No Internal Monologue

[Nahm]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

The neurons in your brain are constantly firing away and they don't shut down unless you go unconscious (like sleeping or coma). 

neurons exist. And the brain activity is responsible for every aspect of your experience. It's a whole field now into itself "neuroscience".  That has no contrast or contradiction with meditation and spirituality etc.. We should integrate science with spirituality rather then Dismissing it. You are using a gadget right now to type your comments thanks to scientific advancement. 

Also... You see I don't take these epistemic flaws for granted anymore "just because you aren't directly experiencing it.. Then it doesn't exist". If you apply that principle in your life you won't know who's shoe to put on in the morning. 

?? One interpretation and projection is that a Nahm is dismissing science. Another is that you are dreaming nahm & science, but that implies “it” is actually you, so this would not actually be an interpretation, but just simply, being. If you own the dismissal, unconscious, sleeping, coma, neurons, brain activity, responsibility, you can inspect it. You find it continues to appear, and that “it” is you....

1 hour ago, ivankiss said:

How can you negate something that doesn't exist?

...and “you” are Nothing, this, is Nothing, and what may have been thought to be “non-existence”, or “the negative”, or “the negator” or “the negation” of any thing...is the very punchline. 

 

 

[Nahm]

@James123 ? ❣️

Peace & love brother. 

 

[James123]

@Nahm Much love and respect to you brother ❤️ ✊ 

Peace! ?

[LastThursday]

3 hours ago, ivankiss said:

12 hours ago, LastThursday said:

Thought is much broader than a voice in your head. It's images, sensations, feelings, sounds, memories. In fact having a hallucinatory voice following you around is as weird as having an imaginary best friend. After all, people who supposedly "hear voices" are possibly mentally ill (they are wrong however!). 

Well yeah. In a sense; this chair in front of me is a thought, too. Not just the conceptual layer I project over it, but the actual thing. 

However; that's not what I was trying to point at in this thread. Rather just simply the inner voice, the constant narrative, that most of us have.

 

18 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Right now, I can stop all thoughts for a few seconds or maybe even minutes... But how about living your entire life that way? Now that's just mind-blowing.

I was answering this statement. You're clearly equating thought with internal monologue; so this seems to be your underlying point. And, I was simply saying that thought isn't just restricted to internal monologue - which is I suspect news and even mind blowing to some. I'm not expanding the definition of "thought" to "perception" itself though, although I wouldn't object to that. So thought is all the non-physical stuff in your experience, the inner world, although that definition is quite woolly - I wouldn't want to class dreaming as thought per se.

I do believe that some people find it impossible to picture stuff in their mind's eye, I find that mindblowing. But hey.

Edited January 28, 2021 by LastThursday

[SOUL]

3 hours ago, m0hsen said:

You don't force it to stop, you don't fight with your mind, but experiencing much less thoughts is the consequence of a proper peaceful meditation. And eventually gaining control over your mind.

You'll eventually realize it with your direct experience.

It's not that I disagree with much of what you say here but ultimately it's not control over the mind as much as it is through the ceasing of 'doership', resting in awareness as you said which can also be called 'just being' the mind ceases to spontaneously create the activity we call 'thoughts'.

Yet, it doesn't ever really cease all of this activity completely because every sense of our manifest body happens in our imagination which all of these can be considered our 'thoughts' so for it to completely cease would mean our experience of manifest existence in life would cease with it.

Our being is expressed in manifest existence so our dancing and dreaming in life are the divine fruit of our being not the bane of it.

[ivankiss]

@Nahm I'm guessing the punchline is nothing. 

This is the Will of God. Form is. Experience is. Thoughts are. I am. 

 

[TheSelf]

59 minutes ago, SOUL said:

It's not that I disagree with much of what you say here but ultimately it's not control over the mind as much as it is through the ceasing of 'doership', resting in awareness as you said which can also be called 'just being' the mind ceases to spontaneously create the activity we call 'thoughts'

you are talking about the ultimate stage so yes as you progress ultimately you'll realize your true self, and the sense of doer ship is no more!  the rigid believe in I am who doing everything will be gone. even in ultimate stage you are just yourself, changeless, nothing can change about your 'self'. 

59 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Yet, it doesn't ever really cease all of this activity completely because every sense of our manifest body happens in our imagination which all of these can be considered our 'thoughts' so for it to completely cease would mean our experience of manifest existence in life would cease with it.

