Are You Vegan?

[Roxane]

@key

On 10/6/2016 at 4:20 AM, key said:

I was vegetarian for 4 months then vegan for another 6, then I stopped, and went back to eating animal products as if it were nothing.

why? 

The last months of my vegan diet I slowly realised I was adding onto my identity as a "spiritual" person, thoughts appeared that it was better for me, I didn't support animal slaughter, I thought the transition of negative energy would effect my health, my ethics came into play, even social culture, morals, cause and effect, the future of this planet, ect.. were all my reasons 

But when I looked closely at each of my reasons, my emotional state, and what veganisim is as an idea, I realised quite simply they were grounded in nothing, and I was adding more layers to my identity then necessary, so I started acting on my more natural desires, you could say, trying to accept them while at the same time see them more clearly.

In the end it was the right step for me in my journey. 

Now this isn't to disagree with you or turn anyone away from such a lifestyle choice, I implore anyone to question their own decisions for themselves, but thought I'd throw in my 2 cents 

It's a pity that veganism is still perceived as a cult or a kind of sect... Veganism doesn't need to be anything so special as a "layer to your identity"

As you said, it is just healthier, better for the environment, and does not involve suffering.

You could check out the video of Bite Size Vegan "Are All Vegans Alike? | The Cult of Veganism"

It's a 4min piece presented with humor, and her conclusion is very simple “Go ahead and keep all your opinions, your personality, just stop being a dick to the animals – you don't have to become one of us"

And veganism is not only a decision for yourself, it has broader consequences. Referring to Bite Size Vegan again in "Is Eating Animals A Personal Choice?"

0:52 The animal products industry is the most environmentally destructive force on the planet.
1:54 If you chose to eat animal products, then you should be aware of what those choices really entail
2:22 Short footage of animal slaughter

 

[SFRL]

It's not like vegan or even being vegetarian is right for everyone. Not all body's are the same. 

[Roxane]

@SFRL

1 hour ago, SFRL said:

It's not like vegan or even being vegetarian is right for everyone. Not all body's are the same. 

Dr McDougall observed that a High Carb Low Fat Vegan Diet prevents and even cures most chronic diseases, and he (and many other doctors) believes it is supposed to be the human diet.

You could watch his 20min TEDx talk "The food we were born to eat: John McDougall at TEDxFremont": 

4:11 “Realize these are people of the same genetics, same kind of work for over 100 years on the sugar plantation. Yet before my eyes as a doctor, I saw people living on rice and vegetables (no dairy, just a little bit of meat at most): trim, healthy, hardy people. No MS, no arthritis, no diabetes, no heart disease in that first generation of people living on those traditional diets. Then I watched the second generation get fatter and sicker as they abandoned starch. And then the third generation, which feared starch (rice, corn, potatoes), and took on meat and dairy in their diet, and oils – they got fat and sick just like every other american. “

 

[Max_V]

Well I eat meat because that's what I get served on my plate every evening when my mom cooks dinner. I feel like they already adapt a lot to my Personal Development lifestyle, so it feels quite bad to ask my mom to not make meals with meat in them.

I know the benefits of going vegan from Sadhguru's book, and I plan on definetly going vegan when I start living by myself. The real enlightenment work will start for me then and there too.

[Roxane]

@Fidelio

On 5/9/2017 at 9:12 PM, Fidelio said:

I eat some meat, but I'd rather be a vegetarian. I'll also eat it when offered. Humans evolved to eat meat, and for our bodies to function properly we need nutrients that are difficult to come by outside of animal protein.

I also still believed that only a couple of months ago, but I found out that the myth of the "incomplete" plant proteins has been debunked.

Dr Greger for NutritionFacts.org in his video "The Protein Combining Myth": 

2:05 “It is true that some plant proteins are relatively low in certain essential amino-acids. So, about 40 years ago, the myth of 'protein combining' came into vogue. Literally, the February 75 issue of Vogue magazine, The concept was that we needed to eat 'complementary proteins' together, for example rice and beans, to make up for their relative shortfalls. This fallacy was refuted decades ago. The myths that plant proteins are incomplete, that plant proteins are not as good, that one has to combine proteins at meals – these have all been dismissed by the nutrition community as myths decades ago. But many in medicine evidently didn't get the memo. Dr. John McDougall called out the American Heart Association for 2001 publication that questioned the completeness of plant proteins. Thankfully though, they changed and acknowledged now that plant proteins can provide all the essential amino acids, no need to combine complementary proteins. It turns out that our body is not stupid, it maintains pools of free amino acids that can be used to do all the complementing for us.”

