Being triggered by vegans

[Nahm]

7 hours ago, StarStruck said:

I fully get the economic and environmental aspect, although veganism can be more expensive and hazardous for the environment. Especially if you look at the volumes of food they are consuming to get their calories. The vitamin pills they are binging on. The doctor's appointments and constant blood tests. It is not cheap, not is it good for the environment if you take a peak at the bus loads of vegetables and fruits they are consuming.

Try the loophole shake. It’s the loophole to everything you mentioned. 

Diet change is easier through the orange lens, than the green lens. 

[peanutspathtotruth]

@StarStruck

I understand your point that some people with a specific lifestyle might be (or just seem) deluded and trigger you for playing the hero. 

But honestly, most arguments here make no sense whatsoever because you start by thinking all vegans and all meat eaters were the same...!? There is no black and white here, the diversity is as present as in any other choice of preference. Any vegan will have a different system of thinking and line of internal reasoning why they choose to live that way. 

I'm a vegan and am surrounded by vegans: some can get judgemental about others who aren't vegan, others not one bit. I don't care at all what someone else eats. If they are close to me, I care much more about their consciousness and sense of responsibility when it comes to consumption. 

I'd "prefer" a meat eater who buys organic from nearby farms with extremely high standards over a vegan who plays the morality police and buys cheap processed foods from fucked up companies any time. 

[Emerald]

9 hours ago, StarStruck said:

I'm always heavily triggered by vegans and I always have the tendency to emotionally lash out, saying something sarcastic or snappy.

I fully get the economic and environmental aspect, although veganism can be more expensive and hazardous for the environment. Especially if you look at the volumes of food they are consuming to get their calories. The vitamin pills they are binging on. The doctor's appointments and constant blood tests. It is not cheap, not is it good for the environment if you take a peak at the bus loads of vegetables and fruits they are consuming.

The economic and environmental aspect can be debated and I don't have a strong opinion on this matter. It is just the judgmental and pretentious personality of these people that I can't stand. They feel better than everybody and lie to themselves too that they have a healthy diet although noteworthy vegan celebrities are dropping left and right, going back to a normal diet.

Am I projecting my own issues on vegans or are these people really that annoying?

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/going-vegan-isnt-actually-th/

You've just posted a lot of misinformation, so let me debunk all that first and then tell you why it's likely that Vegans trigger you.

Number one, Veganism can be done more cheaply than the omnivorous diet because most naturally Vegan foods are less expensive than meat, dairy, and eggs. For example.. oats, rice, tofu, beans, bread, potatoes, etc. are all very inexpensive foods.

Also, Vegans don't need to consume more volume. I eat about the same amount of food as a Vegan as I did when I was eating an omnivorous diet. It's easy to get the number of calories you need for the day on a Vegan diet... potatoes, tofu, beans, lentils, oats, wheat, rice, bananas, etc. are all pretty high calorie foods. And the macro and micro nutrients are also easy to get from Vegan sources.

And Veganism is less harmful for the environment because (if everyone went Vegan) we'd use significantly less farmland because 80%+ of the crops currently growing are grown to feed livestock. And cows and pigs eat far more than a human being ever could. Also the methane gas from cows raised for dairy and meat contributes to global warming. So, in the unlikely case that all the world suddenly went Vegan, it would be one of the most beneficial things we could do for the environment. 

And Vegans don't binge on vitamin pills. The only supplement you NEED as a Vegan is b12. It's the only thing you can't get in a Vegan diet that is present in an omnivorous diet. I take a multi-vitamin and b12. That's it.

Also, I've never taken a blood test as a Vegan. There is no need to unless you really want to.

And I don't eat a bus load of vegetables... nor do most Vegans. Raw vegans often do eat a ton of food. But the majority of Vegans eat a normal amount as there are many filling Vegan foods. 

Now that all that is dispelled...

There are certainly Vegans who are judgmental and pretentious. But aren't you being very judgmental towards Vegans? You seem to look down your nose at Vegans and thinking you're better than them... so that's a bit pretentious, isn't it?

But really, I think what triggers people most about Vegans is that MOST people have Vegan values. It's just that few people live by them. And I think this is probably the source of your judgments about Vegans. 

Most people hate to see animals suffer, and so there is cognitive dissonance when we continue to eat products that contribute to the suffering of animals. We don't want to give up the foods we're used to. But we also don't want to become aware of the extreme suffering on the other end of those foods.

So, when we see Vegans, they remind us of the suffering on the other end of our habits. And it becomes an uncomfortable experience that we'd rather just push away. And this produces projections onto Vegans as a whole group and a lot of effort to "debunk" the Vegan lifestyle by finding flaws in it that aren't there.

