Frank Yang and Leo Gura: permanent shift question to Leo

[Digi Pal]

Leo, can you tell me if you have gotten a permanent shift or enlightenment after all these years of doing psychedelics and self inquiry. How is someone like Frank Yang who was a total noob just a few years ago able to attain a permanent shift, then surely you must have attained such state by now. If you haven't, why not yet? Surely by now you would have it "locked in" like Frank Yang  and isint that ultimately what this channel was based upon? I mean 5meo dmt is great and all, but as you said it didn't improve your baseline. Frank Yang has said his baseline state is like a permanent 5meo trip, so I am wondering where you are in terms of baseline at after all these years since you said you still have a ton of work to do. Do you still have a sense of self? 

Edited January 27, 2021 by Digi Pal

[Flyboy]

I think this post a little deliberately inflammatory, but my understanding at this point is that there is a sensate aspect of enlightenment that is reached through extreme meditative investigation.  I don't fully understand this path as of yet, but it seems like it relates to eliminating the "separation" or "delay" between sensation and perceiver, until ultimately when the two become identical for all sensations experienced, the "rug is pulled from under" the separate inside self, as there is nowhere left for an identity to hide.  This is so-called "permanent" enlightenment.  (Also, do not underestimate the amount of work Frank Yang put into his achievement--some 7,000 hours of obsessive meditation.  Daniel Ingram relates a similar effort.  This method is HARD.)

However, virtually all enlightenments have to do with a temporary or permanent falling away of the conceptual self, so it is conceivable that this sensate method is not the ONLY method which achieves this.  For example, Ralston essentially advocates a kind of self deconstruction, while Spira is more about gradual dissolution through recognition of awareness, while Eckhart Tolle dropped his ego in place of suicide.  5-MeO eliminates the ego chemically (though usually temporarily), as do many other psychedelics.  Glimpses seem to result from momentary "cessations" of ego.  A glimpse is not discredited by being momentary, though it does unfortunately get relegated to "concept" as soon as it is in the past, technically putting it in belief territory.  Still, a memory/belief of direct experience is probably the next best thing to an on-going direct experience.

That being said, as Leo and others have indicated, I think the depth to which one can "awaken" can only be an infinity beyond all concept of infinity, if reality is in fact Absolutely Infinite.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Flyboy

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Digi Pal said:

. Frank Yang has said his baseline state is like a permanent 5meo trip, so I am wondering where you are in terms of baseline at after all these years since you said you still have a ton of work to do. 

"Frank Yang says..."

[Digi Pal]

@Flyboy I'm just trying to clarify if Leo is "locked in" like frank Yang is into a "permanent state" of enlightenment ( which frank Yang  says is like a permanent  5meo trip ) after so much time doing these practices, or is he still stuck in the ego mind after coming down from his trips. In other words, is he natty realized.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Digi Pal

[blackchair]

let them fight! ( eating popcorn) 

p.s you guys are amazing!

[Flyboy]

11 hours ago, Digi Pal said:

@Flyboy I'm just trying to clarify if Leo is "locked in" like frank Yang is into a "permanent state" of enlightenment ( which frank Yang  says is like a permanent  5meo trip ) after so much time doing these practices, or is he still stuck in the ego mind after coming down from his trips. In other words, is he natty realized.

Unlikely, as he himself has said.  But his own comments have indicated that between Actualized.org and his health issues, he has not had the time to pursue it hardcore in the way that Yang did.  Also, VERY few people ever get that far on the meditation path, it's like going to the Olympics.

[Michal__]

12 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

"Frank Yang says..."

"Leo says..."

[Consilience]

3 hours ago, Flyboy said:

Also, VERY few people ever get that far on the meditation path, it's like going to the Olympics.

Why do you think this? 

[Valwyndir]

Frank Yang's shift isn't permanent nor not permanent.

Enlightenment isn't like a scratch off ticket. It's not that black and white. It's much more fluid.

Frank Yang appears to be identified with this new perspective as if he can't go back to his old perspective.

Enlightenment isn't a game of give and take. With each new perspective you still keep the old perspectives.  

The old perspectives can't be deleted; they can only be ignored.

The universe is an infinite computer in which nothing can be deleted because nothing has anywhere to go. 

Many gurus get stuck in certain states and believe they've found "it." As if there is an "it" to be found.

You are absolute infinity by nature. You will slowly explore yourself but never fully know yourself. And that's the beauty of reality.

The bottom line: Frank will realize he's been grasping onto his new non dual state which takes away from the beauty of dualism.  

True non duality is fluidity between duality and non duality. 

[The Lucid Dreamer]

Yeah, I’m highly... highly skeptical of Frank Yang’s claim that his baseline state of consciousness is equivalent to a 5-Meo-DMT trip.  Just cause someone makes a claim like this does not mean we need to necessarily believe it.  And even if it is true, then I would posit that he has some incredibly abnormal neurology. 

[TheAlchemist]

@Valwyndir Connor, if you realized right now you only had a few moments left to live, what would be the irreducible expression of your teaching?

[zeroISinfinity]

Ok. Interested in this topic. Just an curious observer. 

Also interested in teachings. 

Edited January 27, 2021 by zeroISinfinity

[Eren Eeager]

11 minutes ago, TheAlchemist said:

@Valwyndir Connor, if you realized right now you only had a few moments left to live, what would be the irreducible expression of your teaching?

Is he Connor murphy? 

[Valwyndir]

2 minutes ago, TheAlchemist said:

@Valwyndir Connor, if you realized right now you only had a few moments left to live, what would be the irreducible expression of your teaching?

This is the best I've seen. I asked some lunatic YouTuber what reality is and he sent me this. 

[zeroISinfinity]

7 minutes ago, Eren Eeager said:

Is he Connor murphy? 

@Valwyndir May I attend your yoga session? I would like that. 

[Eren Eeager]

50 minutes ago, Valwyndir said:

Many gurus get stuck in certain states and believe they've found "it." As if there is an "it" to be found.

 

what do you mean here? 

 

[Nahm]

@Valwyndir Nailed it.  (The video)

[Eren Eeager]

1 hour ago, Valwyndir said:

Frank will realize he's been grasping onto his new non dual state which takes away from the beauty of dualism.  

True non duality is fluidity between duality and non duality. 

I thought once you go nondual you automatically embrace the dual. like seeing your hand, you see it as a hand and as consciousness also. So what do you mean by him not embracing duality. Is he  actually experiencing nothingness and nothingness only, like pure nothingness?   

[RedLine]

 Frank Yang is not a noob, he said he meditated 10.000 hours

And Leo didn´t get permanent shift. Probably because he is too lazy to do the work, it's easier to take a trip and claim that you found the mysteries of the universe

Edited January 27, 2021 by RedLine

[Carl-Richard]

36 minutes ago, RedLine said:

Probably because he is too lazy to do the work

Gary Weber meditated 20000 hours before he got it. Was he lazy?

http://growbalance.se/2016/11/20/ph-d-happiness-10000-hours-meditation-actually-brain/