Awakening with psychedelics Vs Sober awakening

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, ZubPrem said:

No I meant does it make any difference whether you awaken on psychedelics or sober

Since there are hundreds of different kinds, yes it makes a difference which kinds you have.

[TheSelf]

2 hours ago, ZubPrem said:

@Girzo Even if they're short at first, I think you may always be able to go back to the awakened state or stay in it as long you wish right?

Yes. That's right. 

[Madyar]

just some advice small dosage of psyches could end up misleading , these compounds are very serious in the flesh! completely different from meditation and calming state , so if you willing to try just do it at your max tolerance , because you only learn lessons when it hit you hard enough at breaking point you could even end up detaching and leaving your body altogether at your will.

[Demeter]

5 hours ago, m0hsen said:

Basically with energy work practices you learn to control your prana energy, you can silence your mind and heal your chakras, remove blockages, so it can flow easily in your body.

You can also gain some healing abilities.

You may not feel anything at first practicing working with your energy, some people don't feel anything for a good year, you shouldn't be disappointed if you didn't feel anything at first, i could feel after 3 days of pranayama practice. After some time, it was all automatic, i stopped practicing it since the energy started flowing everywhere in the body automatically specialy in the spine without me doing anything.

@m0hsen, could you please say which Kriya techniques you used to get the stage where your energy was flowing on its own. Which other spiritual practices had you done to get you ready for this? 

[Demeter]

21 minutes ago, Madyar said:

just some advice small dosage of psyches could end up misleading , these compounds are very serious in the flesh! completely different from meditation and calming state , so if you willing to try just do it at your max tolerance , because you only learn lessons when it hit you hard enough at breaking point you could even end up detaching and leaving your body altogether at your will.

@Madyar , what Lsd dose would you suggest as being good for the max experience or thereabouts?

[Joker_Theory]

4 hours ago, m0hsen said:

You'll definitely get better trust me, but if you feel at some point in your practices that you need to stop it and pressures become intolerable for you, immediately stop all practises and let the system have some rest and recover and then later continue when you feel ready and fine.

About depression: something needs to break in you in order to end it, you really need to realize it in your direct experience that that shit which thinks and suffers is not you, having realized this will end the sufferings.

I will atm the pressure is just annoying but i can handle it and will def continue now with it till i can't anymore and will give my system rest.

I have realized that it's not me suffering an thinking is just me observing thoughts and it's not my thoughts and i def feel suffering ease up a bit but before long i am back to thinking i am the thinker or the sufferer so it's a process of remembering again and again...

[Madyar]

35 minutes ago, Demeter said:

@Madyar , what Lsd dose would you suggest as being good for the max experience or thereabouts?

it is good to go straight for some hands on lsd but be sure of it's origins as there are many fake ones out there, person to person differ but if you have a decent ability controlling your mind the 20 mcg is a safe place to start all the way to 120 mcg is the hit point , however highly suggest an experienced leader around for high dosage as disorder is possible but if you can prepare some natural based one like shrooms or peyote or mescaline you are sure of it's purity although the extraction method for mescaline or san pedro is really an art but it's def worth the whole process as they are really alive plants! 

Edited January 28, 2021 by Madyar

[vladorion]

Why are people so sure psychs are the most effective method when there are literally no people who got enlightened by using psychs?

[Javfly33]

11 minutes ago, vladorion said:

Why are people so sure psychs are the most effective method when there are literally no people who got enlightened by using psychs?

That logic is not good.

 

[Madyar]

15 minutes ago, vladorion said:

Why are people so sure psychs are the most effective method when there are literally no people who got enlightened by using psychs?

take a step towards maybe you find out why. you don't become enlightened you are enlightened these are tools to observe it better.

[TheSelf]

2 hours ago, Demeter said:

@m0hsen, could you please say which Kriya techniques you used to get the stage where your energy was flowing on its own. Which other spiritual practices had you done to get you ready for this? 

Simple spinal breathing, which you imagine the flow of energy  going up from the base of spine to the top of the head, and down. Also did a lot of meditation on the center of forehead which is related to Ajna chakra or third eye that results in seeing swirling purple light in meditations. After some time i started to hear primordial "OM" sound, which was very weak at the beginning, but then i just meditated on this sound until it became stronger and more clear, obvious, then in one of the meditation sessions, a strong flow of energy automatically entered my spine (probably activated Kundalini), it was painful and pressure was great, but i kept the meditation for good 3 hours, after this, the flow of the energy became automatic, and i could feel it all the time, specially in meditations, mostly in hand and spine. These days the flow of energy is way more stronger and is everywhere. Specially if i do energy work.