 

[RendHeaven]

@Emerald I love you lol.

You effortlessly dismantled me once like 3 years ago when I started a judgmental thread. It seriously helped me grow 

Glad to see you're still slaying~

[Opo]

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

 Most people hate to see animals suffer

I don't think most people care. 

At least I didn't when I was little. 

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

So, when we see Vegans, they remind us of the suffering on the other end of our habits. 

Most people aren't aware of the suffering because that takes some emotional intelligence. 

So for an example when a vegan tries to make them feel empathy towards the animals they can't do it so they just get frustrated and lash out on to the vegans. 

Also some people are afraid that vegans will take their meat away from them so they become defensive. 

Like when conservatives thought AOC will take away their burgers and stakes. 

[StarStruck]

@Emerald

That is my whole point. It is not mutually exclusive. Vegan diet is not always more environmentally friendly. It really depends on the person.

I'm not judgemental and pretentious about vegans. My diet is almost vegan. I only eat small amounts of good quality meat because my body needs it. Not every body is the same. Some human body's just don't run on a vegan diet. Especially if you are tall or/and have a big brain. There are enough studies to prove this.

Perhaps I will switch to artificial meat if it comes out. B12 vitamins doesn't work for me. 

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by StarStruck

[Carl-Richard]

17 hours ago, StarStruck said:

I fully get the economic and environmental aspect, although veganism can be more expensive and hazardous for the environment. Especially if you look at the volumes of food they are consuming to get their calories.

WHAT ? 

By eating primary consumers (herbivores; cows, chicken), you're actually using 10x more food (in calories) than if you were to eat the same amount of calories in primary producers (autotrophs; plants, algae). Even worse, by eating secondary consumers (carnivores; salmon, sardines), you're using 100x more food. Tertiary consumers (for example tuna) is 1000x more food.

 

17 hours ago, StarStruck said:

Am I projecting my own issues on vegans or are these people really that annoying?

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/going-vegan-isnt-actually-th/

People who are unusually annoyed by vegans are usually unaware of their own biases. You didn't actually use your rational mind to arrive at your current diet if you're eating what you're parents are eating. When vegans point this out, people tend to freak out. Yes, veganism has its flaws, the followers are often dogmatic, but if you take time to understand their arguments and if you're able to practice self-honesty regarding your own dietary habits, then maybe vegans will become a little less annoying.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[StarStruck]

5 hours ago, datamonster said:

Why did you decide to reduce your meat consumption?

I developed respect for animals and their place within nature but I don't believe one has to become vegan to integrate stage green. 

Obviously I'm not going to engage further in discussion. A lot of people are emotional in this thread and I'm kind of shocked. I expected a different discourse on actualized dot org.

I can post studies on how a vegan society would destroy the eco system on this planet but I'm not going to do that.

[Tildae00]

To respond to the OP, I would it's probably a case of others making you look bad that's causing the reaction. Perhaps it could be the vegan movement and its original strategy which was quite noisy that makes you equate veganism to some kind of stress. It is quite easy for people to feel on top of the world when they make the change, but then don't quite realize how embedded their old lifestyle was and feel like they're missing out because the reason they didn't really believe in why they made the change. But you can see the positive aspects of it is a good start. I've been vegetarian since birth up until 22 and I'm 5 years vegan from there. Never had to go to any expensive blood test because of the diet. 

Yeah I get a lot of people can make false diet claims. If you're looking for sound advice, it's always good to check out studies rather than anecdotes. If you're looking for nutritional studies related to veganism, I recommend checking out Dr. Avi's discord 'Study Archives". 

[SgtPepper]

@StarStruck I don't agree with the vegan diet either. Although I am not sure why you are triggered by other's choices though, only you can know.

There is some truth to what @Emerald said about people being triggered by vegans because vegans will make them think about their choices.

 However, you cannot discount the amount of people who have tried a vegan diet and experienced health issues. So they are valid in criticizing the vegan diet. The way social media is set up, it is very easy to believe vegan diets are optimal for human health. Unfortunately, vegans care about animals not their health; so their goal is not maximize health more so as it is to protect the animal.

Edited January 25, 2021 by SgtPepper

[Danioover9000]

@Tildae00

10 minutes ago, Tildae00 said:

To respond to the OP, I would it's probably a case of others making you look bad that's causing the reaction. Perhaps it could be the vegan movement and its original strategy which was quite noisy that makes you equate veganism to some kind of stress. It is quite easy for people to feel on top of the world when they make the change, but then don't quite realize how embedded their old lifestyle was and feel like they're missing out because the reason they didn't really believe in why they made the change. But you can see the positive aspects of it is a good start. I've been vegetarian since birth up until 22 and I'm 5 years vegan from there. Never had to go to any expensive blood test because of the diet. 