Our being is expressed in manifest existence so our dancing and dreaming in life are the divine fruit of our being not the bane of it.

body, universe, divine, God that you know about are all imaginary, you don't have any body nor know what divine, God, or universe is in sleep, so better not pay so much attention to our imaginations!  we do lose the whole universe including our thoughts about our body every night we go to sleep or better to say we just stop imagining it! so why even caring about it.

Edited January 28, 2021 by m0hsen

[ivankiss]

2 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

I'm just curious what the will/force is to you and how it manifests in the world.

'Let there be Light'

[SOUL]

6 minutes ago, m0hsen said:

you are talking about ultimate stage so yes as you progress ultimately you'll realize your true self, and the sense of doer ship is no more!  the rigid believe in I am who doing everything will be gone. 

body, universe, divine, God that you know about are all imaginary, you don't have any body nor know what divine, God, or universe is in sleep, so better not pay so much attention to our imaginations!  we do lose the whole universe including our thoughts about our body every night we go to sleep or better to say we just stop imagining it! 

Just by adding the word ultimately you don't change anything.

Whether it's the first step or last step of the journey and initial stage or ultimate stage and any other way you want to frame it the ceasing of self identity attaching is the path of nondoership. Being is just being.... we don't 'do' being.... we be even if we believe we do. It's present at all steps and stages.

You are conflating imaginary with 'does not exist', everything is imaginary but that isn't the same as everything 'does not exist'. It's something that once you have direct experience of it's obvious how the dogma doesn't reflect reality.

[TheSelf]

33 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Whether it's the first step or last step of the journey and initial stage or ultimate stage and any other way you want to frame it the ceasing of self identity attaching is the path of nondoership.

there's no such thing as path of nonedoership!! what is this?

33 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Being is just being.... we don't 'do' being.... we be even if we believe we do. It's present at all steps and stages.

Well I agree! have i said anything against what you said? i said our 'self' is changeless reality, real in all states. 

33 minutes ago, SOUL said:

You are conflating imaginary with 'does not exist', everything is imaginary but that isn't the same as everything 'does not exist'. It's something that once you have direct experience of it's obvious how the dogma doesn't reflect reality

it seems like you've got more work to do in the path of your self-realization! you don't know what is awareness.

in your thought process there's still unconscious belief of physical outside world apart from you which is false.

everything is imagination means everything is literally imagination. but from a materialist's perspective objects have their own independent existence apart from us, you need to contemplate what's awareness, and what imagination literally is.

sit and contemplate the difference between an apple which you can imagine in your mind and a "physical", "real" apple which you know. think about how you experience both.

Edited January 28, 2021 by m0hsen

[SOUL]

15 minutes ago, m0hsen said:

there's no such thing as path of nonedoership!! what is this?

Well I agree! have i said anything against what you said? i said our 'self' is changeless reality, real in all states. 

it seems like you've got more work to do in the path of your self-realization! you don't know what is awareness.

in your thought process there's still unconscious belief of physical outside world apart from your awareness which is false.

everything is imagination means everything is literally imagination. but from a materialist's perspective objects have their own independent existence apart from us, you need to contemplate what's awareness, and what imagination literally is.

sit and contemplate the difference between an apple which you can imagine in your mind and a "physical", "real" apple which you know. think about how you experience both.

If there is no path there are no stages and no 'ultimately', either.... so which is it?

My path to self realization? I thought you said there is no path....oh and the self is imaginary, right? Even 'true self' too since "everything is imagination", so realize the imaginary?

It seems my awareness is just fine.... I see right through this dogmatic rhetoric with absolute clarity.

Peace.

[TheSelf]

20 minutes ago, SOUL said:

If there is no path there are no stages and no 'ultimately', either.... so which is it?

of course there's path to self-realization but it's the first time I've heard of path of "nonedoership" ! are you really in path of "nonedoership" or path of self-realization? you ultimately wanna realize who you are! that's it. why messing and playing with words? 

20 minutes ago, SOUL said:

My path to self realization? I thought you said there is no path....oh and the self is imaginary, right? Even 'true self' too since "everything is imagination", so realize the imaginary?

dude!! what are you talking about? who said the self is imaginary? the self is that which imagines! pay attention to that which exist in all states. don't care about states, that changeless stateless witness which is you are reality. very simple.

 

again if you contemplate the nature of imagination and how it works you'll get it.

Peace.

Edited January 29, 2021 by m0hsen

[SOUL]

21 minutes ago, m0hsen said:

of course there's path to self-realization but it's the first time I've heard of path of "nonedoership" ! are you really in path of "nonedoership" or path of self-realization? both are the same, but ultimately you wanna know who you are! that's it. why messing and playing with words? 

dude!! what are you talking about? who said the self is imaginary? pay attention to that which exist in all states. don't care about states, that changeless stateless witness which is you are reality. very simple.

