Question for guys - Have you ever wanted to be a girl just to be able to give birth?

[Gesundheit]

@modmyth Thanks for sharing your thorough perspective. A lot to contemplate, but I think I've got a good overall idea that helps me draw a few intuitive conclusions.

@tsuki Okay, let's put it this way: conscious desire vs. unconscious desire. Your point is included. Both men and women share the same unconscious desire. But why do they differ in their conscious desires?

Edited January 28, 2021 by Gesundheit

[tsuki]

48 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Okay, let's put it this way: conscious desire vs. unconscious desire. Your point is included. Both men and women share the same unconscious desire. But why do they differ in their conscious desires?

I, personally, am scared that a child will learn how I act and reflect all of my shadows right back at me. I'm terrified of growing up this fast. If I fail, I will pass on the generational trauma on. Too tall of an order for me, as I've struggled of getting free of it for my whole adult life.

So, if I were to generalize my experience, I'd say it's probably a result of trauma in men. Many of us did not experience a proper childhood and a genuine connection with our fathers, so we don't feel secure in our ability to connect with a child. World wars happened and traumatized the previous generations, so our fathers suppressed their feelings to the point of exclusion, just to make it to the next day, survive without breaking down. In doing so, they alienated boys because they didn't learn that a man feels. Manliness became pure skill with the exclusion of feelings, but underneath all of it, men didn't learn that the suppressed parts of us, rule us. So we transmute our feelings of hurt into aggression or explosion, can't cry, can't express or even name what bothers us. Aggression became part of masculine identity as a rationalization of trauma. Some traumatized women find it hot because of how their fathers treated them. The cycle perpetuates itself through generations because we can't step up and be more conscious. 

Of course, mothers have their touch in all of this as well. They married an aggressive, emotionally scarred man that controls them because men are so emotionally fragile that can't allow anything that defies their expectations to happen. So resentful mothers raise their sons by instilling the idea of a "divine woman" that shall never be hit, that shall be revered, to protect the next generations. In this, boys are treated like culprits of sins they have never committed and the only escape is into the mind that disassociates. Of course, this fuels their abstract intelligence because they can seemingly "look at the world objectively", without self-bias, never learning the the true self is still there, never even recognized and pissed as fuck. So, the societal pressure to "act manly" deteriorates our unconscious desire into something easy to measure or score, like the amount of times we've got laid. How hot of a women are you able to bang, on the objective scale from 1 to 10? Where are they on the "crazy-hot matrix"? All of this is fueled by our reverence of ambition. We believe that external, objective recognition will make us feel alive, while it is us and our disassociative minds that create this need in the first place. We are more autistic than women and this is both socially and biologically predetermined.

Edited January 28, 2021 by tsuki

[Gesundheit]

@tsuki Thanks for sharing ??

It looks that your heightened sense of responsibility is what's stopping you from desiring kids. I'm not sure I can say the same thing about other males, because most of them are immature and irresponsible, yet they somehow share the same stance as you. I guess probably you have better chances at raising high quality kids than most other males cause of your high level responsibility.

On the other hand, I don't think we can apply the same perspective on women. I mean the generational trauma part, because virtually all of us have it. But since women are generally more responsible than men, I think it could be naivety that blocks women from assessing the situation correctly, which makes them underestimate the challenges of raising a child, and in result making them want to have kids.

I really don't know. This is all just my vague understanding. The more I think about it, the more I feel lost. It seems like a very complex question. But thank you for the insightful responses. You gave me a few keys to contemplate and ponder upon.

[tsuki]

13 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

It looks that your heightened sense of responsibility is what's stopping you from desiring kids. I'm not sure I can say the same thing about other males, because most of them are immature and irresponsible, yet they somehow share the same stance as you. I guess probably you have better chances at raising high quality kids than most other males cause of your high level responsibility.

I think that I do have better chances of raising high quality kids as well, but I don't feel up for the task for the time being.

What I meant to express in the previous post is that the unconscious desire to have kids that is present in both sexes is skewed in men into conscious desire to have sex. I believe that this happens because of generational trauma that makes men escape their hurt into abstract intelligence. This compounds with their natural tendencies to systemize more than women. This is the reason for the seeming irresponsibility of the majority of men. 

I think that aligning our conscious desires with our unconscious ones is the path to healing. I think that women are much more honest in how they experience parenthood. They know what it's all about from the start and prepare for it deliberately.