Yeah I get a lot of people can make false diet claims. If you're looking for sound advice, it's always good to check out studies rather than anecdotes. If you're looking for nutritional studies related to veganism, I recommend checking out Dr. Avi's discord 'Study Archives". 

   This is probably the case.

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, StarStruck said:

I can post studies on how a vegan society would destroy the eco system on this planet but I'm not going to do that.

[Scholar]

15 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

Unfortunately, vegans care about animals not their health; so their goal is not maximize health more so as it is to protect the animal.

Why is it that this has not been shown in any study yet? Any deficiency that was found usually was due to some sort of negligence like not taking supplements (B12 for example). And it is the goal of vegans to maximize health, it's just that they have a more unified understanding of health. You always have to consider the health of the animals and the planet as a whole, not just your own.

 

So far the science is showing that a properly planned vegan diet is more healthy than a standard diet. What kind of evidence outside of anecdotal evidence do you have that a properply planned plant based diet would be somehow detrimental for the majority of people?

Edited January 25, 2021 by Scholar

[Carl-Richard]

The reason people find vegans particularily annoying is because they actually know deep down that they have a point, which creates cognitive dissonance and all that jazz.

[StarStruck]

33 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

@StarStruck I don't agree with the vegan diet either. Although I am not sure why you are triggered by other's choices though, only you can know.

There is some truth to what @Emerald said about people being triggered by vegans because vegans will make them think about their choices.

 However, you cannot discount the amount of people who have tried a vegan diet and experienced health issues. So they are valid in criticizing the vegan diet. The way social media is set up, it is very easy to believe vegan diets are optimal for human health. Unfortunately, vegans care about animals not their health; so their goal is not maximize health more so as it is to protect the animal.

All these vegan celebrities on YouTube are secretly eating meat, and last year shit tons of vegan shills have come out and said they were dying or having heavy health issues because of their diet. Guys. Let's wake up. It is about the m-o-n-ey!!!

And these people were buying the most expensive best quality vegan foods and shit. Their whole livelihood was based on their diet and promoting their of. Even they don't make it. I'm not saying it won't work for couple of years. On the long haul a lot of people are dropping left and right because of health issues. We are only seeing people dropping who are in the spotlight of the vegan community. Just imagine all the other undocumented people nearly dropping dead because of veganism. It is an outright pandemic. 

Personally they can do whatever they like but I really do feel sad about their kids who are indoctrinated into their diet and don't have the option to have a healthy diet and brain. 80% of our energy goes to our brain. That is the difference between us and an animal. We have big brains and we need to feed it or we will end up like a vegetable. 

The bottom line is this: for a lot of people it might work but for a lot of people it doesn't. It really depends on your body and brain type. For some people it simply DOESN'T work. That last part doesn't compute with them for some reason. 

Edited January 25, 2021 by StarStruck

[Scholar]

2 minutes ago, StarStruck said:

All these vegan celebrities on YouTube are secretly eating meat, and last year shit tons of vegan shills have come out and said they were dying or having heavy health issues because of their diet. Guys. Let's wake up. It is about the m-o-n-ey!!!

And these people were buying the most expensive best quality vegan foods and shit. Their whole livelihood was based on their diet and promoting their of. Even they don't make it. I'm not saying it won't work for couple of years. On the long haul a lot of people are dropping left and right because of health issues. We are only seeing people dropping who are in the spotlight of the vegan community. Just imagine all the other undocumented people nearly dropping dead because of veganism. It is an outright pandemic. 

Personally they can do whatever they like but I really do feel sad about their kids who are indoctrinated into their diet and don't have the option to have a healthy diet and brain. 80% of our energy goes to our brain. That is the difference between us and an animal. We have big brains and we need to feed it or we will end up like a vegetable. 

So let's reiterate this. Those vegan youtubers who do everything for money and cannot be trusted, when they jump on the anti-vegan trend which generates huge clicks, they suddenly are trustworthy?

But the actual science on the matter is irrelevant I guess. Actual valid information comes from youtube videos...

 

How do you feel about the kids who are born to be slaughtered because people like to eat hamburgers?

Edited January 25, 2021 by Scholar

[Danioover9000]

@StarStruck

22 hours ago, StarStruck said:

I'm always heavily triggered by vegans and I always have the tendency to emotionally lash out, saying something sarcastic or snappy.

