Right-Wing Media 180

[Hello from Russia]

@Preety_India That is very disempowering. From that paradigm basically any work (even a very valuable and creative one) = doing some evil stuff. Is it really true?

[Preety_India]

Just now, Hello from Russia said:

@Preety_India That is very disempowering. From that paradigm basically any work (even a very valuable and creative one) = doing some evil stuff. Is it really true?

No.. Work is not evil. Money is evil. Work is always good, whatever work it is. 

[Delis]

I think that in a resource-based economic system money could be more purely an universal currency or in other words a means to exchange resources. In the current economic system, money is a vehicle to a dream of infinite economic growth, which ultimately boils down to how spiritually evolved people, communities, companies and states/countries are. If people would be more conscious, even investing and stocks could be a democratic way to promote ideas and endeavors that would likely to produce outcomes that benefit the societies and our ecosystem as a whole.

[Hello from Russia]

Lol, you guys are so confused about money

[Preety_India]

6 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

Lol, you guys are so confused about money

If you want to know more about how I think about money, then watch this to get an idea. 

 

[DocWatts]

While I do think we need to reevaluate the mistaken notion that all technology is inherently ethically neutral (try making that argument for something like nerve gas or nuclear weapons), money is one of those cases where it really is just an ethically neutral tool. 

All that money really is a means of exchange; one that exists under a socio-economic system that's either more or less humane.

I don't disagree at all with decommodifying some essentials that markets tend to do a poor job of supplying (such Health Care, Education, or Utilities), but for most things money is really the only game in town. Maybe combine that with some sort of UBI to make sure people's basic needs are being met.

Edited January 22, 2021 by DocWatts

[Delis]

@Preety_India , @@Hello from Russia In my view both of you see only the other side of the coin. Yes, money is the universal currency and as such a necessity that cannot be abandoned in the foreseeable future, but it is also an instrument of power, exploitation and injustice in the current system and current state of consciousness.

For example, covid-19 vaccines have been developed by medical companies in co-operation with public health care research and funding and, to my knowledge, majority of the basic research behind the vaccine development is carried out and/or funded by public. But when the vaccines are approved, private health companies have a monopoly for their production and only few companies produce vaccines while most of the world's laboratory capacity remain unutilized. Thus it may take surprisingly long to get majority of the people around the globe vaccined as rich countries have the money to purchase majority of the vaccines (and they purchase them in excess, more than the would need to make sure they are the first to be able to stop social distancing and the economic harms that come with it)  and it may take a long time before countries such as India gets enough vaccines. But in the more resource-based economy companies would have more responsibilities than just generating wealth to the stock owners and more of the world's lab capacity could be utilized for the production of vaccines and more quickly could we move pass the pandemic.

Edited January 22, 2021 by Delis

[Raphael]

9 hours ago, The Don said:

After studying @Leo Gura's work (I'm grateful to Leo) and implementing a daily meditation habit, I got temporarily worse. It was a painful purification process. But eventually, I overcame my depression and I started to eat healthier, increasing my energy levels substantially.

Now I'm better than ever, having a great job, being present, diligent, and productive.

I'm no longer in favor of Socialism because I know what it does to people. I know the impact Socialism has on their lives. It's no joke!

People should be liberated through self-actualization, as a government check will make their situation worse and perpetuate their own problems. A government check can stifle your development as a human being.

I'm glad I didn't take money from the government.

What if governments delivered self-actualization help and programs? Would you consider it as socialism?

In the future, I think that self-actualization will be (and is already to  some levels) part of government and that the government will offer free help for people to self-actualize.

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Even being someone who supports Socialism as a replacement for the current system (until of course the 'second tier' system is discovered), even I can't bring it to myself to call money 'evil'.

 

 

 

I saw money drive a wedge between two people who loved each other. I saw money separate siblings and fight each other over it. I saw how money made people desperate and greedy and walk away from love and destroy families. I saw money make people rich and forget love and care. I saw money make people look down on others. I saw money make people forget relationships and bonds. I saw money make people corrupt and greedy for more. I saw money give people false power. I saw money make people forget real happiness. 

I saw money like a snake in the grass. I saw money enter the house like a snake and poison the whole family. 

Money is like a boogeyman that took all the children one by one. 

Truly its a sickness that must be rid of. Until then the poisoning will continue. 

