Are You Vegan?

[pluto]

I am not 100% vegan myself but with years of experimentation and exploration the results are solid as can be. For us to thrive at our optimal levels whole plant-based is the future and will be the future.

Do i have to post this again?

Its Inevitable, although you are free to live as you wish, please don't try spread misleading and outdated information.

At least respect that.

Edited May 10, 2017 by pluto

[Little Plant]

It's not even killing the animal in itsself thats disgusting, it's the way animal agriculture is today! On instagram, they block videoes when you post how things roll at normal slaughterhouses.... if they block how they slaughter the animals, and how the dairy industry work... GO FIGURE WHY!!

THAT is what is disgusting. Even though animals cannot conceptualize, calves are still being taken from their mothers so you guys can drink THEIR mothers milk. Male chicks are still killed, because they can't be used for eggs. I am tempted to post alot of videos from slaughterhouses in here, so you guys can see for yourself. 

If you don't have any food to eat, and you catch a wild fish or any animal who cares! although maybe it's full of shit (from man made polution). But it's the fact that 95 % of all animals on earth are in CAPTIVED, and used as things to generate money. I sincerealy hope, that money, tastes and appearances are apart of your top values, if you are consuming and supporting this industry. 

I know why it is not bothering you, because you don't really know what going on, thats why! understanding is first, as LEO CLAIMS. 

And it's the fact that all of you all, have a choice. If you have ANYONE in your family that have died from heart issues and cancer, it's most defintiely their eating habits. NOT GENETICS! IF YOU are afraid of getting cancer because it's "in your genes", you are playing yourself for a fool.

[Little Plant]

Why eat anything else, than what is sustainable, cruel free and impowering for your mentality... when it's possible. why? I am genuinely interested. Can anyone please answer this

[Socrates]

@electroBeam Your ignorance is more dangerous. Taking the first article out of biased and sellout websites like authority nutrition and putting it here as a proof, is dangerous. If you were into it for the truth you wouldn't do that but you read what you wanted to read so research done. This is your problem, you are really ignorant. You don't know jack shit about nutrition but you still form an opinion out of thin air just because it justifies your current behavor. You then find corrupted sources that prove your position correct and bingo you made a conclusion on veganism. I mean it is productive to shut your brain off with spirituality but have you forgotten how to turn it back on?

[electroBeam]

@pluto I'm not sure why you're so certain that plant based foods are the healthiest. I've also studied this topic, and the conclusions are always a mixture is the healthiest.

I posted an actual study, you posted what? An ancedote of your life? Hmm i wonder which one is more valid.

Please dont spread misleading information the reason why human were able to evolve in the first place, was because we discovered how to burn things and eat meat. There is literally no other reason.

@Socrates

lol the first post is actual research done by mayo clinic, which is a well respected organisation. What have you put forward? Angry dictatorial, nazi style comments. Which one seems more likely to be true to me?

Honestly its pretty fucken obvious that if you eat a vegan diet, that you risk not getting enough vitaminB12. Im actually a vegan myself who takes B12 supplements. But if you do only the slightest bit of research, you'll realize that having a mixed diet is the best. 80% plant based, 20% animal (particularly fish) based

Edited May 10, 2017 by electroBeam

[Socrates]

@electroBeam Your intellectual inconsistency is insane. Of course you need b12 supplementation as a vegan. The problem is you link "studies" that can be literally be refuted with a google search. How can you be vegan and dare to site those kind of "studies"? Also what kind of vegan would "refute" on veganism with "studies"?  You dont need any animal products for ideal health, this is the point here.

 

[Socrates]

57 minutes ago, Dead_Mouse said:

So much anger here

Do you read emotions too?

58 minutes ago, Dead_Mouse said:

Which sounds more natural for humans?

Natural is not an argument.

59 minutes ago, Dead_Mouse said:

relies on technology to maintain their lifestyle

The person that eats mainly seeds, vegetables and fruits needs technology and not the person that eats the end results of factory farming. 

