Considering suicide

[Dunnel]

@KeyholeYoure right. Im trying to figure that out before I make the decision. Feels like Im on pause mode right now. I cant really make myself commit 100% if I dont know whether Im gonna do it or not. Need to contemplate more on it. Apreciate your nuanced take. 

[snowyowl]

@Dunnel   Really sorry to hear you're going through this man, no-one deserves to suffer like this. Been depressed myself in the past, I totally understand you're desperate to find a way out of the pain of the OCD. That's what the suicidal thoughts are about, wanting to end the suffering, not your life. Have you had any professional help? Please try and accept whatever you can. Nahm is an angel in disguise, I hope you can find a way to chat with him. 

Think of what your life could be like in a few years time, if the suffering is gone, what is your dream, your life purpose? I'm sure there is a shining star to follow if you give life a chance. 

Also I see you live in Norway, are you getting enough sunlight on your skin? Maybe some light therapy and vitamin D would help? 

[No Self]

3 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

There's 2 rational justifications I can think of:

The suffering your suicide would cause people who know you.

And the possibility that it can get better later in life. But it's of course not certain that it will get better. The chance of it getting better varies between cases.

I've always railed against the argument about causing suffering to others. It implies living purely for the feelings of others. Should somebody stay in an abusive relationship to avoid hurting the feelings of the partner?

The 'it can get better' argument is very applicable to young people. Not so applicable to 80-year-olds. People in between need to decide where to draw the line.

One thing to keep in mind is that many suicide attempts fail and can lead to permanent injury or being treated horribly by government institutions. Other methods may be barbaric or unethical. The only peaceful and effective methods require much forethought, which is good in a way as it prevents people from making rash decisions.

Another consideration is the research of suicide-NDE studies. Even a quick search of NDERF will enable unbiased research into the topic. Often people find themselves in the 'void' for long periods, denied the great light that normally applies to people whose lives conclude conventionally. According to Neale Donald Walsch's Home with God book, individuals who complete suicide will be reborn, back in time, into the same lifetime to try again.

While the story of the 'unhappy me' is of course very familiar and very strongly identified with, my advice is to find out if it is true before trying to kill the body as a solution. I am not speaking of meditation as a pain-management band-aid, but the way of Eckhart Tolle, the way of Nisargadatta Maharaj, the way of Ramana Maharshi. Die before you die.

[Dunnel]

@snowyowlI have been talking to a psychologist. She wasnt very helpful. Her solutions were pretty materialistic and dosent matter to me anymore after learning that you can be happy or peaceful by just not engaging with the mind for a long period of time. That is essentially only what I care about right now because all I want is some relief. The idea of a life purpose has become arbitrary to me. A desire by the ego. Even though you can probably feel like you have purpose when there is no ego left. But that is not my concern anymore. I will countinue my spiritual journey and see were it leads me. Seeing how Leo talks about love after death though makes it pretty tempting because he is so convinced that is the case after shrooming out on dmt. I cant know for sure, but he has talked about self-deception and various things related to that. I cant help but feel that he has discovered the truth. That becomes even more convincing when other mystics can confirm your immortality. So if that was true, I wouldnt have mind it at all to just die now. I am just very scared of doing it myself. The thought of hurting my family definately is haunting too. I do take suplements for vitamin d sometimes. Rarely going outside though. Hate winter. Gonna walk more outside when spring comes up, if Im still alive. 

[Blackhawk]

14 minutes ago, No Self said:

I've always railed against the argument about causing suffering to others. It implies living purely for the feelings of others. Should somebody stay in an abusive relationship to avoid hurting the feelings of the partner?

The 'it can get better' argument is very applicable to young people. Not so applicable to 80-year-olds. People in between need to decide where to draw the line.

One thing to keep in mind is that many suicide attempts fail and can lead to permanent injury or being treated horribly by government institutions. Other methods may be barbaric or unethical. The only peaceful and effective methods require much forethought, which is good in a way as it prevents people from making rash decisions.