Good to mention that i did all these practices in a silent environment living alone and not with too much distractions. 

Edited January 28, 2021 by m0hsen

[Demeter]

@Madyar , interesting that you mention 120mcg as an experimental dose. I started with 200mcg (from a reliable medical source) which was good in that I had some beautiful experiences of vastness as well as insights relating to various things in my life. I then proceeded to 300 mcg which gave me the experience of the great void. I've also used 100mcg but while this was intuitive and insightful, it lacked the transcendence of the higher doses. My sitter, who is quite experienced suggested I should try 500 mcg as he found me far too much in control - this advice I'm happy not to follow.

[Demeter]

@m0hsen , thank you.

[Nahm]

12 hours ago, ZubPrem said:

1.) Awakening with psychedelics         Vs       2.)Sober awakening

Two. Twoness is not actual reality, but is the experience of thought, of believing thought, and thus believing in meaning. 

Up means not down, down means not up. Without down, up is meaningless, just air smacking lips. Without up, down is meaningless, just a sound. What happens when this illusion of twoness, of thought, of meaning, is recognized?

This is the “fear” of the finite mind, which doesn’t know ‘who’ or ‘what’ it really is, because ‘who’ it really is forgets it’s own infinitude by appearing as, the finite mind. “Finite”, as in, not-infinite, not-me, other-than-me. Like a magnifying lens magnifies, a finite lens finites: twoness, thoughts, meaning, separation, this and that, up and down, me and world, me and other, life & death, love & hate, and so on. 

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Is there any difference between the two?

Differences in the twoness activity of the finite mind. Differences are established via meaning. Without difference, sameness is meaningless. Without sameness, difference is meaningless. Difference & sameness are the illusion of the finite mind, via believing thoughts, believing meaning, mistaking its actual reality, for any ‘other thing’, other than itself, infinity. Without fail & without exception this experience feels off, because the finite mind can believe but can not change or escape the truth of “it’s own” nature, yet there is the apparent experience of freedom (more meaning), and the finite mind is completely free to suffer and hold itself in the bondage of “it’s own” thoughts, beliefs, concepts, and meaning. It can get quite mean in deed. 

Thought & meaning are creator-creation-communication, of creator-creating-creation. There are not two communicating, there is the experience of communication.  Expressing & exercising preferences, the appearance that is the finite mind creates appearance, with appearance, as appearance. Preferences are an appearance and are of a source, desire. Desire is love, expressing itself, via appearing to itself, as itself. Human desire is the ‘echo’ of the veiled unconditional love (nonduality) into the apparent world, via the apparent finite mind. Communicating & sharing preferences, what is not-two experiences twoness, and co-creates.  In this sense, meaning (thought, twoness) is of this world. Humans (thought, twoness) are / is of this world. Experience (appearance) is of this world. You are not of  this world, though by all logic it appears as if you are. (Logic, based on meaning, based on thoughts, which are an appearance). How readily available direct experience is, as thoughts are ‘magically’ appearing & disappearing now as you continue reading and projecting meaning onto a secondary source. 

“This world” does not have an “other world” to compare it to, because this world in actuality is an appearance. To compare a mirage to a thought of a mirage is to miss the true nature of a mirage. Thought is a mirage. Awareness is the desert of the real. The finite mind, attached already to “it’s” “differences”, refutes the truth that it is only an illusion of the desert. The finite mind can never realize, accept, or comprehend this, because realization, acceptance, and comprehension are illusion within illusion, thoughts within an illusionary “my” “finite mind”. 

You may not notice, but you create meaning. You are the Creator, and as such you are so good at creating, that even as you read these very words you project that the meaning is ‘coming to you’ from “this other thing”, a screen, a person, a internet. The fundamental belief is that meaning, or anything, is coming from a secondary source, a belief which perpetuates the illusion only in the finite mind not turning within upon itself and discovering it’s actual reality is The One Source That Is. The illusory finite mind believes “it’s” own illusory beliefs, and thus erroneously believes, there really are two. 

Quote

Or it just don't matter at all

Always is & will always be up to you. 

The finite mind quite literally makes up fear, uncertainty, self doubt, frustration, blame, anger, hatred, envy, jealousy, insecurity, despair, loneliness, shame, guilt, grief, etc...and experiences the result of it’s own ignorance as stress, tension, worry, contraction, depression, dis-ease, and an overall apparent lack of well being.

Well Being is indicative of, is, without condition or exception, the source and only reality of the “finite mind”, which in “it’s” own illusions of it’s own (no one else’s) justifications, rationalizations, and conceptualizations of these experiences of feeling, does not know it is already “it’s own” source. 