 

Dr Neal Barnard in his 20min TEDx talk "Power Foods for the Brain | Neal Barnard | TEDxBismarck":

12:52 “Back in 2009, my organization, the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, went to the Department of Agriculture. We said 'this is important, let's throw out the pyramid' – the pyramid was a nice shape, but it had a meat group, and it had a dairy group, despite the fact that people who don't eat meat or dairy products happen to be healthier than people who eat them. And also, who eats off a pyramid anyway? We eat off a plate. So we devised a plate that said fruits and grains and legumes (that's the bean's group), and vegetables. And those should be the staples. Well, we gave this to the USDA in 2009, and we didn't hear back from them. So, in 2011, we sued the Federal Government. The Physicians Committee filed a lawsuit against the USDA simply to compel response. And did you see what the US government came out in 2011? I'm not taking any credit for this, but this is now US Government policy, it's called MyPlate, and it does look in some way similar to what we'd sent them a couple of years earlier. Fruits and grains and vegetables, and they have this thing called 'the protein group'. Now, the protein group could be meat, but it could be beans, or tofu, or nuts, or anything that's high in proteins, it doesn't have to be meat. In fact, there is no meat anymore in federal guidelines. There is a dairy group there, but, to their credit, soy milk counts, So, things are improving.”

Edited July 27, 2017 by Roxane
highlights in bold characters

[Roxane]

@Max_V

31 minutes ago, Max_V said:

Well I eat meat because that's what I get served on my plate every evening when my mom cooks dinner. I feel like they already adapt a lot to my Personal Development lifestyle, so it feels quite bad to ask my mom to not make meals with meat in them.

I know the benefits of going vegan from Sadhguru's book, and I plan on definetly going vegan when I start living by myself. The real enlightenment work will start for me then and there too.

Yes it is often a very big deal to change the way of eating in a family, they are often very defensive about it. I'm in the process too. Good luck to you about it in the future. 

I see your signature "May all beings be happy, May all beings be at peace, May all beings be free", so it will definitely be worth it for you to go vegan at some point in order avoid animal suffering. 

I just watched this 7min video from Bite Size Vegan "The Nicest Way To Die [THIS VIDEO WILL CHANGE YOU!!]", maybe you could watch it when you decide to go ahead and give a try to veganism, but be careful, it is graphic. 

[SFRL]

2 hours ago, Roxane said:

@SFRL

Dr McDougall observed that a High Carb Low Fat Vegan Diet prevents and even cures most chronic diseases, and he (and many other doctors) believes it is supposed to be the human diet.

You could watch his 20min TEDx talk "The food we were born to eat: John McDougall at TEDxFremont": 

4:11 “Realize these are people of the same genetics, same kind of work for over 100 years on the sugar plantation. Yet before my eyes as a doctor, I saw people living on rice and vegetables (no dairy, just a little bit of meat at most): trim, healthy, hardy people. No MS, no arthritis, no diabetes, no heart disease in that first generation of people living on those traditional diets. Then I watched the second generation get fatter and sicker as they abandoned starch. And then the third generation, which feared starch (rice, corn, potatoes), and took on meat and dairy in their diet, and oils – they got fat and sick just like every other american. “

 

The quote itself states that those people ate meat. Not a lot, but some. 

Everyone will a agree that we went way overboard with the mass production of meat, and that there is evil in that, and that we don't need meat 3 or 4 times a day. 

But back in the day we ate animals and they did eat us, it was all fair play. 

The thing is they did not deprive themselfs of meat.

I have gone vegetarian for weeks by curcimstance and that was fine, but after a while I get weak. I am a 6'2" guy. 

Then I have known of vegetarians he did not eat meat for two decades since 9 years old. A woman. 

One thing I have seen is a guy who pretty much was forced to be vegetarian from a very early age. He had stretch marks all over his back. I have come across an article that stated that those stretch marks can appear when children grow up on a diet too low on meat and dairy. 

I don't think you can feed everyone the exact same diet for their optimum health. 

[RossE]

I've been on the whole foods plant-based diet for 5 weeks now and I will be staying with it. It's amazing. The food is great, my body feels great, I feel alert and clear. It has boosted my meditation practice.