1 hour ago, Dead_Mouse said:

had problems with iron and B12

google search iron sources, b12 supplement (cyanocobalamin) 

[Guest Annetta]

I was just at the doc for vit. b12 deficiency.  Their first questions: Are you vegetarian?  Are you vegan?

"Nope, nope."

I eat meat.  I need it to remain healthy.  I am poor white trash and I shop at the foodbank.  There is simply not enough of a selection to be a vegetarian.  And even then, meat consumed is very minimal.  Usually chicken breast added to veggies and rice that I'll make, and then freeze for the week.  Mostly what I consume are eggs from the family's pet chickens and ducks.  I will post pictures to show what their environment is like tomorrow and how orange the yolks are, which is indication of health.  I don't drink milk though, milk is nasty to me.  Yuck.  

Why not go rescue some factory chickens, make a nice home for them and eat the eggs?  You'd be saving the birds, they could provide food for you, and it would not be a cruel source.  It makes no sense to me that it has to be all or nothing for some people on this matter.  Eggs are a source of b12.

[pluto]

What i type is not purely Anecdotal, i have worked with 100s of people and together thousands of patients around the world. Mainstream studies are controlled by the same 6 corporations and if there is no profit in the method it is silenced, removed and destroyed. I actually have first-hand life experience where i have risked my life, took a leap of faith and have seen healing occur in-front of my very eyes a long with many others in my field.

You are relying on studies and paperwork that can easily be controlled and manipulated, no different then the bible and religious texts. Get out of your comfort zones and experimenting with your own life and body and then you will find out for yourself how amazing you feel, and how healing takes place, how we thrive without having to harm or abuse anything else that's already living.

They have families and lives too and we are the only species to drink another species milk yet we are meant to be more intelligent? Do you even know that we started drinking milk at times of drought, starvation and war and became very sick thus why we adapted and figured out how to "FERMENT" which allowed us to digest and handle it better? We don't need to ferment any fruits or vegetables to digest and absorb them properly.

Most meat and its protein is only absorbed around 20% by the human body and the rest the body does not know what to do with it and one of the main causes of heart-disease in humans due to leaking into the bloodstream. This is why we need to consume such large quantities of it for the protein requirement when you could eat an avocado and absorb 95-99% of it and gram per gram even broccoli is higher in protein let alone soy and hemp seeds and 1 tsp of spirulina has more nutrient density then 100s of grams of meat. As well as animal protein in general is acidifying to our bodies which actually robs our body of nutrients.

Overtime we adapted and became used to it growing up that our bodies and especially our minds are UNAWARE and UNABLE to tell the difference until we stop for a while and either do a fast or cleanse or raw food/juice fast for a week or two then start introducing animal products into your life and you will notice how they effect you.

Just like processed foods, you don't notice because your chemical makeup is altered by all the harsh chemical buildup overtime but once you thoroughly cleanse the system and stop for a while, when you do go back you will notice the heaviness, the harshness so to speak almost instantly effect you. This is a clear indication because this does not happen on natural plant/fungi ect.. foods that grow in the wild.

 

Now for Veganism

1. Imagine that there is something you need to stay alive and that there are two methods to obtain it.

2. If you choose method 1, you will live but others will suffer and die.

3. If you choose method 2, you will live and nobody else will suffer nor die.

Do you choose method 1 or 2?

Congratulations.

You now understand Veganism.

 

Its 2017.. You all should be able to intelligently critical think by now, especially at times like this just look at the world and whats happening..

With chemically altered and nutritionally deficient bodies the body and brain cannot function at its optimal levels to access this optimal intelligence.

Plants have been proven to be absorbed, digested and more bio-available at a much higher rate then animal products. I wonder why?

I am done replying, its your choice and i hope you be wise and choose well for the planet, for the evolution of consciousness because we need it.

NOW MORE THAN EVER!

