Are there people who regret enlightenment?

[Moksha]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

Sorry to break it to you, but unless you are Awake in the NOW, having a "memory" of being Consciousness will probably ease the pain, but it won't make you untouchable.

Being awake in the now is precisely what enlightenment is. In that moment, there is no suffering. If you fall asleep after that, you are no longer in a state of enlightenment, and can suffer again. Simple.

As to whether people can attain permanent enlightenment:

Samadhi can come and go; generally it can be entered only in a long period of meditation and after many years of ardent endeavor. But one verse (5:28) adds the significant word sada, "always." Once this state of deep concentration becomes established, the person lives in spiritual freedom, or moksha, permanently. This is extremely rare. Mystics of the West as well as the East have attained brief glimpses of unity, but very few can be said to have dwelt in it permanently, as if it were their natural habitat. In the West the most prominent figures are Meister Eckhart, St. Teresa of Avila, and St. John of the Cross, though there have been others. In the Hindu tradition there is a long line of saints and mystics who have tried to communicate something of the nature of this union with Reality or God, from the unknown recorders of the Upanishads through the Buddha, Shankara, and Meera, to Ramakrishna and Ramana Maharshi. 

- Commentary on the Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 5

The wise master their senses, mind, and intellect through meditation. Self-realization is their only goal. Freed from selfish desire, fear, and anger, they live in freedom always.

- Bhagavad Gita 5:28

[allislove]

Imagine you are a kid playing the favorite toys in bath, so one duck "asks" another duck through your voice: "Are there ducks who regret knowing that they are played by me?" 

I'd say: "There is only you, enjoy playing" ?

[James123]

4 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Lord of the gods, you are the abode of the universe. Changeless, you are what is and what is not, and beyond the duality of existence and nonexistence. You are the first among the gods, the timeless spirit, the resting place of all beings. You are the knower and the thing which is known. You are the final home; with your infinite form you pervade the cosmos.

Bhagavad Gita 11:37-38

?❤️
 

6 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Yes, people sometimes only realize ultimate reality, and don't yet realize that relative reality is also part of God. God is both ultimate and relative reality, and is beyond the duality of existence and nonexistence.

It is a paradox that is beyond the capacity of the human mind to comprehend, which is why it is called a Mystery. It can be directly realized, but not conceptually understood.

?But just saying that with enlightenment, realization happens that there is no reality, god, paradox, human, mystery, existence or nor not existence. Separation or nothing has ever happened. “I, universe, god” has never began. Now is before birth and there is no such a thing as universe, I, or duality. Thats why considering duality and non duality is mystery of god is just another thought or illusion. Thats what enlightenment or nirvana reveals.

 

14 minutes ago, Javfly33 said:

Hell yeah

??
 

 

 

[James123]

5 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

That's why Jewish people didn't want to call it GOD or anything... instead of calling it Yahweh they called it  YHWH or other weird words, anyway it was still duality but you get my point, right?

Got it brother.?But, unfortunately,  Dont know about jewish people. But Followers of Buddhism don't acknowledge a supreme god or deity. They instead focus on achieving enlightenment—a state of inner peace and wisdom. When followers reach this spiritual echelon, they're said to have experienced nirvana. The religion's founder, Buddha, is considered an extraordinary man, but not a god.

https://www.history.com/topics/religion/buddhism

 

[abrakamowse]

23 minutes ago, James123 said:

Got it brother.?But, unfortunately,  Dont know about jewish people. But Followers of Buddhism don't acknowledge a supreme god or deity. They instead focus on achieving enlightenment—a state of inner peace and wisdom. When followers reach this spiritual echelon, they're said to have experienced nirvana. The religion's founder, Buddha, is considered an extraordinary man, but not a god.

https://www.history.com/topics/religion/buddhism

 

That's because religions tend to give reality properties of a divinity... I think Buddha didn't want to talk about it and didn't say he was a deity or things like that because he knew reality can't be conceptualized and probably it was better for his teachings to keep it that way.

[James123]

2 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

That's because religions tend to give reality properties of a divinity... I think Buddha didn't want to talk about it and didn't say he was a deity or things like that because he knew reality can't be conceptualized and probably it was better for his teachings to keep it that way.

Maybe, but most likely, It is Because god is nothingness. And if you say “God”, “I”, “am” vs.. comes from the so called “mind”. When you realize what you are, there is no one or no self to say or claim something from the “I”.

[abrakamowse]

@James123 Would you say that pure consciousness equals nothingness?

[StarStruck]

53 minutes ago, allislove said:

Imagine you are a kid playing the favorite toys in bath, so one duck "asks" another duck through your voice: "Are there ducks who regret knowing that they are played by me?" 

I'd say: "There is only you, enjoy playing" ?

I don't like that idea.

[James123]

7 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

@James123 Would you say that pure consciousness equals nothingness?

