Heaven and Hell

[xxxx]

A few questions:

1) What is your definition of heaven and hell?

2) Can a person do very horrible things, that in ordinary circumstances would affect anyone deeply, and still be in a state of heaven, considering people tell that these are mental states (example: enlightened serial killers)?

3) Now, we are aware of certain laws surrounding our existence — what if there’s actually another dimensional physical hell for not having acted out of love here in this human existence? Like, a specific law governing that — something like the laws of physics? What if? And where does one draw that line concerning love — love for self / others / no hurt / kindness? 

God is infinite, right? What’s stopping it from doing this? It very much can do that, too, among the infinite other things. In this case, how do we lead our lives? Is there a blueprint? Probably we are a part of the plan of a physical heaven and hell for God? How can we be sure that we are not? (Take the movie Interstellar {using this just for the sake of an example} — hell could be that we are stuck in a space of just experiences, and these are solely bad, and they keep playing again, and again — an infinite loop of hopelessness?)

4) In our human form, how exactly should heaven feel? The other thread, on happiness got me thinking about this possibility. Can the feeling of heaven be eternal? If it’s all so mental — what’s stopping us? 

5) Is heaven the transcendence of the ego, or a dwelling in the ego? For you cannot feel anything outside your ego — and states of happiness and bliss are felt. 

6) In the case of the aforementioned scenarios regarding the mental states— is hell is a permanent state of being (our lives being deeply rooted in survival), with heaven just a temporary state, with a lot of limits? 

Shall be happy to hear your insights. 

 

[Ajay0]

As per the Prajapita Brahmakumari religious philosophy, peace and joy are the natural qualities of the soul, but these are obscured by intense desires in the form of cravings and aversions for pleasure and pain, due to  identification with the mind-body complex, and which produces misery and suffering.

Rather than being in the state of pure consciousness , one identifies blindly with the temporary body and consequently experiences negative emotions and vices in the form of lust, hatred, greed, inordinate attachment and egoism. This state is known as body-consciousness, and body-consciousness is considered as the source of all vices.

Considering oneself as an eternal conscious soul in a temporary body and identifying with the consciousness within is considered as soul-consciousness. This generates peace and tranquility in the system.

Thus heaven and hell is considered as a state of mind or consciousness.

[James123]

@xxxx 

1- Heaven is surrendering, ego is suffering or hell.

2- No.

3- God is nothingness. There is no such a thing as another dimension, infinite, human vs. No self is love.

4- Freedom, effortlessness, bliss, compassion. 

5- letting go of the ego. There is no “me” nor “you”. You are the “bliss, happiness and love ”.

6- Life is suffering. Enlightenment is end of suffering, which is end of life too. Everything is temporary, except nothingness.

[Gesundheit]

1 hour ago, xxxx said:

2) Can a person do very horrible things, that in ordinary circumstances would affect anyone deeply, and still be in a state of heaven, considering people tell that these are mental states (example: enlightened serial killers)?

Can a human take an antibiotic and kill billions of bacteria, and still be in a state of heaven?

1 hour ago, xxxx said:

3) Now, we are aware of certain laws surrounding our existence — what if there’s actually another dimensional physical hell for not having acted out of love here in this human existence? Like, a specific law governing that — something like the laws of physics? What if? And where does one draw that line concerning love — love for self / others / no hurt / kindness? 

God is infinite, right? What’s stopping it from doing this? It very much can do that, too, among the infinite other things. In this case, how do we lead our lives? Is there a blueprint? Probably we are a part of the plan of a physical heaven and hell for God? How can we be sure that we are not? (Take the movie Interstellar {using this just for the sake of an example} — hell could be that we are stuck in a space of just experiences, and these are solely bad, and they keep playing again, and again — an infinite loop of hopelessness?)

It doesn't matter, because there is no free will anyway.

1 hour ago, xxxx said:

4) Can the feeling of heaven be eternal?

In my experience, no.

In reality, I don't know.

[Breakingthewall]

imagine a zebra surrounded by its herd, the gentle cool breeze blows, the grass is green and abundant, the aroma is wonderful, life exolites in its being, it is, and nothing else.

imagine that same zebra with a broken leg, abandoned by its herd, gnawed for days by insects, waiting for scavengers in the midst of terror. both are god

[ivankiss]

12 hours ago, xxxx said:

1) What is your definition of heaven and hell?

Two polarities, same spectrum.

12 hours ago, xxxx said:

2) Can a person do very horrible things, that in ordinary circumstances would affect anyone deeply, and still be in a state of heaven

If a person is doing something horrible that harms other people; that person is already in hell.