Peace

Edited May 11, 2017 by pluto

[Scholar]

7 hours ago, pluto said:

What i type is not purely Anecdotal, i have worked with 100s of people and together thousands of patients around the world. Mainstream studies are controlled by the same 6 corporations and if there is no profit in the method it is silenced, removed and destroyed. I actually have first-hand life experience where i have risked my life, took a leap of faith and have seen healing occur in-front of my very eyes a long with many others in my field.

You are relying on studies and paperwork that can easily be controlled and manipulated, no different then the bible and religious texts. Get out of your comfort zones and experimenting with your own life and body and then you will find out for yourself how amazing you feel, and how healing takes place, how we thrive without having to harm or abuse anything else that's already living.

They have families and lives too and we are the only species to drink another species milk yet we are meant to be more intelligent? Do you even know that we started drinking milk at times of drought, starvation and war and became very sick thus why we adapted and figured out how to "FERMENT" which allowed us to digest and handle it better? We don't need to ferment any fruits or vegetables to digest and absorb them properly.

Most meat and its protein is only absorbed around 20% by the human body and the rest the body does not know what to do with it and one of the main causes of heart-disease in humans due to leaking into the bloodstream. This is why we need to consume such large quantities of it for the protein requirement when you could eat an avocado and absorb 95-99% of it and gram per gram even broccoli is higher in protein let alone soy and hemp seeds and 1 tsp of spirulina has more nutrient density then 100s of grams of meat. As well as animal protein in general is acidifying to our bodies which actually robs our body of nutrients.

Overtime we adapted and became used to it growing up that our bodies and especially our minds are UNAWARE and UNABLE to tell the difference until we stop for a while and either do a fast or cleanse or raw food/juice fast for a week or two then start introducing animal products into your life and you will notice how they effect you.

Just like processed foods, you don't notice because your chemical makeup is altered by all the harsh chemical buildup overtime but once you thoroughly cleanse the system and stop for a while, when you do go back you will notice the heaviness, the harshness so to speak almost instantly effect you. This is a clear indication because this does not happen on natural plant/fungi ect.. foods that grow in the wild.

 

Now for Veganism

1. Imagine that there is something you need to stay alive and that there are two methods to obtain it.

2. If you choose method 1, you will live but others will suffer and die.

3. If you choose method 2, you will live and nobody else will suffer nor die.

Do you choose method 1 or 2?

Congratulations.

You now understand Veganism.

 

Its 2017.. You all should be able to intelligently critical think by now, especially at times like this just look at the world and whats happening..

With chemically altered and nutritionally deficient bodies the body and brain cannot function at its optimal levels to access this optimal intelligence.

Plants have been proven to be absorbed, digested and more bio-available at a much higher rate then animal products. I wonder why?

I am done replying, its your choice and i hope you be wise and choose well for the planet, for the evolution of consciousness because we need it.

NOW MORE THAN EVER!

Peace

You cannot force consciousness like that, it rarely works.

If someone does not care about other beings suffering, there is nothing you can do about it. You can tell them it's wrong, or unethical, but it doesn't matter. Wrong and unethical are just words, all that matters is how one feels about something, atleast for most human beings, because we are inherentely driven by emotions.

Having consciousness of the suffering of other beings and just having knowledge is a vast difference.

People need to decide to become more conscious of it themselves. Everyone can look up videos of how these animals are treated in mass production. Some might feel enough empathy to stop eating meat, others will not. Maybe visit the animals and see for yourself. Most people will not do that because they do not want to be confronted with the consquences of their actions. They themselves are suffering, which of course is the very reason for all of this. Morality is a strange thing, because we as humans design our enviroment specificly so we do not have to take moral decisions. I am farely certain that the emotional morality of most human beings on this planet would not allow mass production of animals, but we are so good at avoiding the entire thing that the moral decision is not taken. If every human being was to expirience all the suffering they have caused in this world, the thousands of animals that were sacrificed for them, I would assume that they would be unable to ever be happy again. It is too great of a burden for the human mind, which is why it must be avoided. This is the very reason why the Holocaust worked. Even those who knew about it, were consciously avoiding it. It's a way for the ego to protect itself. It's really the same mechanics that allow most people to continue eating meat.