Another consideration is the research of suicide-NDE studies. Even a quick search of NDERF will enable unbiased research into the topic. Often people find themselves in the 'void' for long periods, denied the great light that normally applies to people whose lives conclude conventionally. According to Neale Donald Walsch's Home with God book, individuals who complete suicide will be reborn, back in time, into the same lifetime to try again.

While the story of the 'unhappy me' is of course very familiar and very strongly identified with, my advice is to find out if it is true before trying to kill the body as a solution. I am not speaking of meditation as a pain-management band-aid, but the way of Eckhart Tolle, the way of Nisargadatta Maharaj, the way of Ramana Maharshi. Die before you die.

Well, fact is that other people would suffer very much if someone committs suicide, there's no way to get around it, even if you think that morally people have the right to kill themselves. I think they do morally have the right to kill themselves. But that it causes others to suffer immensely is a simple fact, so anyone who has even a bit empathy should put that in the calculation.

One of the most common suicide methods is safe and painless when done properly. But since you aren't allowed to mention safe methods in forums.. people choose bad methods.

NDE accounts can't be trusted as evidence. And when people like Neale Donald Walsch and other "gurus" claim something without any evidence.. It's not worth anything at all. His book could be used as toilet paper though.

[Dunnel]

@No SelfThat has been my goal for a few months now. Whats driving me insane is that its technically possible that I can just become enlightened right now. Especially when I feel so close to getting there. Or when I feel a deep sense of bliss, but lose it a few seconds later. 

[kag101]

On 1/24/2021 at 1:12 PM, Dunnel said:

Im basically just bitching online so that people can feel sorry for me.

No! 

You're going through deep pain, and you're asking for help. 

On 1/24/2021 at 0:39 PM, Dunnel said:

After I have meditated for like an hour the motivation to do it is even stronger.

My advice is for you to stop your meditation practice. It is clearly doing you harm. 

 

Some questions: 

• Have you ever been to a psychiatrist? 

• Are you searching for a new therapist? 

• Does your family know about your situation? 

[No Self]

5 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

Well, fact is that other people would suffer very much if someone committs suicide, there's no way to get around it, even if you think that morally people have the right to kill themselves. I think they do morally have the right to kill themselves. But that it causes others to suffer immensely is a simple fact, so anyone who has even a bit empathy should put that in the calculation.

One of the most common suicide methods is safe and painless when done properly. But since you aren't allowed to mention safe methods in forums.. people choose bad methods.

This varies enormously from person to person. There are people with no family and no friends in this world, so that factor does not apply, or only minimally. For many others, there are loved ones who would suffer and this is worth accounting for. Another big ethical issue is that there can be trauma inflicted on whoever discovers the body. 

Can't comment on methods for the same reason, but my research was based on that of organisations like Exit International.

As for evidence, the nature of the situation is that the word of those with personal experience or insight must be taken or else dismissed. The sheer scale of the consensus around this issue from a variety of spiritual seers and individuals who have experienced 'death' (or lack thereof) first-hand is hard to dismiss. The conclusion is much the same as Keyhole summarised below; I presume he is about to be blasted for lack of evidence also.

5 hours ago, Keyhole said:

The main issue with suicide, is that consciousness grows - and so if you cut it short, you still have to learn those lessons.  So when you come back here, you will be presented with similar circumstances.  It is better to work through it in this life than the next.  There is a whole plan for your life that is entangled with everyone else - Indra's net.

 

5 hours ago, Dunnel said:

@No SelfThat has been my goal for a few months now. Whats driving me insane is that its technically possible that I can just become enlightened right now. Especially when I feel so close to getting there. Or when I feel a deep sense of bliss, but lose it a few seconds later. 

I understand what you are saying. For almost everyone, it is necessary to get help around this issue. The right online video or the right forum comment may help since you seem on the verge of breakthrough. Or you may need to seek out someone who can give you the right guidance in exposing the falseness of the mind - including the identity of the frustrated seeker. You may have noticed that many of the greatest spiritual success stories start out in exactly the place that you are now. People with sheltered lives need not apply.