12 hours ago, xxxx said:

3) what if there’s actually another dimensional physical hell for not having acted out of love here in this human existence?

There is. Not a fun place.

12 hours ago, xxxx said:

4) In our human form, how exactly should heaven feel? Can the feeling of heaven be eternal? If it’s all so mental — what’s stopping us? 

Peace.

It is eternal. Like anything else. Things being temporary is an illusion.

12 hours ago, xxxx said:

5) Is heaven the transcendence of the ego, or a dwelling in the ego? 

It's just like a radio station. You're either tuned in or you're not. 

12 hours ago, xxxx said:

6) is hell is a permanent state of being (our lives being deeply rooted in survival), with heaven just a temporary state, with a lot of limits?  

Both coexist simultaneously, continuously and forever.

[Moksha]

The Kingdom of Heaven is within You.

Everything else, all the chasing for permanence in impermanence, is the Kingdom of Hell.

Beyond and even including Heaven and Hell, there is Tat.

 

[Nahm]

18 hours ago, xxxx said:

A few questions:

1) What is your definition of heaven and hell?

Heaven & hell are only connotations. 

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2) Can a person do very horrible things, that in ordinary circumstances would affect anyone deeply, and still be in a state of heaven, considering people tell that these are mental states (example: enlightened serial killers)?

Heaven is not a state, it’s an idea. Important to recognize imo, in direct experience, that it is only your idea. And there are no enlightened individuals, also your idea. 

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3) Now, we are aware of certain laws surrounding our existence — what if there’s actually another dimensional physical hell for not having acted out of love here in this human existence? Like, a specific law governing that — something like the laws of physics? What if? And where does one draw that line concerning love — love for self / others / no hurt / kindness? 

There are no laws surrounding our existence, that rules out the possibility you are the “laws”, and it implies we exist. There is not that separate line drawer. Only the thought that there is. 

Quote

God is infinite, right? What’s stopping it from doing this? It very much can do that, too, among the infinite other things. In this case, how do we lead our lives? Is there a blueprint? Probably we are a part of the plan of a physical heaven and hell for God? How can we be sure that we are not? (Take the movie Interstellar {using this just for the sake of an example} — hell could be that we are stuck in a space of just experiences, and these are solely bad, and they keep playing again, and again — an infinite loop of hopelessness?)

God does by not doing, plans by not planning, know things by not knowing things, leads lives by not leading lives. 

Quote

4) In our human form, how exactly should heaven feel? The other thread, on happiness got me thinking about this possibility. Can the feeling of heaven be eternal? If it’s all so mental — what’s stopping us? 

5) Is heaven the transcendence of the ego, or a dwelling in the ego? For you cannot feel anything outside your ego — and states of happiness and bliss are felt. 

6) In the case of the aforementioned scenarios regarding the mental states— is hell is a permanent state of being (our lives being deeply rooted in survival), with heaven just a temporary state, with a lot of limits? 

Shall be happy to hear your insights. 

 

What’s an ego, and how is it that you can not feel outside of it?  What is a permanent state? Experienced that directly? ?

 

 

[ivankiss]

13 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Heaven is not a state, it’s an idea. Important to recognize imo, in direct experience, that it is only your idea. 

Can't there be an actual direct experience of Heaven?

Aren't all ideas (potentially) directly experiental? 

[Vibroverse]

What we call experience is condensed idea. 

[WelcometoReality]

20 hours ago, xxxx said:

A few questions:

1) What is your definition of heaven and hell?

2) Can a person do very horrible things, that in ordinary circumstances would affect anyone deeply, and still be in a state of heaven, considering people tell that these are mental states (example: enlightened serial killers)?

3) Now, we are aware of certain laws surrounding our existence — what if there’s actually another dimensional physical hell for not having acted out of love here in this human existence? Like, a specific law governing that — something like the laws of physics? What if? And where does one draw that line concerning love — love for self / others / no hurt / kindness? 

God is infinite, right? What’s stopping it from doing this? It very much can do that, too, among the infinite other things. In this case, how do we lead our lives? Is there a blueprint? Probably we are a part of the plan of a physical heaven and hell for God? How can we be sure that we are not? (Take the movie Interstellar {using this just for the sake of an example} — hell could be that we are stuck in a space of just experiences, and these are solely bad, and they keep playing again, and again — an infinite loop of hopelessness?)

4) In our human form, how exactly should heaven feel? The other thread, on happiness got me thinking about this possibility. Can the feeling of heaven be eternal? If it’s all so mental — what’s stopping us? 

5) Is heaven the transcendence of the ego, or a dwelling in the ego? For you cannot feel anything outside your ego — and states of happiness and bliss are felt. 