Of course, this is the very reason why morality is such an inefficient tool. True consciousness is what is required for sustainable change. If you truly love someone, you will not avoid their suffering, you will do anything to help them. You will not care about morality, you will only care about what you love. When you love someone, you feel it. It's not a sentence in your mind. And you don't help someone you love because you pity them, you help them because you actually want them to be happy.

People love their dogs, so they protect their rights. There is no need for a moral argument when it comes to dogs. People protect them because they feel like it. You need to change the feelings, not the opinions, if you want someone to actually care.

 

Edited May 11, 2017 by Scholar

[Socrates]

12 hours ago, Dead_Mouse said:

the type of anger that arises when someone's beliefs have been challenged.

The only one i see that his beliefs have been challenged is you and you aint doing that well.

12 hours ago, Dead_Mouse said:

if something is natural or not is absolutely a relevant argument.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Killing is natural should i kill? Go study logical fallacies, you clearly lack knowledge on the subject.

12 hours ago, Dead_Mouse said:

1000 years ago vegans didn't exist because there was no tree where one could go pick their vitamin supplements for the day.

You still talk out of thin air without any knowledge on the subject. The only supplementation vegans need is b12 which is located in bacteria on the soil. So 1000 years ago you would get it just by default when eating seeds, fruits and vegetables from the ground.

12 hours ago, Dead_Mouse said:

Humans did not evolve to eat a strictly plant-based diet

The age expectancy is reducing at the times we live because of all the high cholesterol foods so yeah you are wrong in this one too. Humans didn't evole to eat a plant-based diet, humans were designed to eat a plant based diet. You still fail to understand that the only reason you consider animal products as food is because you have been indoctrinated into that behavor. You don't need them, they are not healthy, the only reason you consume them is because they are marketed perfectly and they are also really tasty.

[WaveInTheOcean]

22 hours ago, Dead_Mouse said:

So much anger here. This is what happens when something that should be innocuous turns into dogma. If I have time I may respond later with the science behind amino acids and brain function, proteins, and vitamin absorbtion in food vs. vitamins.

In the meantime consider this: for a vegan to try and remain reasonably healthy they have to do rubberman contortions with their diets; a hodgepodge and sometimes exotic selection of foods, powders, soys, fortified drinks and multivitamins--whereas to get the same effect the non-vegan merely has to eat a hard boiled egg and 4 ounces of salmon. Which sounds more natural for humans? The vegan also relies on technology to maintain their lifestyle; if there were ever an event that caused soy products and powders, multivitamins and exotic veggies that don't grow in their particular climate to not be available, they'd be in serious trouble.

And this is only anecdotal, but every vegan GF I've had always had problems with iron and B12 deficiencies despite the supplements they took that were supposed to prevent that.

-  "technology to maintain their lifestyle"

Humans = technology. Don't tell me there is no technology used in meat production, lol.

Technology is fine. Natural? The B12 vitamin molecule you can get from a supplement is the exact same B12-vitamin molecule you can get from eating meat. and so on and so on.

"And this is only anecdotal, but every vegan GF I've had always had problems with iron and B12 deficiencies despite the supplements they took that were supposed to prevent that."

It is very rare to have a B12 deficiency, even if you don't eat meat and don't take supplements. The major reason for this is that a little amount of B12 vitamin is absorbed in the intestines from gut bacteria that produce it (however it isn't much, as most of these bacteria are in the large intestine where almost no absorption occur).

If your girl took a B12 supplement daily there is simply no possible way she could get a B12 deficiency. So either you're lying or you just got absolutely zero clue of what you're talking about.

[WaveInTheOcean]

1 hour ago, Dead_Mouse said:

Hey now, am I being trolled? This is getting ridiculous.

Killing is indeed natural, so yes, the creatures for whom it is natural for should indeed kill. This includes lions, wolves, hawks, bears, and a countless number of other creatures who are vital to the ecosystem.

