Sunnis and Shiite Are Somehow Different IMO

[Gesundheit]

41 minutes ago, Mesopotamian said:

These are rumors, and he might received some knowledge, but the Quran itself, it is Muhammed ho devised it himself, he truly believed that someone is whispering it in his ears or an angel appears before him whom only him can see. Why do you have a problem with entertaining his claims?

You're trying to recite the conspiracy theory widely available on mainstream. We here on Actualized.org are supposed to be better, at least you have to entertain that Muhammed was truthful in his experiences. Revelation stopped could be because he was troubled and wasn't able to get to the same mental state he used to access before his brother in law's death took place.

I did not say he didn't experience whatever he experienced. You should seriously stop projecting your assumptions. He was extremely delusional imo experiencing hallucinations, which I don't consider real, even though I don't doubt that he did actually experience them. But my point still stands that he was a religious nut that studied Christianity deeply even though he was illiterate.

Most of the Quran is stories about past prophets and civilizations (and most of the stories are about Moses, Pharaoh, and Israel), which is basically all coming from Christianity and Judaism, not really Mohammad. I've read quite a bit from the Bible, and there are a lot of shared stories. And yet the bible has much more details.

P.S. When his first wife died, the insights and revelations did not stop, even though he said he loved her above all humans. So your explanation doesn't make sense.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Gesundheit

[Seeker531]

Thank you fore teaching me mental gymnastics at work.

The thing is, you developed further than many people in your country, but in order to understand the other afore mentioned perspectives you've got to grow alot more. Maybe it's better to be more self aware. All the way alobg the line it gets more sophisticated and appears more true.

Btw, Enteties are as real as everything in your mind. One can learn techniques or a strong trip on dmt or shrooms or salvia etc and check how helpful they might be. 

Regards

[Seeker531]

I am sorry to say that but I want to point out to you that you have basically the same mind set like those fundamentalist people you were complaining about in your other threads. Just listen to what almost every one ever replied and look what that might imply. Maybe there is a slight chance you will learn from it..

 

 

[Mesopotamian]

10 hours ago, Seeker531 said:

I am sorry to say that but I want to point out to you that you have basically the same mind set like those fundamentalist people you were complaining about in your other threads. Just listen to what almost every one ever replied and look what that might imply. Maybe there is a slight chance you will learn from it..

 

 

Leo does agree with you when he closed that thread. I am not aware, of that,  but I think I am being perverted as a fundamentalist and trying to spread dogma. I didn't intend that at all. I'll have you know and everybody that I have ran from ISIS twice, and lived in a city that they were very active, even had close personal encounters with some of them.

I think that my audience should be more open-minded, cuz I think you are color-blind towards Islam. You have absolutely no idea of what it is. Gosh you have no idea about what's like to live in a less-developed country on the spiral spectrum, all you have is  mere theories, again, another situation where you confuse the territory with the map.

Last time is when you tried to fit my country 'Iraq" into the category of countries, and you neglect the fact that countries actually only be functional as a part of the world system of stat at only stage-orange and above.

Stage blue country like Iran will have to disintegrate and re-invent itself in order to tend for state-orange values. When you don't acknowledge facts like these, you'll only create suffering.
 

11 hours ago, Seeker531 said:

Btw, Enteties are as real as everything in your mind. One can learn techniques or a strong trip on dmt or shrooms or salvia etc and check how helpful they might be. 

I will never be able to try that unless I break out from the situation imposed on me in Iraq.

[Mesopotamian]

On 1/29/2021 at 0:46 AM, Gesundheit said:

P.S. When his first wife died, the insights and revelations did not stop, even though he said he loved her above all humans. So your explanation doesn't make sense.

She was 25 years older than him, he probably got her terminated in order to be able to stick his penis inside a younger pussy.

On 1/29/2021 at 0:46 AM, Gesundheit said:

Most of the Quran is stories about past prophets and civilizations (and most of the stories are about Moses, Pharaoh, and Israel), which is basically all coming from Christianity and Judaism, not really Mohammad. I've read quite a bit from the Bible, and there are a lot of shared stories. And yet the bible has much more details.

He has done much travel, so he might be familiar with Christian news, for sure he faced the bible at some points, cuz he devices many verse about it, and about virgin marry, and Jesus,

I objected about the part that his in-law has told him everything, cause usually people might say that the same guy was responsible to write the Quran and make Muhammed memorize it.

[Gesundheit]

29 minutes ago, Mesopotamian said:

She was 25 years older than him, he probably got her terminated in order to be able to stick his penis inside a younger pussy.

