Are You Vegan?

[onilsson]

I want to bring this question together with a variety of different topics covered in self-actualization, refering to videos from Leo (I am assuming you seen them all haha ) - so if you have seen them you know the concepts and what I have written in between the lines -- and I don't need to make this longer than I already will. 
And, yes, of course I want to shine some light to the topic - and yes, I want to promote veganism. 
I am not here to give you the detailed information, that I will let you verify for yourself. The main-point is of course that pain and death of innocent beings and environments is a direct consequnce of eating animal products.
I am not really asking for help, not really into starting a debate either, but do you having something to share - please do!  
I primarily I want to call all those out who see themselves to be walking on the path of self-actualizing and maybe have forgot this little corner of the map. Each time you grab a bite, it has consequences.
"Many droplets will in the end make a river" as we say in Sweden. 

Spiral dynamics: 
The ego realizes it's own backfiring mechanisms. At a higher stage - green or green+ I don't see how one could not be vegan. At these stages one would have enough awareness and big picture thinking to realize where there food is coming from. It's not magically appearing from the 5th space-dimension. It's about knowing meat comes from somewhere, and that consuming it will only perpetual the systematic flow of suffering. Knowing that the short-term benefit of the taste is heavly out-weighted by the long-term costs. One would not want to hurt themselves (read up on the topic if unaware) or others or the eco-system through one owns' actions.

Addictions:
Eating animal products can be an addiction, it is for most, it was for me. It's an indoctrinated habit taught to us without our consent. Suddenly we wake up to the fact we have been eating animals products every single meal for 10-15-20-25 years - never questioned it. It's second-nature. Stopping it would require change, withdraw symptoms, emotional labour. I was very neurotic in my mental activity during the transition phase. Please don't let yourself or the rest of us suffer because you are not the master of your own house.

Ego:
It's the you that wants that greasy slice of cheese. You want it for you. You want it, you want it, you want. Don't give me a rational bullshit philosophical answer. You want it because it just tastes so fuckin good. You are hooked to grease and fat, and you love it. You are very narcissistic in the way you let your desires, cravings and habits be so god damn preferential and bias towards yourself. The eco-systems and the animals have to pay a fatal price for your greed.

Consciousness:
Are you using high-level consciousness when you are going through your day? Do you take responsibility for your own actions? Be fully aware. Leos video about awareness as a cure for destructive behaviour can be thoroughly applied here I think. Start to study the subject a bit. Maybe you watch Cowspiracy or Earthlings and then try to FULLY aware eat a burger. Maybe you start to reflect on the fact that just as you, no other living being on the face of this planet wants to be subjected to cruelty and death - so maybe you from a point of empathy and consciousness let your actions reflect this.

I think the point has been made and will chose to stop here.

I am not a ranter about this in my real life, but if any community should be able to understand this - it should be you guys.

Thanks you for your time and consideration
with love,
Olof

Edited October 3, 2016 by onilsson

[onilsson]

17 hours ago, Outer said:

I think there's a lot of high awareness folks out there who do consume animal products.

I think the key difference, or what's in their mind is they see a burger: they don't see an animal. Neither will anyone ever. It's always going to be a burger.

It's the concept of linking those two together, and the consequences of those actions on the planet, animals, suffering etc.

You're right. It does indeed require some thought process and conceptualization to link the product to the both the animal and the suffering. Some concepts and links are important. Actions have real manifestations and consequences even though they are not shown in Your direct experience.  Eating a vegan burger or a meat burger will not show any significant difference in your all-mighty own direct experience, but remember it may still produce consequences for other people, animals or environments direct experience. Riight.