Someone above said something about people should be vegans if they don't want to kill. This is a common vegan argument, and it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Every plant you eat has died so you can eat it. Every fruit or nut from a tree you eat has caused the death of a countless number of insects, small animals and birds, and even bacteria--and caused suffering for a countless number of other creatures who would have depended, one way or another, on that food if you had not eaten it.

To this we get the inevitable knee-jerk justification that can be summed up something like "well, it's the lesser of two evils!"

Only this raises a moral quandary: who gets to make the hierarchy of "evil"? Who decides if a bee's life is worth more than, say, a pigeon? What criteria are used to determine if all the insects and a few rodents that died in the process of getting that bok choy plant to your plate is "less evil" instead of a chicken egg where no creatures died because you walked out back into the hen house? Veganism isn't a morally OR ethically defensible lifestyle choice, and the attempts of its advocates to do so borderline the ridiculous--with plenty of cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy liberally peppered onto their plates.

Well. Obviously a pig has a much larger 'capacity to suffer' than a fish or a bee.

Just as a human has a much larger capacity to suffer than a pig.

Animals aren't humans. 

And you're right, no one decide, but you. If you got no problem buying pork and beef on a weekly basis, supporting an industry that is one of the largets contributors to global warming (beef production), supporting an industry that treats big mammals like pigs and cows like products/slaves, i.e. they are only born in order to get slaughtered, then continue doing what you do.

I'm not vegan by the way, I take fish oil supplements, I eat organic eggs from time to time, and I can eat fish and products with (cow)milk in them if I'm out. However I never eat meat from mammals (or chickens), mostly because I find it disgusting to eat meat I know come from large animals, when I can do just fine without.

[Guest Annetta]

"As he redundantly repeated his emotionally charged nutritional opinions at me, I was instantly convinced to become a meat eater."
 

 

Ducks are all rescues and half of the chickens are rescues from factory farms.
They are all free range.  The chickens stay in their enclosure when it is raining, though because they are not water proof.
Ducks sleep in the rabbit hutch at night, but are always allowed to roam as soon as it is light out and have an enclosure to escape to if the rain gets too bad.
They get bugs, proper grain, carrots, spinach, egg shells, oyster shell, grit, have dusting areas, two pools, a stream, the pools and water are emptied out daily.  They get apple cider vinegar for gut health, have a heating lamp in the winter and roam on 3/4 fenced acre of land with four bird friendly dogs that watch over them.
The yolks are very orange - an indication of health.  They live a very natural life, the ducks are 7 years old and still lay eggs, chickens range from 8-2 years of age, old birds are not culled.
These eggs are 100 percent cruelty-free, and make up about 2/3 of the animal based protein that I eat.

They're treated very well!
Adopting and raising backyard chickens - HSUS
Forum for raising chickens  

Just posing some alternative viewpoints, mostly for myself, for practice on limiting beliefs, ect.  There are farm sanctuaries that need people to adopt chickens.  They are not adopted very often.

The farm industry needs to change, this is true, but imposing such strict dietary limits on yourselves when there are cruelty free options out there makes no sense.  Adopting factory chickens, if you live in an area that accepts them, you can prevent cruelty and add another healthy option to your diet on top of saving animals from this industry.  Their poop is great for gardening, the hay can be used for mulch, if you don't grow vegetables, they will keep bugs out of the garden.

Good conditions, these animals live a long time.

I don't know why the video is sideways like this, it wasn't that way when the vid was taken.  Soory.  I'll check it next time I do a video, but it was completely upright when I took the vid.  Idk.  Just turn your laptops sideways or something... I'm too tired to redo the video.

Anyways, the point I am trying to make is that there are more options than just veganism, and some of those options can in turn reduce suffering to animals.  We use their eggs for food, but they are respected as living creatures and pets.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Annetta

[WaveInTheOcean]

1 hour ago, Dead_Mouse said:

All humans are animals. Come on folks, do I really need to point this stuff out? This is grade-school level information here.