Yes brother? 

[abrakamowse]

@James123 Thanks!

[StarStruck]

1 hour ago, allislove said:

Imagine you are a kid playing the favorite toys in bath, so one duck "asks" another duck through your voice: "Are there ducks who regret knowing that they are played by me?" 

I'd say: "There is only you, enjoy playing" ?

I get that but if you are watching a movie and you are really into it, you don't want the lights of the cinema room to go on, wouldn't you?

Edited January 26, 2021 by StarStruck

[Moksha]

@James123 Nothingness is also a dualistic concept  The Mystery goes deeper than that.

 

[abrakamowse]

@Moksha Everything is dualistic... the only thing is some fingers point to the moon a bit more accurately...

or maybe not... hehehe...

Edited January 26, 2021 by abrakamowse

[Vibroverse]

Regret implies that there is a past. When you wake up it is only now. 

[Moksha]

3 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

@Moksha Everything is dualistic... the only thing is some fingers point to the moon a bit more accurately...

or maybe not... hehehe...

Even duality vs. nonduality is a duality. People keep trying to understand it, instead of realizing the Tao Te Ching really meant what it said. 

[abrakamowse]

@Moksha I know

[James123]

20 minutes ago, Moksha said:

@James123 Nothingness is also a dualistic concept  The Mystery goes deeper than that.

 

No it is not brother. When you drop or forget everything  “you know” including “yourself “, You realize what you really are and always been. Enlightenment is must to get this. Anything you know is an illusion. Nothingness can not be experienced, learned, sense, feel, understand vs. can just be and Only when you “not know” you can ”be”. 

Understanding is greatest illusion.

Buddha

Perfect answer for you by papaji (Nirvana vs Samsara). This is what enlightenment is. 
 

This is the video about nothingness can not be experienced. 
 

Good luck. 

29 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

@James123 Thanks!

Anytime brother. 

[allislove]

1 hour ago, StarStruck said:

I get that but if you are watching a movie and you are really into it, you don't want the lights of the cinema room to go on, wouldn't you?

Enlightenment doesn't change anything. That's already the case, you just didn't noticed it yet.


Let me give screen&movie analogy often used by Rupert Spira.

Before a self realization there was identification with a movie character. Then the screen is seen, call it glimpse to your true nature. Then the movie is realized as the screen: the movie is on the screen, experienced by the screen, made out of screen. After the self realization there is just screen, so the movie can be truly enjoyed, enjoyed for what is 

Before enlightenment: there is movie on the screen.
After enlightenment: there is movie on the screen.


It's basically very similar pointer: "Before one studies Zen, mountains are mountains and waters are waters; after a first glimpse into the truth of Zen, mountains are no longer mountains and waters are no longer waters; after enlightenment, mountains are once again mountains and waters once again waters."

[Moksha]

@James123 Great videos, thanks for sharing  I agree with Papaji. Emptiness cannot be experienced.

Papaji is encouraging us to let go of the mind, entirely. Why? Because our true nature cannot be conceptually understood. We don't have any idea what "God" is, so why pretend that we do?

Calling it "nothingness" is as dualistic as calling it "everything". Even calling it "God" is delusionary. Understanding is the greatest illusion.

The most honest answer is this: "I don't know, I simply am".

When I let go of my mind, I don't experience "nothingness". I have no name for it, because trying to name it is itself a delusion. I am happy to call Tat a Mystery, and leave it at that. All I can tell you is that when I let go of my mind, and abide in what remains, I am free from suffering. Therefore, the mind is suffering.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Moksha

[Nahm]

Just...if it’s useful...otherwise ignore, or open fire on the messenger. 

5 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

That understanding of enlightenment seems very simplistic.

The inhale & intention creating a single thought has already over complicated the truth, long before the vibration of the word. 

5 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

In reality enlightenment is much complex. But of course the mind wants it to be an off/on switch. 

The mind is the on & off switch of it’s own apparent complexity. 

5 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

But permanent is a human concept, there's nothing permanent.

Nothing is ‘permanent’, as in eternal. Human concept is nothing, the concept of human, is nothing. 

5 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

If you fall out of your super state awareness you will back to suffering.

What is the true thought about awareness, which the awareness thought of, is other than the awareness aware, of the thought?

What is a “you” which “has” awareness, which is not a thought, about awareness, which awareness is already aware, of?

5 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

God includes suffering in Infinity. It's ego which can't accept it 

What can nothing include, what can nothing exclude, as what is, is nothing? 

5 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Hell, even if you get enlightened for ever in this life, you will end up forgetting who you are and live another life dreaming 

How does awareness get awareness while awareness is already the awareness of the thought of what is gained & lost? 

5 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

So better surrender and accept the truth of impermanence.

What does nothing do to accept nothing, while nothing is nothing?