Gamestop stock situation

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Emerald said:

If your teachings are only for a small slice of the population, why are they out on YouTube for everyone to see?

Because I gotta find those 1% from the general population. It's a numbers game.

Quote

If your teachings are for a tiny slice of the population, why allow 1 million plus subscribers to access them?

1 million is a tiny slice of the world population. My channel is fulfilling my stated goal. If I was grifting and clickbaiting to attract more subscribers then you might have a point. But I do the opposite. My videos are less mainstream than ever in trying to appeal to people's low consciousness cravings.

I could easily make videos about weight loss, sex, making money, marketing, pickup, etc. I generally don't.

Quote

But if you were truly operating from a space of consciousness with regard to Spiral Dynamics, you would recognize that you can't just skip Green... and that each rung of the ladder is contingent upon the stage before it. 

I don't advocate skipping Green, unlike say, Ken Wilber & Beck. I am generally very supportive of Green and I'm the guy who told you guys that the next stage is Green.

But this does not mean I will go along with every cockamamie Green scheme. And I question whether these Reddit daytraders are truly Green. They are more like Orange, trying to get rich off Wall Street hate.

Quote

And you should see signs of Green as very promising and as a harbinger of human evolution... even if it is an expression of our evolutionary growing pains.

I do.

Quote

In fact, we NEED to develop Green as a foundation for Yellow and Turquoise teachings. You can't skip a Spiral Dynamics stage. Skipping stages just means that we won't have the internal or external infrastructure for the ability to develop the stages thereafter.

I say this frequently.

Quote

So, if you're really in favor of a Tier 2 society... then you would see the immense value in moving deeper into Stage Green. And part of that is the development of class consciousness and the ability to recognize that we, as average people, have been on the receiving end of class warfare... and that we can fight back through organizing against the powers that be. And this is the deeper value of this situation.

That's all fine, but these Reddit daytrader are not your friend.

You're a bit like the MAGA crowd who is siding with Trump on the grounds that he will fix the elites. Except he's part of the problem.

Daytraders are not gonna fix the capitalism problem.

Quote

If you were truly operating from a Tier 2 space with regard to this issue, you'd recognize that each stage on the spiral is integral for human evolution and the gradual unfolding of human potential. And if you think that will be a smooth process, then I suggest you take a peek at a history book at how we've gotten to the stage on the Spiral that we're currently at.

It's not just about stages, it's about recognizing healthy and toxic aspects of each stage and encouraging the healthy while discouraging the toxic. Here I'm discouraging toxic Green, so we can have healthy Green.

Quote

The level of development that we currently have is the result of many ups and downs of human evolution: the good, the bad, and the ugly.

No dispute there.

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Emerald

   Him not sharing his part of knowledge in YouTube, is like him refusing to fish for really good fish, despite knowing other ways of fishing. If he hadn't shared his knowledge, I wouldn't have come across actualized.org and developed as much as I have today, and maybe some people here mostly come across actualized.org from him posting videos on YouTube. A person that hordes knowledge in private is a half-assed fisherman.

But he was saying that his teachings are for a tiny slice of the population. That's why I was taking him to task for it.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Emerald said:

But he was saying that his teachings are for a tiny slice of the population.

I am fully in alignment with this.

[andyjohnsonman]

This is an interesting read from an integral perspective on this situation.

 

https://integrallife.com/the-gamestop-revolution-has-started-it-wont-be-televised/

[Emerald]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's all fine, but these Reddit daytrader are not your friend.

You're a bit like the MAGA crowd who is siding with Trump on the grounds that he will fix the elites. Except he's part of the problem.

Daytraders are not gonna fix the capitalism problem.

It's not just about stages, it's about recognizing healthy and toxic aspects of each stage and encouraging the healthy while discouraging the toxic. Here I'm discouraging toxic Green, so we can have healthy Green.

No dispute there.

I'm not saying that day-traders are going to fix the Capitalist problem. And I'm pretty sure you know that that's not my stance, given our conversation a day or two ago.

What I am saying is that there is immense value in this having happened as it lays bare the pre-existing corruption in the market for all to see. And this is HUGE in regard to the development of Green in a more widespread sense.