And how do you know how much another creature suffers to be able to make such a comparison? To suggest that you, and you alone, know that the "capacity" of one animal to suffer is more or less than another is not only absurd, it's the height of arrogance, and again, this is the sort of thing we see from people who have turned their lifestyle choice into a dogma.

The next time you feel like patting yourself on the back because you opted for bok choy instead of a chicken egg, consider this: grass, when cut, lets out a noise below a frequency our ears can pick up that, scientists have said, can be described as a cry of pain; and you know the smell of freshly cut grass? That is caused by a chemical the grass releases that is actually a distress call. A cry for help. The next time you chow down on a salad, imagine the tiny little screams occuring as you chew these little guys up. Nom nom.

When I say animals aren't humans, I'm simply implying that animals don't conceptualize about their existence/the world/surroundings nearly as much as human does. But I see that you didn't get that.

Of course humans are animals, but animals aren't humans;)

"And how do you know how much another creature suffers to be able to make such a comparison? To suggest that you, and you alone, know that the "capacity" of one animal to suffer is more or less than another is not only absurd, it's the height of arrogance, and again, this is the sort of thing we see from people who have turned their lifestyle choice into a dogma."

If we take the logic(/beliefs/assumptions about reality) you apply here to its extreme, we could also ask: "How can we know that that a stone can't feel pain?"

All you really know, Dead_Mouse, is your own subject experience. You know what pain is -- to you -- what stress is -- to you -- what sorrow is -- to you -- what anxiety is to you -- and you know how you suffer to those things. For example you probably scream if someone starts chopping your body parts off with an axe (pain).
And you will probably act in certain ways if you get locked up in a small room for long periods of time (stress). And you will probably cry if a person you love really much gets taken away from you or die (sorrow). And you will probably be acting nervously if you sense that someone in proximity to you is trying to kill you (anxiety). And so on and so on.

Now. What happens if you cut the grass in your own subjective experience, i.e. your perception of the grass? Not much besides the physical change of the length of it, right? And the smell.

What happens if you pick up a carrot from the earth?

And what happens if you take a pair of scissors and cut off the balls of a new-born male pig? Does anything 'special' then happen in your own subjective perception of the pig? Does anything change about the pig except it now has no balls? Does it make some sounds? Does it move physically in certain ways? If it does: i.e. make some sounds and move in certain ways, how do you interpret these things?

I for one, maybe it's just me, interpret the sound of screaming pig getting its balls cut off as a sign of the pig being in deep pain.

I for one, interpret the howling a female cow makes when its few-days-old-offspring gets taken away from her as sorrow in a milk-production-farm.

Why do I do that? Perhaps because I can relate to these things. I got balls too, and I would scream if they got cut off. If my mother died I would be sad for quite some time. Etc.

"grass, when cut, lets out a noise below a frequency our ears can pick up that, scientists have said, can be described as a cry of pain"

It's not soundwaves (noise); you got no clue what you're talking about again. What some studies have found is that some plants when damaged can release certain chemical compunds (which might for example be perceived by a human as the "smell of cut grass") that can trigger a biological response in nearby other plants (of the same species). This reponse might for example include the plants to upregulate certain insecticidal compunds that can act as a defense against plant eating insects. Why did some plants evolve such mechanisms? Because it was beneficial for the survival for those plants. It's a survival mechanism. Quite obviously plant's dont have a self that can suffer. Saying that the release of these chemical compunds when a plant dies is a "Cry of pain" or a "distress call" is just human projections.

 
 

Now it's true, that even me interpreting the sound a male pig makes when it gets castrated as pain/suffering, that's also a human projectin, or more specifically: MY projection.

However, I actually make that projection without thinking. It happens out of my control. It's not like when I watch a baby pig gets castrated that I have to think deeply about it "ah, that's pain" .. no, when it happens, I immediately feel a sense of pain within myself by just seeing it. It's called empathy and humans are born with it. Mirror-imaging neruons and so on, you know?  When I step on grass I don't feel any pain. To go as far to say that the smell of cut grass is "a cry of pain" is thinking, not feeling, and it's a big conceptualized projection.

