesn't get any "truer" than this. Obviously? 

"illusion" and "doubt" arise only on the conceptual level.   If you don't think and just experience without conceptualizing your experience.. There is no room for "illusion" or "doubt". Because these are just thoughts. Which ironically are directly experienced as well.