[Blackhawk]

3 hours ago, No Self said:

As for evidence, the nature of the situation is that the word of those with personal experience or insight must be taken or else dismissed. The sheer scale of the consensus around this issue from a variety of spiritual seers and individuals who have experienced 'death' (or lack thereof) first-hand is hard to dismiss. The conclusion is much the same as Keyhole summarised below; I presume he is about to be blasted for lack of evidence also.

They are easy to dismiss.

They could be lying, hallucinating, dreaming, imagining, believing or mentally masturbating, etc.

Keyhole has a excellent signature. But I don't know if I can trust my experience either, since I could be hallucinating or something. Or well, I can trust my direct experience.. but direct experience doesn't say anything about the future, for example.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Blackhawk

[Raze]

 

[mikelyons]

@Dunnel  I would love to talk to you, if you're open to it. It's wild what you're explaining here, I feel like you're in my head. I have been experiencing the same desperate need just to have no more experiences. No more desires. To be relieved from the need to maintain survival.

I've been thinking really hard about why and what I can do, and just anything to stop me from thinking about suicide, which has gotten exhausting and repetitive.

I am afraid that I don't have what it takes, and that I just can never develop into it. My ego is pissed off at not getting what it wants but also doesn't want to do any work to get any of it.

But really its because I want to have all the love. I want to love and be loved. And I am afraid I never really will, and my life will be wasted.

But what would it be like to look back from the death bed and not have any regrets?

[snowyowl]

22 hours ago, Dunnel said:

you can be happy or peaceful by just not engaging with the mind for a long period of time. That is essentially only what I care about right now because all I want is some relief.I have been talking to a psychologist. She wasnt very helpful. Her solutions were pretty materialistic and dosent matter to me anymore after learning that you can be happy or peaceful by just not engaging with the mind for a long period of time. That is essentially only what I care about right now because all I want is some relief. The idea of a life purpose has become arbitrary to me.

Not engaging the mind sounds rather like meditation? If it's a source of happiness that's awesome, keep at it. 

Also I would reconsider the psychologist's help, it may be materialistic but it's still important to learn the lessons of stage orange before you progress to green, otherwise it leaves a shadow of unfulfilled potential. That's my humble opinion anyway, or you could try a different therapist if you don't click with the first one. 

[Shunyata]

sounds like aspd

[captainamerica]

@Dunnel I know a person who can help heal OCD. Will it be viable for you to travel internationally though? 

Edited January 27, 2021 by captainamerica

[hyruga]

Stop thinking so much. People think their way to suicide.

 

[lmfao]

@Dunnel Do you feel worse after meditation because there's nothing, e.g. technology, which is distracting you from the negative emotion? 

[Dunnel]

@lmfaoyes. I know that this process is necesary so that I can grow spiritually but im too weak to endure it. I do sometimes just sit there for hours but spend a lot of times daydreaming its not very effective. Im considering becoming a monk. I need to just get away from technology. Im waiting that the pandemic will go over soon.

 

[Dunnel]

@kag101The thing is, is that I want to take meds for this. But the only thing that matters to me right now is to grow spiritually. Taking meds means that I esencially have given up on confronting my emotions. But if i decide that i dont wanna be a monk anymore and that Im too weak to commit to, I might as well give it a shot.

My family is well aware abouy my problems. 

Have talked to like 4 psychologists/therapists. Only one helped but couldnt talk to him anymore because i turned 18. Was for kids under 18 only. His messsge was pretty simple though but encouraged me to get better. 

 

[Elsiedottie]

Suicide is not an option my dear. Please don't think like this and life is beautiful creation of God. So you should enjoy as much as possible.

[snowyowl]

@Dunnel

On 25/01/2021 at 10:27 PM, Dunnel said:

 

Regarding becoming a monk. if this is an idea which appeals, I'd suggest talking with a community, openly explain your situation and asking how you can get involved in an introductory way first. Also focus on your medical/psychological  treatment too. What type of community do you have in mind? 

The thing is, life as a monk involves a huge lifestyle change with obedience to the rules, a loss of personal freedom and less distractions from yourself and any problems. You can't just switch on the TV or eat something whenever you feel like it. But I think your intuition of some time with a supportive community doing more authentic down to earth activities can be healing. 

Edited February 15, 2021 by snowyowl