Lol nice projection. He said she supported and believed him when everyone else dismissed and shut him down. That's why he loved her the most. Even years after her death, he would go and retreat for days at her grave.

29 minutes ago, Mesopotamian said:

He has done much travel, so he might be familiar with Christian news, for sure he faced the bible at some points, cuz he devices many verse about it, and about virgin marry, and Jesus,

I objected about the part that his in-law has told him everything, cause usually people might say that the same guy was responsible to write the Quran and make Muhammed memorize it.

I'm not interested in these Muslim vs. atheist arguments. And I certainly can't know for sure. But it seems fairly safe and reasonable to me to assume that he learned a bunch of stories and wisdom from his in law.

People who accuse Mohammad of memorizing are often atheists who think that the Quran is somehow an infallible and eloquent book, which I'm not, and don't. In fact, I think it's full of errors, self-deceptions, hallucinations, logical fallacies, biases, both mental and emotional manipulations, and judgments.

Edited January 30, 2021 by Gesundheit

[Mesopotamian]

36 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Lol nice projection. He said she supported and believed him when everyone else dismissed and shut him down. That's why he loved her the most. Even years after her death, he would go and retreat for days at her grave.

I mean he had a shadow as his wish to choose a wife himself was oppressed when Khadija chose to have him as a husband. So he went on a marriage spree, he even got the 13 years old or 9 depending on the source (Aisha).

[Gesundheit]

@Mesopotamian He wasn't weird or anything. Polygamy was the norm back then. In fact, the more women a man could marry, the higher status he would get. He regulated marriage for his people down to a maximum of four women for each man.

Same thing about the paedophilia thing. It was normal back then to marry a girl right after puberty. And if you think about it, the modern 18 years old bar is artificial and really irrelevant to growth and maturity. So it's relative to society.

Edited January 30, 2021 by Gesundheit

[Seeker531]

Never mind, just work on yourself. Look up shadow work on youtube and try to watch your thoughts and after some time you will see some repeating behavior patterns. 

I think it is a mistake to assume that you know islam by just looking at it mostly in your country and wahabism. But fact is that it is in every country a little bit different. The formalities night be the same but religion goes far deeper than that. One has to include the comunity work that is done as well as the society and education and even if you live in a poor part of the city or a village. You can check that up on youtube or by watching al Jazeera english. 

Look where I live there are a lot of muslims from very different parts of the world and when you get to kniw them a little bit closer you will notice most of them heavily differ on the degree of believing and what they believe and even how they believe. thats a matter of the things I mentioned above. 

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[Mesopotamian]

10 hours ago, Seeker531 said:

Never mind, just work on yourself. Look up shadow work on youtube and try to watch your thoughts and after some time you will see some repeating behavior patterns. 

I think it is a mistake to assume that you know islam by just looking at it mostly in your country and wahabism. But fact is that it is in every country a little bit different. The formalities night be the same but religion goes far deeper than that. One has to include the comunity work that is done as well as the society and education and even if you live in a poor part of the city or a village. You can check that up on youtube or by watching al Jazeera english. 

Look where I live there are a lot of muslims from very different parts of the world and when you get to kniw them a little bit closer you will notice most of them heavily differ on the degree of believing and what they believe and even how they believe. thats a matter of the things I mentioned above. 

. 

We are mostly arguing IMO about categorizing thoughts, and people, but to what degree the Islam should be different to be categorized as a completely new separate religion or dogma?

I mean if we argue like this, maybe we can say that Muslims are neo-Christians, I mean they do believe in Jesus as a prophet too at least, but not a God or a son of God.

Muslims themselves say they are one of the three Heavenly, or divine inspired true religions.

If we can establish what's the purpose of our process of categorization, maybe we can better reach to an agreement.

Why do some people desperately want to prove that Islam evolves, and that the more peaceful variation can represent Islam better than Wahabisim? Isn't that also a biased way to view things? Yes everything changes as time passes, but what about the rate of that change, and what about if there are certain paradigms that appear to be changing but in fact they are not, while some core concept within it remains untouched?

 

[Gesundheit]

@Mesopotamian

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.cook-greuter.com/Cook-Greuter%209%20levels%20paper%20new%201.1'14%2097p%5B1%5D.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjc-LPw2sXuAhWyz4UKHRhgAUEQFjAAegQIAxAC&usg=AOvVaw2z0GB2aqBusOhdJS7ToQ9o

[Mesopotamian]

@Gesundheit All are watched once, planning to re-visit later.