It wakes people up a bit more because it gives the average person a peek behind the curtain of the corruption in the stock market... and the fallacious myth that there is truly a meritocratic "free market". And it also shows the average person that there is strength in numbers when it comes to fighting against said Orange corruption.

And perhaps, now that average people have been shown en masse that they can play the same game as hedge funds, that these outlets of market fuckery will be closed to both royal and peasant alike.

OR the government will step in and do something really anti-peasant and authoritarian which would also show the average person that the system stacked against them... thus waking the general populace up even more to deeper levels of class consciousness and the awareness of the class warfare already being waged at them constantly.

Also, even though this is much more destructive... the MAGA thing is helpful in the big picture too, as it shows people more about how propaganda works and how human beings respond to it. And it also gives our system a stress test. I know I've woken up a lot politically in response to this whole Trump situation... and I know I'm not the only one. It has politicized an otherwise politically unaware facet of society... the sleeping Green. I think it will prove to be integral in the process of human evolution.

And now, we will be much more aware and prepared the next time the threat of Fascist take-over rears its ugly head. I know I was blindsided in 2016... as were many others. Now, it won't be such a surprise to those who oppose it.

So, I stand by what I said... If you're really operating from a Tier 2 position, then you would recognize how positive this turn of events is towards the development of human society along the spectrum laid out in the Spiral Dynamics model... NOT because "Yay! We get to manipulate the market too!" but because it's been illuminating to the games already being played with the market and how it is stacked in the favor of elites.

That's why this situation is a net win for society at large... and I celebrate it as such.

 

[aurum]

There's too much "eat the rich" vibes that are going on with whole situation now.

Don't get me wrong, I do support it. And I don't intend to tell redditers they shouldn't be mad or not to seek justice.

No, they are justified in all of that.

But at the same time, all that anger is creating an obviously lack of empathy and awareness here.

Hedge fund managers and wall street executives are not the evil people they are being portrayed as.

In fact, I see them as much the victim of our systems as the redditers.

How traumatized do you have to be to want to be a hedge fund manager?

Just because they're the ones making money doesn't mean they're not a victim.

[Emerald]

1 minute ago, aurum said:

There's too much "eat the rich" vibes that are going on with whole situation now.

Don't get me wrong, I do support it. And I don't intend to tell redditers they shouldn't be mad or not to seek justice.

No, they are justified in all of that.

But at the same time, all that anger is creating an obviously lack of empathy and awareness here.

Hedge fund managers and wall street executives are not the evil people they are being portrayed as.

In fact, I see them as much the victim of our systems as the redditers.

How traumatized do you have to be to want to be a hedge fund manager?

Just because they're the ones making money doesn't mean they're not a victim.

It's an issue with the system. If there are levers to pull to manipulate it, people will try to pull them.

Hedge fund managers have been doing so for a long time. Now, day-traders did the same thing.

But the significant thing is that the response was totally different. It's business as usual when hedge funds do it... but economic terrorism when day-traders do it. And the average person sees that that is unfair... and that's HUGE.

This tells you everything you need to know about the system and how those with money and power rig it in their favor to accrue even more money and consolidate even more power. It also shows you who truly owns the government and mainstream media, when you see the systems in place bending over backwards to protect the interests of Wall Street.

So, we have the systems issue that we can work on. And we have the issue of class warfare... which disproportionately effects the average person. 

But sure. We also have to address the reason why there are people who want to hoard so much more money than they could ever spend in a lifetime... who are willing to mess over so many people to do so.

These people are not demons. They are regular people who happen to be motivated by greed, just like any person can be... and greed is motivated by deeper emotional issues and the epistemological issues around self-worth. 

[Leo Gura]

@Emerald From the highest perspective everything is Perfect. So bring on the rapists, barbarians, grifters, cultists, nazis, racists, terrorists, etc. It will all work itself out.

Don't forget, terrorism is nothing more than a reaction of poor and victimized people against oppressors, exploiters, capitalists, and imperialists.

[abrakamowse]

26 minutes ago, aurum said:

Just because they're the ones making money doesn't mean they're not a victim.

This is super wise.

?

[aurum]

5 minutes ago, Emerald said:

It's an issue with the system. If there are levers to pull to manipulate it, people will try to pull them.