So if we are talking about a truly enlightened person who is completly lucid and immersed in the here and now  -  having no thought or label for reality - and never reflected or been shown this truth (you can't be aware of what you don't know) before his or her big breakthrough - then yes it is very understandable that this person will just see, feel, smell and be with the texture, taste of the product. 
I do understand causality and why it's perfectly explainable why people act or think, or in this rare exception don't think as they do. But I still want to get up in their face like
"you may have realized the absolute truth and are now a manifestation of absolute infinity and consciousness yourself, but hey stop eating cheese mothafuckaah"

But most of us, I am guessing, are still quite cognitive people.
So it would be really nice if we could get this under our belt before all of us go enlightened haha.
What I am doing is throwing in another concept for you to be aware of. Making life maybe even more challenging. One more sacriface, if you chose to see it that way, I encourage you to make. Be true to your compassion and benevolence. Come on, do it - you guys are tough (and amazing! <3 )(and eternally infinite right? ) 

 

But serisouly guys - read up on the subject a little - it's not ok to shrug this away or continue with blinders on. 

And just a little carrot for those who need that egoic motivation - there is a clear positive boost in your mood, energy and mental clearity on a vegan diet - I have my scientific guesses as to why, but I will leave them out due to lack of expertise.

now have a great day!

Edited October 4, 2016 by onilsson

[Ozzy]

I lift weights, so if I were to go vegan and wanted to get enough protein I'd need to eat lentils and beans every day (considering availability of other choices where I live). But the ethical points you're raising are valid, I guess I don't care enough.

[key]

I was vegetarian for 4 months then vegan for another 6, then I stopped, and went back to eating animal products as if it were nothing.

why? 

The last months of my vegan diet I slowly realised I was adding onto my identity as a "spiritual" person, thoughts appeared that it was better for me, I didn't support animal slaughter, I thought the transition of negative energy would effect my health, my ethics came into play, even social culture, morals, cause and effect, the future of this planet, ect.. were all my reasons 

But when I looked closely at each of my reasons, my emotional state, and what veganisim is as an idea, I realised quite simply they were grounded in nothing, and I was adding more layers to my identity then necessary, so I started acting on my more natural desires, you could say, trying to accept them while at the same time see them more clearly.

In the end it was the right step for me in my journey. 

Now this isn't to disagree with you or turn anyone away from such a lifestyle choice, I implore anyone to question their own decisions for themselves, but thought I'd throw in my 2 cents 

Edited October 6, 2016 by key

[Neill]

Another vegan over here! Thank you on behalf of all our animal friends :). It can be disconcerting at times to be on a forum that claims to be such high consciousness and yet so many continue to ignore something so basic- even Leo.

[Richard Alpert]

Im not a vegan, i eat small amount of fish about 3-4 on a week, average. Chicken once a week maybe,

I dont buy animal products to my home, expect fish sometimes.

But if i go out to socialicing or something i dont care that much what i eat.

If i were great cook, i feel being vegan would be easier. Plus i feel being 100% vegan is just too much effort for me at the moment.

I am somewhat perfectionist and control freak and i am not sure trying to control my food intake 100% would even be mentally healthy. I´ll do my best with where i am at this moment.

 

[Esoteric]

Oh look, a vegan pushing their belief on people. How rare. You write that you can't see how people at higher stages eat animals, but a lot do, so yeah, that's reality for you.

Life eats life.

[Orange]

Guys what do you think about Gary Your of sky?  

 

[Truth Seekah]

 

Edited May 7, 2017 by Ganesh Sundaram

[Socrates]

@Esoteric Sounds like a good excuse to not take responsibility for your actions. But still you are unethical either you take responsibility or not. They kill so that doesn't make the killing ethical it just makes them unethical. 

[pluto]

On 10/6/2016 at 6:20 AM, Ozzy said:

I lift weights, so if I were to go vegan and wanted to get enough protein I'd need to eat lentils and beans every day (considering availability of other choices where I live). But the ethical points you're raising are valid, I guess I don't care enough.

Higher Protein content for optimal muscle growth is more of a myth, i still gain with 50-70grams a day on average. Its more about nutrient density and calories then it is about protein and you could always get a plant-based protein shake if you want more amino acids.