 

[DocWatts]

Incredibly instructive video from David Pakman on a focus group in which Trump supporters explain why they believe the things they do. Cringe inducing yet quite informative on how evident it is that these people have been programmed by manipulative Right Wing media.
 

 

[snowyowl]

2 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

What? Are you suggesting that Socialists are mentally ill?

I'm seeing another example of the classic, Socialists are lazy naïve college students sporting Che Guevara t-shirts stereotype.

This is hilarious, when actually the military, schools and other public services paid by taxation (including the government itself) are perfect examples of socialism in action. And it works extremely well for some sectors of national life. I think the debate is over whether the socialist (state run) model works all through the society. In the UK, we used to have nationalised car factories, steel works, coal mines etc in the 60s & 70s, which didn't compete very well internationally. Maybe that's the difference, socialism works better for internal national organisations, but (in our current international situation) less well in a global capitalist competitive environment. An argument for a liberal mixture of two systems perhaps? Then the nice thing is that individuals can have some choice whether to work in one or other system.

Edited January 22, 2021 by snowyowl

[snowyowl]

@Husseinisdoingfine  I'm thinking of Socialism as something like the state control & ownership of the means of production. It's a sliding scale, I mean obvs the state can't do everything for me, but neither can we have no state control at all. Welfare isn't necessarily the same issue, but I guess it's related. After all you get welfare in the form of subsidies and state aid given to capitalist businesses too. 

[DocWatts]

Public ownership of the means of production is one way of doing Socialism, but there are also more Libertarian forms of Socialism which focus more on workers democratically owning the businesses they work for, where businesses still operate within a market system. 

What I see as a more workable system would probably end up being a blend of Social Democracy and Market Socialism. Most of the economy would still consist of businesses competing within a market framework, but businesses are run much more democratically than they are now. This wouldn't necessarily have to mean every workplace would be fully democratic, but could mean that companies above a certain size would have to include worker representation on its board of directors. In firms that are still traditionally run, the inherent power imbalance between employee and employer would have to be addressed in some way, either by much stronger protections for workers, or making it much easier for employees to start a Union.

This system would also include public ownership of Industries that are essential to public well being, but only in places where Markets do not function well (health care, utilities, public transit, etc).

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by DocWatts

[abrakamowse]

10 hours ago, snowyowl said:

 I'm thinking of Socialism as something like the state control & ownership of the means of production.

Right now there's something similar, the only difference is that now the means of production are controlled by a ruling class, not by the state. That ruling class even rules the state/governments/etc by infiltrating in them, and becoming part of the state/government.

Much more subtle but very damaging to the working class nevertheless. Anyway, socialism the way it was implemented in other countries like Russia or China won't work here I think... it will be more a kind of social democracy like in some European countries, like Scandinavia, Denmark, Norway, etc...

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by abrakamowse

[abrakamowse]

23 hours ago, The Don said:

My theory on "why are people craving Socialism" is the following: those who can't take care of themselves will always rely on someone else's money.

Exactly! You nailed it! The corporate ruling class can't take care of themselves so they hire people paying them wage slavery salaries so they can keep their money. Money (value) that THEY created... very "smart" indeed... they found a way to rely on someone else's money (understand this: someone else's money = workers money).

Read about Surplus value and you will understand that better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surplus_value

Edited January 23, 2021 by abrakamowse

[Willie]

On 1/22/2021 at 11:43 AM, DocWatts said:

Incredibly instructive video from David Pakman on a focus group in which Trump supporters explain why they believe the things they do. Cringe inducing yet quite informative on how evident it is that these people have been programmed by manipulative Right Wing media.
 

 

I don’t particularly disagree with Packman in any way, but how do you help people who don’t want your help? You don’t. Let them have their self-induced suffering. Forcing help on people isn’t helpful. It takes self-awareness to realize that something’s wrong with yourself and not reality. I’m surprised even one of them could manage that. It sucks to watch, and it’s even worse if you know a loved one who thinks like this. They need to want the help first.

[Lyubov]

ted cruz is pathetic 

[Freakyboo]

Ted Cruz does nothing but pander - pander to the Trump base because he wants to run for President, and pander to his fossil fuel donors.  He's the very definition of a snake, and it doesn't surprise me that he's massively disliked by those who know him personally.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Freakyboo