13 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

But thank you for the insightful responses. You gave me a few keys to contemplate and ponder upon.

You're welcome. I enjoy conversations with you. Thanks to your questions I was able to formulate my position more clearly.

Edited January 28, 2021 by tsuki

[Leo Gura]

Plenty of men want to have babies, obviously.

[Greatnestwithin]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Plenty of men want to have babies, obviously.

Will you eventually want to have kids?

[somegirl]

55 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

@tsuki Thanks for sharing ??

It looks that your heightened sense of responsibility is what's stopping you from desiring kids. I'm not sure I can say the same thing about other males, because most of them are immature and irresponsible, yet they somehow share the same stance as you. I guess probably you have better chances at raising high quality kids than most other males cause of your high level responsibility.

On the other hand, I don't think we can apply the same perspective on women. I mean the generational trauma part, because virtually all of us have it. But since women are generally more responsible than men, I think it could be naivety that blocks women from assessing the situation correctly, which makes them underestimate the challenges of raising a child, and in result making them want to have kids.

I really don't know. This is all just my vague understanding. The more I think about it, the more I feel lost. It seems like a very complex question. But thank you for the insightful responses. You gave me a few keys to contemplate and ponder upon.

I can relate to heighten sense of responsibility blocking someone from desiring kids. I feel like most people (girls maybe more, generally) just pop out babies without thinking through what that entails.

But I feel like, if everybody were so super careful, noone would have babies. Lol

[somegirl]

As for child trauma, everybody has it. Women and men. We all have some unresolved childhood trauma so it shouldn't be used as an alibi to rationalize "men's lack of desire" (compared to women) to have kids.

Edited January 28, 2021 by somegirl

[tsuki]

28 minutes ago, somegirl said:

As for child trauma, everybody has it. Women and men. We all have some unresolved childhood trauma so it shouldn't be used as an alibi to rationalize "men's lack of desire" (compared to women) to have kids.

Childhood trauma manifests differently in men and women.

That is because men have feminine unconscious, while women have masculine unconscious. This is explored in Jung's works, and shaped in children by the relationship with the parent of the opposite sex. Trauma blocks mens' ability to empathize with themselves and others, while women become dependent and meek. The whole "daddy issues" and "mommy's" boy ridiculing is grounded in it.

28 minutes ago, somegirl said:

used as an alibi to rationalize "men's lack of desire" (compared to women) to have kids.

lol wut? Are men on trial here or something?

Edited January 28, 2021 by tsuki

[Gesundheit]

15 minutes ago, tsuki said:

Childhood trauma manifests differently in men and women.

That is because men have feminine unconscious, while women have masculine unconscious. This is explored in Jung's works, and shaped in children by the relationship with the parent of the opposite sex. Trauma blocks mens' ability to empathize with themselves and others, while women become dependent and meek. The whole "daddy issues" and "mommy's" boy ridiculing is grounded in it.

This sounds super interesting to explore!

Edited January 28, 2021 by Gesundheit

[somegirl]

@tsuki No, but by that logic, noone would have kids, because of childhood trauma (that everybody, including women, had) , is what I'm trying to say.

[tsuki]

15 minutes ago, somegirl said:

@tsuki No, but by that logic, noone would have kids, because of childhood trauma (that everybody, including women, had) , is what I'm trying to say.

You will have to write more of your reasoning because I don't see how it connects at all to what I wrote.

Trauma is a record of past events that is stored in the nervous system. A traumatized woman will act differently than a traumatized man because of the differences in their biology. What I said about traumatized men does not apply to traumatized women. I would not expect that traumatized women will avoid having children, like traumatized men. I would expect the opposite: that traumatized women would weave their identity around being a child-bearer. I did not write this before because I have no experience of being a traumatized woman, so it is a pure speculation on my part.

[asABOVEsoBelow]

I actually thought about creating an embryo and watch it grow in a big transparent artificial uterus . 

Imagining something else between my legs makes me cringe , never thought about having an embryo in my body  . 

 

[Abdelghafar]

No and I don't want kids now. Maybe in the future I'll change my mind, maybe not.

[Origins]

Right now I'm a sheep giving birth to a fucking cow crossed with the fattest shemales boob on the planet god get an imagination people seriously 

[Brandon Nankivell]

no