It was primarily a health decision thing for me, but slowly I am becoming sensitive to the animal suffering aspect. I realise that we don't need to sacrifice so many animals - we could get by without animal products easily and let them all run free. I can also see the other side of the coin though. It does bring more overall awareness to the situation which I think is good.

The amount of garbage that is removed as a result of following this diet is incredible. Things that I used to perceive as being "quite healthy" are now obviously unhealthy - loaded with salt, sugar, sat fats, chemicals etc. Problem is that most Westerners have been consuming this food for so long that they actually think it's good for them. When evidence comes along, even something as large and comprehensive as the China Study, they won't listen. 

Edited July 26, 2017 by RossE

[Roxane]

@SFRL

11 hours ago, SFRL said:

The quote itself states that those people ate meat. Not a lot, but some. 

Everyone will a agree that we went way overboard with the mass production of meat, and that there is evil in that, and that we don't need meat 3 or 4 times a day. 

Indeed diets with very low amounts of meat (like 1 or 2 portions per week) proved being among the healthiest, like the traditional Okinawans

 

11 hours ago, SFRL said:

I have gone vegetarian for weeks by curcimstance and that was fine, but after a while I get weak. I am a 6'2" guy. 

It may be because you ate too much dairy products, or maybe you didn't eat enough calories from starches (potatoes, rice, beans...)

You could have a look at some vegan athletes YouTube channels, they show what they eat in a day, general lifestyle, workouts and nutritional tips: 

Jon Venus is in his 20s or 30s and Guilt Free TV is in his 40s

[SFRL]

1 hour ago, Roxane said:

@SFRL

Indeed diets with very low amounts of meat (like 1 or 2 portions per week) proved being among the healthiest, like the traditional Okinawans

 

It may be because you ate too much dairy products, or maybe you didn't eat enough calories from starches (potatoes, rice, beans...)

You could have a look at some vegan athletes YouTube channels, they show what they eat in a day, general lifestyle, workouts and nutritional tips: 

Jon Venus is in his 20s or 30s and Guilt Free TV is in his 40s

Yeah maybe. Or maybe I was eating all that stuff. I have eaten meat replacers a lot as well. Nothing wrong with tofu and vegan burgers etc. I like them. But they are not meat. 

That Jon Venus he must have some very good genetics. And like I said it's not the same for everybody. Not everybody got the same body type or same sort of genetics. 

Here is another report on a vegetarian bodybuilding diet. 

 

I don't believe we should not be eating meat. People can claim we were not supposed to be eating meat. But the Native Americans were eating meat when the Europeans got to America, and so do the tribes on the Amazon. They eat fish and meat. 

The Standard American Diet has too much processed meat in it, and too little vegetables. But what that says is that we should eat less processed food and more vegetables like 50 to 70 years ago. Not that we should not be eating meat.  

[Roxane]

@SFRL

Wow. I didn't expect that I would actually admire what these guys did. 

0:40 “When we decided to go vegetarian, it was for all right reasons, it was for animal cruelty, all that stuff, it was an emotional response. We didn't start being vegetarian because we thought it was healthier”
1:25 “Even though we didn't lose any strength, we did lose a considerable amount of muscles”
1:45 “Our brand is our body, so fuck it, (…), sorry”
2:19 “We still have our plant based diet, but we will consume meat occasionally, maybe 3 times a week”

Personally, I switched to a vegan diet because I realized it was the healthiest alternative long term, and I started to dig more into animal cruelty only after that. So I think that what they do is great. Respect. 

David Carter, an american football player, had actually a similar issue as them when he went vegan, he explains it in this interview of Vegan Food Share YouTube channel "Vegan Football Player David Carter shares his secrets.": 

3:25 “When I did go Vegan, I lost 40 lbs in that first 2 months. I was 305 and I got down to 265. And being a professional athlete and a defensive lineman, you have to be 300lbs (…) I got my weight back up to 295. But it definitely made me a better athlete, not only was I stronger, I was faster, but I didn't have any health issues”

5:32 “How do other players react when you try to get them to go vegan? Well, one of the first things I say to the players is that the average death of a football player is 56 years old, and that's a crazy statistics, and it's mainly due to heart disease and stroke, heart attacks, and those are food related illnesses. And I tell them that most players are dumb and are done playing when they are 30-32”

He speaks more about his health issues in this other interview from Bite Size Vegan "300 lb VEGAN NFL Football Player?! | David Carter Interview"

You could have a look at other very impressive athletes (cherry picked from Mic The Vegan video "Can Vegans Be Top Athletes?"):

David Haye, boxer

Kendrick Farris, olympic weightlifter

Patrik Baboumian, strongman

Torre Washington, Jim Morris, bodybuilders

[SFRL]

1 hour ago, Roxane said:

@SFRL

Wow. I didn't expect that I would actually admire what these guys did. 