 

again if you contemplate what imagination literally is and how it works you'll get it.

Peace.

It's only your imagination that anyone is messing or playing with words.

You say everything is imagination....self is a sense of form.

Awareness is free of form.... transcend the notion of self to realize aware being is formless, even of witness or observer.

There is nothing to get, it's realized in letting go.

Hah!

Peace

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by SOUL

[TheSelf]

12 minutes ago, SOUL said:

You say everything is imagination....self is a sense of form.

Awareness is free of form.... transcend the notion of self to realize aware being is formless, even of witness or observer.

 

Dude! Go and do the work, and then come back to talk about, the self or awareness, witness or anything you like! I said all I've realized with my direct experience and contemplation! Realization is simple, don't make it complicated.

 

Much love ♥️

Peace.

Edited January 29, 2021 by m0hsen

[Moksha]

Just watched the OP's video. She strikes me as someone that has no internal monologue, only because she has no filter. She says whatever her conditioned mind tells her to say. That is as egoic as someone running a constant stream of internal thought, but not vocalizing everything.

Whether thoughts are expressed or not, is not the point. It is about identifying with those thoughts. Awakening is the realization that you are the Watcher of the mind, not the mind itself.

For people that I consider enlightened, there is a dramatic reduction in thought, whether it is vocalized or not. They are pure awareness, bringing intensity to whatever they focus their awareness on. Even simple acts like drinking a glass of water or observing the leaves of a tree become more beautiful and refined, because they are performed with awareness, uncluttered by the monkey mind.

Just be.

[TheSelf]

1 minute ago, Moksha said:

Awakening is the realization that you are the Watcher of the mind, not the mind itself.

 

For people that I consider enlightened, there is a dramatic reduction in thought, whether it is vocalized or not. They are pure awareness, bringing intensity to whatever they focus their awareness on. Even simple acts like drinking a glass of water or observing the leaves of a tree become more beautiful and refined, because they are performed with awareness, uncluttered by the monkey mind.

 

Just be.

Beautifully explained! ❤️?

[SOUL]

36 minutes ago, m0hsen said:

Dude! Go and do the work, and then come back to talk about, the self or awareness, witness or anything you like! I said all I've realized with my direct experience and contemplation! Realization is simple, don't make it complicated.

 

Much love ♥️

Peace.

If there is no path, there is no work, it's all in the imagination.

You got the dogmatic spiritualist rhetoric but I can see right through it.

Yup, simple.

Peace

[TheSelf]

41 minutes ago, SOUL said:

If there is no path, there is no work, it's all in the imagination.

You got the dogmatic spiritualist rhetoric but I can see right through it.

Yup, simple.

Peace

Go and do the work and stop messing with your mind and judging others! I've never said there's no path.

[SOUL]

9 minutes ago, m0hsen said:

Go and do the work and stop messing with your mind and judging others! I've never said there's no path.

There's no work to 'do'....the mind mess and judging is only in the imagination.

So simple.

Peace.

Edited January 29, 2021 by SOUL

[PureRogueQ]

7 hours ago, Someone here said:

@Nahm neurons exist. And the brain activity is responsible for every aspect of your experience. It's a whole field now into itself "neuroscience".  That has no contrast or contradiction with meditation and spirituality etc.. We should integrate science with spirituality rather then Dismissing it. You are using a gadget right now to type your comments thanks to scientific advancement. 

Also... You see I don't take these epistemic flaws for granted anymore "just because you aren't directly experiencing it.. Then it doesn't exist". If you apply that principle in your life you won't know who's shoe to put on in the morning. 

I was thinking today about shift I experienced, like seriously it is amazing, you will never have a clue till you get to be like that yourself, it is not like states you acquire trough awareness practices , or some self inquiry where you get detached from your ego, but ego still functions.

Ego is literally gone, as if costume that you had all this time gets removed and you seriously have no clue how much you really had under it until it is gone, what is left is not some non thinking being, or some ecstasy that makes you jump out of joy of all the wonderful emotions that you have, emotions are good alright, but you are not controlled, reactive to them.

 

So I was thinking, if this has something to do with brain,  does it mean that some part of the brain is responsible for all of this information and if this shift happens because it is  possible to shut it down, there might be possibility that in future it will be easy to do it with some device.

 

Another idea I had is that maybe it does not  get shut down, but maybe it is shift of thinking processor, reason being that it resembles process  of when you are disoriented and you find that one landmark that spins your view point to your inner compass.