 

When Alan Watts was asked why he was a vegetarian, he said:
 

 

So ...

"That is caused by a chemical the grass releases that is actually a distress call"

No. It's not a distress call. It's a survival mechanism. There is no self anywhere to make a distress call Only if you make a gaint conceptualization in your mind.

When a person screams for help when if he's/she's about to get killed (for some reason), and if you are nearby and hear the scream, then there is a self screaming for help...YOU; the only real self. It's a direct experience of feeling that someone needs help. It requires no thinking or further conceptualization. It happens of it self ... emotionally. We don't control our emotions/feelings. After all, feelings are what's divine in this existence.

Thinking without feeling is meaningless and absurd. I.e. thinking that the grass feels pain without feeling that it does is utterly nonsense, complete nonsense.
And I don't feel grass is capable of feeling pain.
However I most certainly do feel that pigs and cows are capable of feeling pain, because -- for instance -- I feel the pain when I witness a baby pig getting castrated. 

"Friedrich Nietzsche — 'Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings -- always darker, emptier and simpler.'"

Edited May 12, 2017 by WaveInTheOcean

[Guest Annetta]

@Dead_Mouse All anyone needs is a fenced yard and the right supplies to have healthy chickens.  They should be free range in the yard whenever possible because just an enclosure with a run is not enough, despite what a lot of people might say.
The omelettes are really really good.



Cities that allow urban hens.
Check with local humane societies and farm sanctuaries to rescue these birds!

[Guest Annetta]

@Dead_Mouse Could do a better job of it, I hate cooking.  

[Socrates]

@Dead_Mouse You still fail to take responsibility though. You don't need animal products to survive but you still pay others to slaughter and dismember animals for your taste pleasure.When you get criticized about it you bring up grass, cool story bro. Because of grass anecdotal blablabla, i can kill cows and pigs and baby chickens. Yeah you convinced me. There is no doubt you deliberately play stupid here, you know there is no reason to kill animals for food but you still fail to admit it to yourself. In case you didn't get it Alan meant that the cow suffers and the carrot doesn't. Why dont you tell me why it is justifiable to kill animals. How is it justifiable? 

Edited May 12, 2017 by Socrates

[The]

18 hours ago, Hungry_Duck said:

All this talk of omelettes made me hungry for one. With a fat mouse tucked inside. Nom Nom.

That quacks me up.. 

Edited May 13, 2017 by The

[nexusoflife]

I have been vegan for three years and raw vegan for two years and I can honestly say that doing so has been the second best decision of my life next to meditating every day. The documentaries that I watched which helped me to transition were, Forks over Knives (for the health aspect), Earthlings (for the ethical aspect) and Cowspiracy ( for the ecological aspect). There is also a great website called https://nutritionfacts.org/ which cites thousands of studies on plant based nutrition and the innumerable benefits that it has for human physiology. 

Here is the trailer for Forks over Knives. 

 

There are also ethical end ecological benefits to consider as well. Over 56 billion animals are killed every year in the animal agriculture industries.

This is the full documentary of Earthlings. Eating animal products(meat, dairy, eggs) supports this 

 

Additionally animal agriculture is the leading cause of deforestation, species extinction and greenhouse gas emissions via methane. Overall animal agriculture is a massive threat to the ecological integrity of the biosphere. By eating a plant based diet you are not contributing to any of that.

Here is an excerpt from the documentary of Cowspiracy detailing the destructive impact that animal agriculture has on the ecology of our planet

 A word of advice to anyone that reads this. In truth what you eat does not dictate your ability to realize enlightenment or self actualize. However it would be logically consistent to refrain from animal products because of the massive amount of suffering that animal agriculture inflicts on life on our planet. Best of luck to everyone on their journey. A great thing to include with enlightenment is ecological synergism with the life that we share this planet with. Hope that this helps.