Posted January 23, 2021 1 minute ago, RedLine said: of course you can "be" on psychedelics, you always "be" so therefore there is no difference between be on psychedelics and don´t be on psychedelics 3 minutes ago, Vibroverse said: It is weird that such a thing as psychedelics do exist though. But as someone who had many experiences with psychedelics, I believe that one does not need them to experience nirvana. But, maybe because of the belief, it tends to being effective. Taking psychedelics is an ego. Because you still think that there is a body and you are inside of it. Therefore try to increase your consciousness with taking something. ?♂️Meanwhile, enlightenment is of realization that you have never born, now is before birth. And only so called thought process makes so called “birth” . Because you learn your “birth, and “yourself “. Real question is if you never learn yourself and birth, can you born? (Including psychedelics or universe ). 10 minutes ago, acidgoofy said: @James123 and why can't you just "be" on psychedelics? Because of thought process never stops. “Mind” must be dropped for awakening. Naming and labeling must be end. There is no such a thing as “my experience”. "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said: I am more interested in your insights, but they are always the same, . nothing, nothing, nothing. My question is: do you realize nothing in your meditation and in your daily life, or have you realized it once and all your thinking is based on that time? This is lala land. There is so such a thing as insight or daily life. Do you think you are in universe now? When you dont think everything is identical. You still like to learn and experience. Got it. But enlightenment is end of everything. ? follow your path. Have fun. "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23, 2021 24 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said: So to say, psychedelics are useless, and without having tried them, he is arrogant and stupid Peter Ralston and Jed Mckenna have tried psychedelics and say that they're useless. ... Anyway, to OP... We've had this discussion infinite times on the forum... Look: I think we should take a step back first and define enlightenment before continuing with pointless discussions. “If you have no confidence in yourself, you are twice defeated in the race of life. But with confidence you have won, even before you start.” -- Marcus Garvey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, James123 said: Explain the reason of being close minded or fool? 1) You think that making a critique of the epistemological and methodological foundation of science means to negate science in total. Your reasoning is basically "you can't criticize something and using its product" If you had bothered to comprehend Leo's video in detail, you would have noticed that He gives merit to science for its creations. His critiques pointed to a much deeper place. 2) Leo has never claimed that "drugs" can give you full Liberation (Nirvana/Moksha), which is different from saying that they make you have a mystical experience. They can be of enormous help though, if put beside a daily spiritual practice, as Leo always says. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23, 2021 @Mike21 Oh boy, they really can. And it doesn't stop at Samadhi either. "Find what you love and let it kill you." - Charles Bukowski Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23, 2021 13 minutes ago, Gesundheit said: Peter Ralston and Jed Mckenna have tried psychedelics and say that they're useless. With intent or as teenagers for recreation? Dont look at me! Look inside! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23, 2021 14 minutes ago, Gesundheit said: Peter Ralston y Jed Mckenna han probado psicodélicos y dicen que son inútiles. I guess they said they are useless to them. if they say they are useless for everyone, the same as mooji etc: extreme arrogance Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, _Archangel_ said: ) You think that making a critique of the epistemological and methodological foundation of science means to negate science in total. Your reasoning is basically "you can't criticize something and using its product" If you had bothered to comprehend Leo's video in detail, you would have noticed that He gives merit to science for its creations. His critiques pointed to a much deeper place. ??? he criticize the science most and his magic pill coms from science. Are you ok? This is hypocrisy. 8 minutes ago, _Archangel_ said: Leo has never claimed that "drugs" can give you full Liberation (Nirvana/Moksha), which is different from saying that they make you have a mystical experience. They can be of enormous help though, if put beside a daily spiritual practice, as Leo always says. Enlightenment never comes with psychedelics. Nirvana can not be experienced, can just “be”. You can never “be” while on psychedelics. Because of the thought process goes on non stop therefore mind can not be dropped. "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23, 2021 I didn't expect @Leo Gura to be so defensive about it. I lot of coping and hurt egos for 2 hours old topic, threats of bans, etc. Maybe you, Leo, are the dogmatic one, why else would you so plainly reject what these gurus were saying about drugs. If drugs were so effective why aren't you enlightened yet? Why can't you stay in the state? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, Rilles said: With intent or as teenagers for recreation? I don't know. But I know that Martin Ball believes in an objective world out there independent of our individual consciousness. Does this count as enlightenment? “If you have no confidence in yourself, you are twice defeated in the race of life. But with confidence you have won, even before you start.” -- Marcus Garvey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23, 2021 I think it can be helpful for some people. It clearly was helpful for me, and what I learned from them is still helpful to me. I just agree with Mooji and Rupert Spira in the sense that one does not need them to experience oneness. I don't think it is necessary. And I even think it can be placebo kinda. There are some experiments that indicate this idea and my own experiences as well. They in my opinion help with taking you deep into your self and show you who you are, that you are the self. But I definitely think that we don't need drugs to be who we already are. I think that it is like teachers, like taking some lsd and being like in the presence of an awakened being. Maybe it is because something like those drugs having their own like consciousnesses which you can like resonate with when you take the substance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, James123 said: You can never “be” while on psychedelics. Could you explain that ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, James123 said: You can never “be” while on psychedelics. Because of the thought process goes on non stop therefore mind can not be dropped. 28 minutes ago, James123 said: 34 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said: Sorry can't unquote. Brother you keep repeating that but it's certainly not true. Last time I did drugs I was 4 hours in no mind state. Being nothing. There were no thought process. Just pure intuition and instant will. It wasn't even a psychedelic. I know your intention is good but it doesn't help anybody to critic so harshly psychedelics. Becausr they can help. I think we are discussing here the topic about "permanent enlightenment". Being surrendered to the truth in the Now always. Of course I don't nobody is saying psychedelics will do that for you. The point is not to say that psychedelics will save you and make you surrender. The point is they can help, just as finite methods as meditation or self inquiry do. Nobody here says that self inquiry can enlighten you. Yet we are not here critizising it as everybody loves to do about psychedelics Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23, 2021 He is correct, you will never find enlightenment using any sort of substance. You may find glimpses of enlightenment, and you will definitely widen your perspective significantly, but the ego will always come back to haunt you, make your life miserable, and make you forget who you are. This is inevitable because the power that you borrow when you take psychedelics is temporary. This becomes immediately evident when no matter how deep your insights on psychedelics are, you will forget 100% of everything the second you come off, and only the residual feeling will linger on, but you will forget the actual insight because you can't humanize it, you can't English it, and you can't fit it into human logic, so the ego has no ground to stand on. The best use for psychedelic is as a tool to break down egos that are so solidified and so cemented in place that any other method of trying to probe them will fail. This is what Don Juan did to Castaneda. At some point he stopped using psychedelics and literally said "from here on, those are useless". With enough power, you can enter those worlds and beyond, on your own with your own power. I typically love your content Leo but when you say "these gurus are full of bullshit and high on their own dogmas" you fail to realize that the same holds for you. Ram Dass mentioned in a lot of his talks how he gave his guru ridiculous doses of LSD to see what happens, and nothing ever did. His guru supposedly just said "oh, these give you siddhis, right?", smiled and went on about his business. This baffled Ram Dass to no end but in the end he settled for the simple explanation "if you're in Cleveland, you don't need to take a bus to Cleveland". The fundamental truth of psychedelics is they are powerful entities which you can -borrow- power from to have essentially power experiences, in other words magic experiences. If this power isn't yours, then the experience is a passing phase and you will never get the point. If you over-do it, all that is liable to happen is it will make you mad by tearing your sense of identity apart. But this isn't enlightenment, enlightenment is out of this world, quite literally. And the reason these gurus don't talk about truths you find with psychedelics is because gurus