 

@ Original post

Although i don't consider myself as a vegan but merely health-conscious, i try to eat as much plant-based whole foods as possible. I personally consume mostly vegan/vegetarian day to day although on birthdays or special occasions i don't mind some fish or seafood, the occasional fermented dairy like yoghurt or feta cheese on salads or ghee has never caused any problems for me so once in a while i don't mind as well as eggs every now and then maybe once a month or less.

Raw honey or medicinal manuka honey on the other hand is one thing i probably could never stop completely, it makes me feel amazing and does wonders for my health.

When i am feeling better = I become a better person to others.

Peace

Edited May 9, 2017 by pluto

[Loreena]

I only eat carrots. I somehow survived up until now.

[Leo Gura]

What's interesting about Gary Yourofsky's reasoning in that video is that it's false. Animals don't conceptualize. So they do NOT see humans as devils or evil. That's his projection onto animals. Such notions do not exist at all for animal minds.

Of course that doesn't mean humans are behaving properly. But the problem with his approach is that it then breeds dogma and crusading against evil, which is the classic trap of trying to fight evil with evil, which doesn't work. It creates its own problems. Loving the evil to death is the better option.

If a position one holds makes one angry, then that right there is all the proof one needs that it's spiritually backwards.

Wishing evil things to happen to evil people is part of the deeper problem. So he undermines his own message.

But good for him that he's raising awareness around the issue. Sometimes you gotta use low consciousness to change even lower consciousness. And that's all reality is doing in the end, bootstrapping higher levels of consciousness. It's often an ugly process.

[Markus]

On 10/9/2016 at 6:17 PM, Orange said:

Guys what do you think about Gary Your of sky?  

 

I've seen some of his stuff. Self-proclaimed misanthrope who loves animals. That's the key issue here for me. He sees animals as innocent and humans as inherently evil, because unlike animals they have free will and understand the concept of morality. But humans don't have free will. I think it's safe to say he's not an emotionally healthy person. I imagine it's a pattern among vegans: anti-social people with a need to feel morally superior. That's not all vegans but a subsection of them.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Markus

[Little Plant]

@Neill couldn't agree more. It puzzles me sometimes, especially seeing Leo eating eggs in his last video. Such a violent industry to support, and eggs have zero fiber, is 70 % fat, there are thousands of reports stating it increases your risk of cancer, heart disease and diabtetes. Eating eggs and diary, is just not clean eating. Like eating meat isn't.. 

Every meat and diary eater: The only reason all of yall eat it, is beacuse it has been marketed to you your whole life. Like cheese, it's only a marketingscam, beacuse there was too many leftovers of milk at some point. 

It's marketed for you to buy, and its not natural!!! It keeps you sick and unhealthy, and you have family and friends which die of dieases direclty linked to this. Watch what the health, forks over knives, read the china study (over 700.000 people in s study, and the conclusion was, that a wholefood plantbased diet is the best and cleanest most nutrtitunal diet you could eat, ever, some pleaces in China there is NO SIGN OF CANCER; HEART DISEASES AT ALL... how come huh?) Plantbased organic food actually REVERSES CANCER. Litteraly reverses cancer in two weeks. If any of you are sick (anything from stomacheissues, chronic fatigue, headaches (and so on and so on), please open your mind to the nasty shit you are eating. Take responsibility. When you are consuming meat, you are directly eating high blolod pressure, stress and adreneline.. You think slaughterhouses are blissfull? You are eating grief, fear, rage, sufffering, horror and murder. Even though the animals don't know, WE KNOW. I really would love to here from someone, WHO HAVE seen whats going on on multiple slaughterhouses and still eats meet and diary. Or someone who eats meat and is completely diseasefree. 

Vegan just means consuming non-curelty products, animals just a part of that.. Why is this not natural to any of you, I am interested!... And for the fish, I bet it's not killing you to eat wild fresh fish, but all the fish you buy in the supermarket are filled with mercury and what not. 