Hedge fund managers have been doing so for a long time. Now, day-traders did the same thing.

But the significant thing is that the response was totally different. It's business as usual when hedge funds do it... but economic terrorism when day-traders do it. And the average person sees that that is unfair... and that's HUGE.

This tells you everything you need to know about the system and how those with money and power rig it in their favor to accrue even more money and consolidate even more power. It also shows you who truly owns the government and mainstream media, when you see the systems in place bending over backwards to protect the interests of Wall Street.

So, we have the systems issue that we can work on. And we have the issue of class warfare... which disproportionately effects the average person. 

But sure. We also have to address the reason why there are people who want to hoard so much more money than they could ever spend in a lifetime... who are willing to mess over so many people to do so.

These people are not demons. They are regular people who happen to be motivated by greed, just like any person can be... and greed is motivated by deeper emotional issues and the epistemological issues around self-worth. 

Well said.

Even if you have awareness, it’s hard to argue either side of this without coming across as missing the bigger picture. 

If I say “redditers have gone too far”, then it can look like I’m unaware of the systemic problems and history of corruption we face. Plus victim shaming.

If I say “eat the rich”, then it can look like I hate rich people and support vigilante justice.

Really the truth is highly nuanced in all of this. I’m appreciating just how challenging communicating about these social problems can be.

 

[Emerald]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Emerald The the highest perspective everything is perfect. So bring on the rapists, barbarians, grifters, cultists, etc. It will all work itself out.

Obviously I'm not saying that. Please stop straw-manning my argument.

I'm saying that this having happened is a net win, not because "Yay! We can all fuck with the market now!"

But because, now that average people have discovered en masse that they can fuck with the market, that there will be changes in the way things are handled. And this is because the existing power structures are the way they are to protect the financial interests of the owner class.

And now, that the owner class's financial interests are being threatened and the devil is being hoisted on his own petard...

Either...

a. The levers of market manipulation will be closed to both royal and peasant alike

OR

b. Wall Street will pay off politicians to green-light legislation that cracks down on peasants but not on elites. And because this is a huge story, the average people will see this and become more aware of the class warfare being waged upon them by elites. And this will likely lead to more class solidarity. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Emerald

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Obviously I'm not saying that. Please stop straw-manning my argument.

I wasn't strawmanning your argument. I was saying what is actually true.

The higher your perspective gets the less there is to criticize, until it gets high enough and then you become silent because it is Perfect. This is the problem with all these debates. It's an argument over nothing.

[Emerald]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I wasn't strawmanning your argument. I was saying what is actually true.

The higher your perspective gets the less there is to criticize, until it gets high enough and then you become silent because it is Perfect.

Yes. This is true... but also incomplete as your perspective edits your own feelings and perspectives out of the perfection. You still create the dichotomy of internal response vs external happening. Both are a manifestation of the perfection of that which is. 

Part of that higher perspective is to realize that our human responses to the current events are also a manifestation of perfection.

So, if I am in the higher perspective, and I am in the middle of a war zone... I will recognize the perfection even as there is pain and suffering.

But likewise, when I feel sorrow in response to that pain and suffering and a desire to change the situation... my feelings and desire to change the situation are also a manifestation of the perfection.

And this is because internal and external is a false dichotomy. 

When one becomes more conscious, it is not that they feel less desire to ease the suffering of others. But the desire to ease suffering comes without grasping and aversion... and that ability to hold space for anything that arises, both internally and externally.

But my point that I was making in the last post is that both this day-trading and the MAGA situation are going to be helpful for human evolution in the long-term perspective.

But the MAGA thing is worth fighting against because of the more immediate consequences... and also the fighting against it is part of the evolution. And the Gamestop situation, at its current state, is worth being celebrated for what it has revealed... and also the fact that it will most certainly be reigned in fairly quickly, as it is against the financial interests of the owner class. 

In the more relative sense, the MAGA thing is perhaps a necessary fire to burn in the long run... but threatened to create a lot of immediate damage. So, it's important to extinguish it if we can. But this Gamestop situation is also a necessary fire... but there is very unlikely to be a long-term threat because of the powerful people it might impact. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Emerald

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Emerald said:

But the MAGA thing is worth fighting against because of the more immediate consequences. And the Gamestop situation, at its current state, is worth being celebrated for what it has revealed..