0:40 “When we decided to go vegetarian, it was for all right reasons, it was for animal cruelty, all that stuff, it was an emotional response. We didn't start being vegetarian because we thought it was healthier”
1:25 “Even though we didn't lose any strength, we did lose a considerable amount of muscles”
1:45 “Our brand is our body, so fuck it, (…), sorry”
2:19 “We still have our plant based diet, but we will consume meat occasionally, maybe 3 times a week”

Personally, I switched to a vegan diet because I realized it was the healthiest alternative long term, and I started to dig more into animal cruelty only after that. So I think that what they do is great. Respect. 

David Carter, an american football player, had actually a similar issue as them when he went vegan, he explains it in this interview of Vegan Food Share YouTube channel "Vegan Football Player David Carter shares his secrets.": 

3:25 “When I did go Vegan, I lost 40 lbs in that first 2 months. I was 305 and I got down to 265. And being a professional athlete and a defensive lineman, you have to be 300lbs (…) I got my weight back up to 295. But it definitely made me a better athlete, not only was I stronger, I was faster, but I didn't have any health issues”

5:32 “How do other players react when you try to get them to go vegan? Well, one of the first things I say to the players is that the average death of a football player is 56 years old, and that's a crazy statistics, and it's mainly due to heart disease and stroke, heart attacks, and those are food related illnesses. And I tell them that most players are dumb and are done playing when they are 30-32”

He speaks more about his health issues in this other interview from Bite Size Vegan "300 lb VEGAN NFL Football Player?! | David Carter Interview"

You could have a look at other very impressive athletes (cherry picked from Mic The Vegan video "Can Vegans Be Top Athletes?"):

David Haye, boxer

Kendrick Farris, olympic weightlifter

Patrik Baboumian, strongman

Torre Washington, Jim Morris, bodybuilders

I don't know about all these guys but I know about David Hate though because I am a big boxing fan. 

And David Haye did not become world champion during his time as a vegan. He did not rise to the top on a vegan diet. 

He has been vegan for the past couple of years and he has had major issues with injuries. He has had injuries in the past sure, but the vegan diet is not doing anything for him to prevent that. His last fight he snapped up something in his leg during the fight. And therefore he lost the fight. David Haye hasn't won a major fight in years, and his best days in boxing are behind him. Not to say the guy ain't shit. He accomplished a lot actually. But that was on a meat eating diet. 

Out of all the  athletes on the world there can always be a few single cases that are vegetarian. But are they good at what they do because, or despite the vegan diet? 

I have never heard of any of the sports legends being a vegan or vegetarian during there too performing years. 

Floyd Mayweather, Muhammed Ali, Fedor, Michael Jordan, Michael Phelps none of these people are vegan or vegetarians. 

Then again though I am talking top performance in sports here, strength, speed, and endurance. 

For optimum health top performance in sports isn't an option healthy lifestyle. Although it beats the couch though. 

Also competitive sports are not for everyone. 

Then at the same time a lifestyle of eating salads, drinking green tea, and doing yoga isn't perfect for everyone either. Maybe for some, just not everybody. 

Like I started out, my main point is, a vegan diet, or any diet, is not perfect for every single individual. We got the respect the differences in individuals. 

Edited July 26, 2017 by SFRL

[Socrates]

@SFRL You complicate it too much. There is nothing magic about animal products in terms of nutrition. Everything you can get from animals you can get from plants minus the fats and cholesterol. Also an athlete's primary goal is not health, his goal is to win not to reach 90. There is enough scientific evidence proving the superiority of a vegan diet. Everything else is either an excuse, cultural influenced bias or just ignorance.