I am really interested in hearing, if poeple here are so focused on selfactualization, finding cultural and social traps, how come ones eating habits or the threath of changing them is something so horrible? Like " I can eat meat if a iwant to, don't tell me not to!"can anyone admit there possibly is a trap? 

Also, it keeps your mind so fucking lazy to consume these types of products.. And you think you are getting protein? Human breast milk contains the least protein of any breastmilk from animals on the planet...., we don't need all of this protein EVER!!! It's marketed for you to buy these products.. you are addicted to the fat, and your taste buds are comepltey fucked up?.. I don't think I have ever met anyone having protein defiency, ever!! AND THINKING that you are getting protein from animals who themselves are vegan... (!?) is really not that smart .... You are playing yourself soo fucking much by doing this, oh man! 

So many big athletes thrive on a vegan diet, you can never become as strong eating dead animals than on SUPERVEGETABLES AND FRUITS.. ever! Look it up, look up super athelets who eat 100 plantbasedand you will be so surprised. 

You say you love animals, and you consume animal products at the same time, that is hyprocrosity, and defintily something your higher self knows.. 

Animals and the diary insutry is something you need to want to open your eyes to, it's so painful and disgusting once you do, and even more when you figure out how much of this shit you used to build up your new cells with. It's consiousness directed towards your body, living long and strong while you are "here!". You litteraly are what you eat! Human babies drink breastmilk when to grow, like a calf drinks its mothers milk..... but then it eats grass like humans eat plants, when they are done.. now how come I should be drinking that calf's mothers breast milK??? it's so unnatural? 

Chickens, cows and pigs in factory farms spend their whole lives in filthy, cramped condiiotns only to die a porolonged painfull death. To eat that is to eat poison . Before I had the balld to watch videos of how things roll at slaughterhouses, I was just as blind. They are exploited as things, when they are not, only beacuse of BUSINESS and MONEY. AND it keeps the people of the world, lazy, fat, spending money on big pharma, spending money on hospitals, when they could get completely healthy by changing their diet and lifestyle 180. But it's in the business interest that we keep selling animals to people... and fast, come on come faster, .. Most of the cows you eat have been consuming corn, so what nutrions are you actually getting? Just cuirous. 

Please ask yourself, why don't I have compasssion for myself and the world,when it comes to this, why is there so much cultural and social resistance? 

 

[The White Belt]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Animals don't conceptualize

Isn't that your own projection onto animals? How do you know that animals don't conceptualize? 

[Socrates]

@Leo Gura Thanks for your lip service. Again you mamble with this stuff to dodge every responsibility. You know exactly what he is advocating but instead prefer to see the projections and not focus on the good message that can create a better world for you and everyone around you (including sentient beings). 

Edited May 8, 2017 by Socrates

[Michael569]

Promoting Veganism & Vegetarianism can be tricky. What i found to be the easiest is to motivate by your actions not by giving arguments that heat the conversation. 

Instead let others see the results in real life. Let them see that you have so much energy, that you lost weight and built a quality muscle, not a water filled crap.

I carry my green goo smoothies around sometimes at work and people inquire and ask about it. Some even ask to try it. They are surprised to see that it is quite nice. Generally we want to try things but once our egos are threatened we will defend with out lives the lifestyle we lead...

Be an example and let your personality and enthusiasm be the motivator. 

[Socrates]

@Michael569 No dude it doesn't work like that. The cognitive dissonance takes the steering wheel of the conversation and then it is a mess. They bring up spirituality and all kinds of woo-woo and theoretical stuff that don't have anything to do with the real world. You need to bring up real arguments and shift the conversation back to reality where your actions actually have some meaning in order to nail this point down. But when you have so many preconceived notions about reality, ethics, morals, good and bad you can't do that.

[Light Lover]

Socrates is on a rampage!