There truly is no “you” which “something other than” “you” could rightfully be said to matter, to.  That is only the experience, of “thoughts”. 

This “mattering” is also referred to as “your” “conditions”. Whatever “you” say matters to “you”, appears to actually matter, to “you”...because “you” are the One, saying it matters, to “you”, and believing whatever that is, that it is, other than you. This is thought attachment, and why meditation is so often recommended. Whenever thought activity settles, the true nature, the already actual source & reality of the finite mind, ‘arises’, and fills the ‘finite mind’ with insight - with “it’s” own true nature. 

Beliefs are no more than thoughts repeated, which settle in meditation. Identity is no more than beliefs, which settle in meditation. Equally, in exact measure, when the activity of thought, belief, and identity settle, that which they truly are, which is now unfettered by the activity of nonsense, illuminates the finite mind and body and fills ‘it’ with Reality, which is pointed to with the words love, peace, passion, creativity, joy, and happiness. 

Psychedelics strip away thought activity, beliefs, and identity, revealing the true nature, “the truth”, “reality as it is”, or, nonduality. Beliefs and identity which have not been inspected, are still active (yet properly settled), and believed. Thus the illusion of identity ‘returns’ as the effect of the psychedelic weens. As the beliefs and thus identity ‘returns’, the finite mind claims the experience absorbing it into it’s own illusory identity, by believing the thoughts (appearing now - “memories”) in a hindsight manor, strengthening the illusion of separation, or the idea of not-source, two. More psychedelics, beliefs & identity still unchecked, un-inspected, unresolved, results in more strengthening of the illusion of the reality of the finite mind, increasing the illusory interpretations of experience & separation from the source. 

Meditation does not involve the experience of a secondary substance ‘ripping away’ belief & identity. Thus in meditation beliefs and identity is surrendered, and along with it, all suffering. This is witness, experienced, with sober clarity as it occurs. Thus, misunderstanding, misinterpretation, and ultimately misidentification are seen, be Clarity, or, the emptiness-fullness, or, the very source of the illusion, and the finite mind is transcended, though upon this transcendence, ‘right view’ and ‘right mind’ have come to stay, in the realization no illusion, and therefore no universe, self, world, nor transcendence actually occurred. Like all things, all substances, all thoughts, non-excluding opinions about meditation & psychedelics, and all else (experience) are clearly not-two, and this “transcendence” never actually occurred, as there is nothing to transcend, sans the appearance of ignorance, of, forgetting your infinitude. 

This is, you might say, to ‘God’... a Day. That is, “you” “woke up this morning”, is meaning which is dualistic, being believed. It is based on the belief you slept last night. Proper inspection, such as the scrutiny of direct experience vs thought & belief, reveals no direct experience of sleep whatsoever, and “death” is no different.

 “I woke up this morning” is a meaning contingency upon “I slept”, which is a belief and not a direct experience.

Likewise, “dreams” of the finite mind in kind are never directly experienced, but are known in the exact same manor, as a “memory”, a thought appearing now (“when you wake up in the morning”) which is believed to be indicative of “a past”, in this case, “while I slept” - in “hindsight”, of a past, which is only a belief, an actually-now-thought.

There is never the remnant of a dream in which you were certain of a “you” in a bed, sleeping & dreaming. To dream, “you” “go to sleep” & thus become the dream. Infinite Being (you) appearing now as Infinite Mind (still you) is exactly the same. But “you” believe it’s a “physical reality”, for lack of properly inspecting a dream, and thus experiencing the greatest of all experiences, the absolute best of “both worlds”, the undeniable fact that you are lucid dreaming, right now. 

Yet as always, the lucidity is up to you, because this is in fact, your dream. 

Within, rather than without, is the way. In-ception, rather than con-ception, is the way to lucidity. 

@ZubPrem

This is not a “right” answer, this is a dream. Psychedelics, are dream. Meditation, is dream. But that was a really great question. Thanks! 

[Madyar]

11 hours ago, Demeter said:

@Madyar , interesting that you mention 120mcg as an experimental dose. I started with 200mcg (from a reliable medical source) which was good in that I had some beautiful experiences of vastness as well as insights relating to various things in my life. I then proceeded to 300 mcg which gave me the experience of the great void. I've also used 100mcg but while this was intuitive and insightful, it lacked the transcendence of the higher doses. My sitter, who is quite experienced suggested I should try 500 mcg as he found me far too much in control - this advice I'm happy not to follow.

edited dosage multiple times as you can see  really hard to suggest dosage for others , great then as i said magic shrooms or mescaline have a blasting effect multiple times greater than lsds , and honestly leo is really gifted for having access to golden one (5 meo) is really precious i think and no where to be found.