[SFRL]

15 minutes ago, Socrates said:

@SFRL You complicate it too much. There is nothing magic about animal products in terms of nutrition. Everything you can get from animals you can get from plants minus the fats and cholesterol. Also an athlete's primary goal is not health, his goal is to win not to reach 90. There is enough scientific evidence proving the superiority of a vegan diet. Everything else is either an excuse, cultural influenced bias or just ignorance.

So living until 90 is superior over getting the maximum performance out of your body for a short time? 

Sounds biased and narrow minded to me. 

I have had family living over a 100 eating meat, so how does that work? 

Edited July 26, 2017 by SFRL

[SFRL]

27 minutes ago, Spacious said:

@SFRL

What you're doing here is using anecdotal evidence to refute studies with a statistical significance in finding a vegan diet increases life's longevity.

There will always be exceptions to the point. 

 

Yeah exactley. Isn't that not how my prior points were trying to be debunked either? By anectodal evidence?

My while main point is: The same approx doesn't fit everybody.

Doesn't the fact that there are execptions proof that point anyways?

 

I don't think it's the vegan diet per se that increases longlivity. 

I think it increases the longlivity compared to a Standard American Diet. Which is a very bad diet. 

So why is that? Because vegans eat enough fruit and vegetables. And little processed food. 

That doesn't mean you can't eat meat and fish. That just means you need a balanced diet with vegetables and fruit in it as well. And not eat so much processed food. 

 

If you look at the pictures of people 60 to 70 years ago. Those people ate meat. But they looked slim and fit as fuck. On class photos they all looked like little ripped gymnastics machines. 

And people didn't die of diet related diseases like they do so often now. 

The Standard diet sucks these days. It still doesn't mean meat is bad per default setting. People are omnivours they can eat anything.  

 

 

 

 

[Little Plant]

People eat meat and think they will become as strong as an ox,

forgetting that the ox eats grass

[SFRL]

33 minutes ago, Little Plant said:

People eat meat and think they will become as strong as an ox,

forgetting that the ox eats grass

That's very clever but on top of every food chain is pretty much always a carnivore or omnivore. 

Edited July 27, 2017 by SFRL

[Little Plant]

“When diet is wrong, medicine is of no use. When diet is correct, medicine is of no need.”

-Ayurvedic proverb

 

“The greatness of a nation and it’s moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”  

- Mohandas Gandhi

 

“I hold that the more helpless a creature, the more entitled it is to protection by man from the cruelty of man”

- Mohandas Ghandi

 

“The soul is the same in all living creatures, although the body of each is different.”

-Hippocrates

 

"When you feel the suffering of every living thing in your own heart, that is consciousness" 

- -Bhagavad Gita

 

The fact that man knows right from wrong proves his intellectual superiority to the other creatures; but the fact that he can do wrong proves his moral inferiority to any creature that cannot.”

- Mark Twain (1835 – 1910)

 

“Non-violence leads to the highest ethics, which is the goal of all evolution. Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages.”

- Thomas Edison (1847 – 1931)

 

The Gods created certain kinds of beings to replenish our bodies; they are the trees and the plants and the seeds.”

-Plato

 

“Until he extends the circle of his compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace.”

- Albert Schweitzer (1875 – 1965)

 

“You can’t do anything violent humanely.”

-James Wildman

 

“The idea that some lives matter less is the root of all that is wrong in the world.”

-Dr. Paul Farmer

 

"I came across a YouTube video where this Krishna consciousness guy in India was talking about how it's difficult for Westerners to be saved because there's such little respect for life on the planet. This guy said, "How can you expect to be saved if you eat meat?".. So sure, man. I miss fuckin' Whoppers, but I also miss eight-balls and ganja. But I find being a vegan so rewarding that it's worth it for me."

-Steve-O

 

"Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.”

-Maya Angelou

[Little Plant]

22 minutes ago, SFRL said:

That's very clever but on top of every food chain is pretty much always a carnivore or omnivore. 

So.. what are you of those two? I understand restistance to not eating meat,it's like any other addiction og habit. And I'm not saying it's easy to transform that part of one's life, but a new world opens up when one closes :))) 

[SFRL]

35 minutes ago, Little Plant said:

So.. what are you of those two? I understand restistance to not eating meat,it's like any other addiction og habit. And I'm not saying it's easy to transform that part of one's life, but a new world opens up when one closes :))) 

You seem like a nice little hippy. I might give vegan a try sometime. I need to eat more vegetables anyways.