have to treat everyone as kids. I've smoked a potent Salvia extract a number of times in my life, and by far the most insightful experience was when lady Salvia whispered into my ear that "this isn't the way". It is a good light show though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23, 2021 @Mike21 Nothing can get you somewhere else, since "not two", nowhere to go. Psychedelics, meditation practices, etc.... It's all content, the screen is always present. Yet psychedelics is one of the best tools to open the mind to a different kind of content, so you may see the screen, and even maybe see that any content is the screen itself. Do not deny any path, follow the best feeling thought, listen to your Heart. ? What a dream, what a joke, love it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Javfly33 said: Brother you keep repeating that but it's certainly not true. Last time I did drugs I was 4 hours in no mind state. Being nothing. There were no thought process. Just pure intuition and instant will. But unfortunately brother, you still didn’t get it. there is no such a thing as state, coming or going, 4 hours vs. YOU HAVE NEVER BORN. Keep trying psychedelics brother. Like there is a body and you are inside of it. You will never enlightened with psychedelics. Because true self never comes and goes. Just saying that enlightenment and mystical experiences are completely opposite to each other. Because the experiencer is just an illusion. Have a nice mistical experiences and being no mind state and coming back to “reality”. Much love to you! Edited January 23, 2021 by James123 "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, James123 said: But unfortunately brother, you still didn’t get it. there is no such a thing as state, coming or going, 4 hours vs. YOU HAVE NEVER BORN. Keep trying psychedelics brother. Like there is a body and you are inside of it. You will never enlightened with psychedelics. Because true self never comes and goes. Have a nice mistical experiences and being no mind state and coming back to “reality”. Much love to you! Ok, I am going to be open minded. Additionally, if no practices tools or drugs can really help or get you closer, then what is there to do?? So you haven't "came back"? @James123 Edited January 23, 2021 by Javfly33 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Javfly33 said: Ok, I am going to be open minded. Additionally, if no practices tools or drugs can really help or get you closer, then what is there to do?? So you haven't "came back"? @James123 Brother, Just saying that enlightenment and mystical experiences are completely opposite to each other. Because the experiencer is just an illusion. If your birth was never happened, and now is before birth, how can i be james123 or go or come back. Separation has never occurred. Now is non duality. "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) 35 minutes ago, impulse9 said: I typically love your content Leo but when you say "these gurus are full of bullshit and high on their own dogmas" you fail to realize that the same holds for you. Ram Dass mentioned in a lot of his talks how he gave his guru ridiculous doses of LSD to see what happens, and nothing ever did. His guru supposedly just said "oh, these give you siddhis, right?", smiled and went on about his business. This baffled Ram Dass to no end but in the end he settled for the simple explanation "if you're in Cleveland, you don't need to take a bus to Cleveland". The fundamental truth of psychedelics is they are powerful entities which you can -borrow- power from to have essentially power experiences, in other words magic experiences. If this power isn't yours, then the experience is a passing phase and you will never get the point. If you over-do it, all that is liable to happen is it will make you mad by tearing your sense of identity apart. But this isn't enlightenment, enlightenment is out of this world, quite literally. And the reason these gurus don't talk about truths you find with psychedelics is because gurus have to treat everyone as kids. Definitely? After enlightenment, entire universe becomes a thought. Not even. Edited January 23, 2021 by James123 "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 23, 2021 47 minutes ago, impulse9 said: I've smoked a potent Salvia extract a number of times in my life, and by far the most insightful experience was when lady Salvia whispered into my ear that "this isn't the way". It is a good light show though. And what is the way exactly? Funny how people criticizes psychedelics yet don't give any other alternatives for Enlightenment. So samadhi doing pramamaya is real and samadhi after sniffing some powder in the nose is not? . Ay lmao. I had mystical experiences in yoga and they have been as useful and useless as those induced via psychedelics. It's because I can't be doing fucking yoga 8 hours a day. As any other practice it's inevitably temporary. But without doing practices and " drugs " it's even worse So what is the solution? Because not everybody just are born with a naturally ability to surrender/have no ego. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