I fully get the economic and environmental aspect, although veganism can be more expensive and hazardous for the environment. Especially if you look at the volumes of food they are consuming to get their calories. The vitamin pills they are binging on. The doctor's appointments and constant blood tests. It is not cheap, not is it good for the environment if you take a peak at the bus loads of vegetables and fruits they are consuming.

The economic and environmental aspect can be debated and I don't have a strong opinion on this matter. It is just the judgmental and pretentious personality of these people that I can't stand. They feel better than everybody and lie to themselves too that they have a healthy diet although noteworthy vegan celebrities are dropping left and right, going back to a normal diet.

Am I projecting my own issues on vegans or are these people really that annoying?

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/going-vegan-isnt-actually-th/

   I've also been triggered by vegans as well, because of their level of emotional responses. Although I have similar to different reasons behind the hate than you.

   The volume of food consumption, vitamin supplements, doctor appointments, and medical tests including blood tests, all depend on each vegan's body health and psychology, which determines the ranges of choice. Also, it depends on if medical options are covered by government, as some governments don't cover for medical tests, manufacturing of supplement pills, and food supply can be limiting.

   With regards to the economic and environmental aspects I tend to research independently, and leave to other specialists to sort out. I agree that it may be expensive, yet it depends on the geography and bio availability to each society on earth. Some places, developing infrastructure to vegans will be more expensive, for example in Japan and the middle eastern regions, than say the USA or North America, due to their greater ranges of vegetables. Foreign interests and the trade markets do play a role in imports, exports and land development for veggies.

   Here is why I currently don't like vegans. I grow my own garden veggies, and before that I don't care too much about veggies. While I've grown my veggies, I get to observe how those plants grow, and how they develop, from seedling, to sampling, to seed bearing, to withering and finally to a dead plant. Suddenly, my empathy towards plants has increased, to the point it hurts seeing some of those I interact with eating plants. When I see parts of a plant being cut, and eaten, I feel like that's  my arm being cut and eaten. It was too disturbing that I had to come up with excuses to leave and distance myself away from vegans. This was a similar process towards animals, because I've had home pets and observed animals for drawing.

   

[Scholar]

7 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@StarStruck

   I've also been triggered by vegans as well, because of their level of emotional responses. Although I have similar to different reasons behind the hate than you.

   The volume of food consumption, vitamin supplements, doctor appointments, and medical tests including blood tests, all depend on each vegan's body health and psychology, which determines the ranges of choice. Also, it depends on if medical options are covered by government, as some governments don't cover for medical tests, manufacturing of supplement pills, and food supply can be limiting.

 

This is so ironic when it is actually people who consume animals products who have all kinds of diseases and put the entire health care system under stress because they eat at mcdonalds every day. I never had to have a blood test for veganism, I take vitamins that pretty much everyone should take (and animal products are supplemented with those vitamins anyways, you are just consuming them second hand).

The food volume consumption is lower with vegans because there is not an entire cow that is eating food so they can eat the cow.

 

4 minutes ago, K Ghoul said:

Go tell him to go be a vegan, he will laugh in your face. Fortunately, he is not going to let his family get starved and malnourished during winter in -50 Celsius by chewing on some carrots.

Why don't you look at yourself instead of appealling to people who according to you will literally starve to death if they don't consume pigs. I don't see vegans walking around in siberia telling people to starve. I am seeing them walking around in first world countries telling people to stop consuming flesh for nothing but pleasure and convinience.

The discussion of whether your brother truly needs to consume pigs to survive is another one, but it is completely besides the point and has nothing to do with what we are talking about here.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Scholar

[Danioover9000]

@Scholar

4 minutes ago, Scholar said:

This is so ironic when it is actually people who consume animals products who have all kinds of diseases and put the entire health care system under stress because they eat at mcdonalds every day. I never had to have a blood test for veganism, I take vitamins that pretty much everyone should take (and animal products are supplemented with those vitamins anyways, you are just consuming them second hand).

The food volume consumption is lower with vegans because there is not an entire cow that is eating food so they can eat the cow.

   Which people? Which kinds of disease? What kinds of animal products? Which health care system? Only McDonalds, or junk food in general? Why no tests for you? Which vitamins to take for everybody? Which part of the world has lower vegetable consumption?

   It is relative. 

[Scholar]

2 minutes ago, K Ghoul said:

And why don’t you talk about things that are real, things that matter. What I am bringing up here is the reality for ALOT of people, not just my family. 

Speaking for myself, I have already made my points clear previously. Vegan ideology is a manufactured phenomenon that was born out of necessity to accommodate very unpleasant changes that are happening on our planet right now. That’s all there is to it.

If that's what it takes for you to sleep better at night.

 

The mental gymnastics here is unreal.