6) In the case of the aforementioned scenarios regarding the mental states— is hell is a permanent state of being (our lives being deeply rooted in survival), with heaven just a temporary state, with a lot of limits? 

Shall be happy to hear your insights. 

 

1. Heaven is to be one with existence and act within the one. Hell is to believe that you are a separate person that needs to understand and act in a certain way, and needs to achieve and struggle to get there.

2. There are many examples of enlightened masters that have done inappropriate/horrible things.

3. Believing that there is a physical hell that you go to if you fail to act in a certain way is in itself hell. Let go of the fear of the unknown future. You don't know what will happen.

4. What's stopping you? Yes that is a great question that you might want to inquire into.

5. The ego is an illusion of the mind. The ego does not feel anything yet it claims that it does. 

6. Hell is an illusion that we can see through. Hell might seem permanent but only until the death of the separate self happens.

[Nahm]

@ivankiss

Yes and no. 

 

[Valwyndir]

This is the best explanation I've heard.

[Someone here]

On 1/21/2021 at 11:56 AM, xxxx said:

What is your definition of heaven and hell

heaven is a religious concept which is supposed to be a place of eternal happiness and pleasure.  Hell is a religious concept which is supposed to be a place of eternal pain and suffering.  

My definition??   the same. 

On 1/21/2021 at 11:56 AM, xxxx said:

Can a person do very horrible things, that in ordinary circumstances would affect anyone deeply, and still be in a state of heaven, considering people tell that these are mental states (example: enlightened serial killers)?

"horrible things" is a relative notion. Why is the criteria here regarding "human beings"? .. Aren't you a serial killer for killing animals and eating them (assume you are not vegan)?  From this perspective all humans are serial killers when it comes to killing animals for food.  

 

On 1/21/2021 at 11:56 AM, xxxx said:

Now, we are aware of certain laws surrounding our existence — what if there’s actually another dimensional physical hell for not having acted out of love here in this human existence? Like, a specific law governing that — something like the laws of physics? What if? And where does one draw that line concerning love — love for self / others / no hurt / kindness? 

Yes all these lines are imaginary. There is no 'dictionary definition' for what "acting out of love" is supposed to mean. 

 

On 1/21/2021 at 11:56 AM, xxxx said:

God is infinite, right? What’s stopping it from doing this? It very much can do that, too, among the infinite other things. In this case, how do we lead our lives? Is there a blueprint? Probably we are a part of the plan of a physical heaven and hell for God? How can we be sure that we are not? (Take the movie Interstellar {using this just for the sake of an example} — hell could be that we are stuck in a space of just experiences, and these are solely bad, and they keep playing again, and again — an infinite loop of hopelessness?)

What is stopping God from creating hell If he is all powerful??  Nothing obviously. God is a mad man (or woman). The only thing that can save you is to realize God is not other than you. So why would you do that to yourself??  I don't have an answer it's kinda of an open inquiry. 

 

On 1/21/2021 at 11:56 AM, xxxx said:

 In our human form, how exactly should heaven feel? The other thread, on happiness got me thinking about this possibility. Can the feeling of heaven be eternal? If it’s all so mental — what’s stopping us? 

No it's not all mental.

  This isn't rocket science.. You can't have "eternal" happiness because everything is constantly changing hence impermanence. It really does boil down to just that. 

On 1/21/2021 at 11:56 AM, xxxx said:

Is heaven the transcendence of the ego, or a dwelling in the ego? For you cannot feel anything outside your ego — and states of happiness and bliss are felt. 

This assumes there is such thing as an "ego "in the first place.

But regardless... Do you mean whether it's acting selfish or selfless??  Why should those two factors be the primary deciding factors???? Why you don't take into consideration infinite other variables in the equation? You see the mind wants to simplify everything into simple categories. Doesn't want to face infinite complexity. 

On 1/21/2021 at 11:56 AM, xxxx said:

In the case of the aforementioned scenarios regarding the mental states— is hell is a permanent state of being (our lives being deeply rooted in survival), with heaven just a temporary state, with a lot of limits? 

Again heaven and hell are not objects. They are subjectively defined by you. 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Someone here

[zeroISinfinity]

On 22.1.2021. at 9:15 PM, Valwyndir said:

This is the best explanation I've heard.

Thank you. I actually agree. Bandana added to dreamboard. 

Brilliance +9

Edited January 24, 2021 by zeroISinfinity

[zeroISinfinity]

Started lacking intelligence. Silly me. Add that chick to dreamboard! 

Now we are fine again. 

Intelligence +285 long way to go 615/999 

[Vibroverse]

Heaven and hell are here and now since it is all there is.