Highly relative stuff.

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Highly relative stuff.

Certainly it is as I am speaking from the perspective of the relative paradigm. 

Anything to do with human evolution is ultimately going to deal mostly with the relative perspective as these are the things that play out within Maya. 

[Leo Gura]

@Emerald I mean it's relative whether you judge these situations as being helpful or harmful to the advance of democracy.

Did 9/11 advance democracy? Did MAGA? Did the Capitol riot? Did slavery? Did capitalism? Did socialism? Did Hitler? Do hedge funds? Does Wall Street?

Who's to say? It's not as clear as people think.

You say that this Reddit stuff advances democracy. But that's not so clear to me.

The problem is that you can make an argument that anything advances democracy, if you take a wide enough perspective. Hence our disagreement.

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@Emerald I mean it's relative whether you judge these situations as being helpful or harmful to the advance of democracy.

Did 9/11 advance democracy? Did MAGA? Did the Capitol riot? Did slavery? Did capitalism? Did socialism? Did Hitler? Do hedge funds? Does Wall Street?

Who's to say? It's not as clear as people think.

You say that this Reddit stuff advances democracy. But that's not so clear to me.

The problem is that you can make an argument that anything advances democracy, if you take a wide enough perspective. Hence our disagreement.

The reason why I view it as a clear advance in societal evolution toward Green in the more zoomed in perspective, is because it has demonstrably increased class consciousness... in a way that sweeps across all of society. And it hasn't lead to any significant number of people jumping on the side of hedge funds. 

The key difference between the Gamestop situation and most of the others you'd mentioned is that there is a direct correlation to Green evolution with the Gamestop situation instead of of an inverse correlation to Green evolution with many that you mentioned.

For example, we could say that MAGA, the Capitol riot, slavery, Capitalism, Hitler, hedge funds, and Wall Street have all played a part in opening society's eyes to Green in an inverse way. It shows the opposite of Green and wakes us up by contrast. So, if our goal is societal evolution and not societal devolution or stagnation, then we can recognize that the fighting against these things will more objectively lead to Green (and thus the stepping stones to an eventual Tier 2 society) than to let them fourish. 

But in the case of the Gamestop situation, this plays a direct (instead of inverse) role in greasing the wheels towards Green as it has directly lead to more class consciousness. And thus, there is little benefit with regard to societal evolution for those in the peasant class (and yes, I include you in this class even if you have built some wealth for yourself) to rail against it and dismissing it as unilaterally negative... as this does have many more immediate positive potentialities. 

And it's of especially little benefit for the peasant class to become selectively outraged at day-traders on Reddit while giving hedge funds (that have engaged in this kind of thing for a very long time) the shoulder shrug of acceptance... and to wag fingers and say, "two wrongs don't make a right" while not having treated hedge funds with a consistent amount of finger wagging. 

This is the basis upon which I see the Gamestop as a situation that doesn't need to be poo poo'd by the peasant class. But instead, to be seen as a small evolutionary victory... as it has done the job of directly opening people's eyes... as opposed to opening people's eyes by contrast.

Also, there is the fact that these levers of manipulation won't be available to the average person for long. Wall Street certainly won't just sit idly by and let the peasants rig their own rigged casino against them. 

So, there probably won't be long-term negative effects in the same way that there has been long-term negative effects from hedge funds rigging things in their favor and manipulating the market for such a long time. 

Edit: Here's a more concise way to explain it...

Fighting against the things you mentioned IS what greases the wheels of societal evolution.

Fighting against the Gamestop situation doesn't do anything significant towards societal evolution as fighting it just maintains the status quo. 

If the average person fights against it, it would mostly just squelch the valuable insights that can be gleaned from it. It would throw the baby out with the bathwater. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Emerald

[abrakamowse]

[Leo Gura]

@Emerald We'll have to see the blow back.

There can be elements of toxic Green which do not help Green's cause. Like Antifa. I would argue that Antifa has done more harm to Green than good as it makes Green look unhinged.

Reality evolves in twisted and inverted ways.

[Preety_India]

I hope these redditors face penalties big time.