Posted January 21, 2021 12 hours ago, Gesundheit said: Of course, but that's not the point of this thread. OP is inquiring the stances we have on ideology. Trying to be non-ideological is itself a form of unwillingness to see other world views because it holds firmly only the idea of being non-ideological to be true, when in fact, it isn't. Rather, it's just a non-ideological ideology that does not allow any other ideologies but itself, which is exactly what all ideologies do, and how all them are. Hinduism does not allow any other religion or worldview to exist unless it is in accordance with its rules and a priori. And so are all other ideologies. There is nothing different or special about this, because ideology is inherent in humans who are capable of thinking, and therefore inevitable. I would even argue that it exists in the DNA of all beings, or even more fundamental than that, it exists in the core of all things. But that's too far from here, and apparently even Leo is not ready to hear that, so let's keep it simple and focused. You can let go of all of that then you are free from ideology. Whatever the mind comes up with let go and dont attach to it then you are free. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21, 2021 29 minutes ago, andyjohnsonman said: You can let go of all of that then you are free from ideology. Whatever the mind comes up with let go and dont attach to it then you are free. I can let go and detach, and I can also hold on and attach. Both options have always been the case and anyone can choose between either of them because freedom is inherent in reality, not because of lack of ideology. The only difference here is that the freedom will be recognized after that realization instead of being unacknowledged. Non-ideological ideology can help us recognize the already present freedom, but it does not give it to us. Notice that in letting go and detaching yourself from ideology, you won't be able to have an ideology (I mean another ideology next to the one applied), which makes you limited in actuality to freedom. You will become a slave who chooses to wear his cuffs thinking that you're actually free, when in fact, you simply traded one pair of cuffs for another and thought that you've bought freedom. You think that now you finally have the freedom to choose? Well, you've been tricked. “If you have no confidence in yourself, you are twice defeated in the race of life. But with confidence you have won, even before you start.” -- Marcus Garvey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21, 2021 On 1/19/2021 at 5:44 PM, SS10 said: QQ Guys; I often here in Leos videos that one of the main traps is being ideological and that we should avoid ideology at all costs... Is claiming or insisting that you should have no ideology what so ever an ideology in of itself? Kind of like the sceptic not being sceptical of their on sceptism. Maybe im reaching..idk. Let me know your thoughts.... What is it which you are focusing upon, honestly? Focus upon non-pink elephant. MEDITATIONS TOOLS ActualityOfBeing.com GUIDANCE SESSIONS NONDUALITY LOA My Youtube Channel THE TRUE NATURE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21, 2021 34 minutes ago, Gesundheit said: Both options have always been the case and anyone can choose between either of them because freedom is inherent in reality, not because of lack of ideology. Yep youre free to choose which one you like however one will lead to freedom and non ideological thinking the other will keep you stuck. 36 minutes ago, Gesundheit said: which makes you limited in actuality to freedom This gives you complete freedom to move in and out of any ideologies. The thinking mind wont get you there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) 37 minutes ago, andyjohnsonman said: Yep youre free to choose which one you like however one will lead to freedom and non ideological thinking the other will keep you stuck. Freedom from what? And stuck where? These are relative concepts that assume an end goal. So it depends on the goals I have set for myself, and it can be simply my choice to not have a goal and be either ideological or non-ideological, nevertheless. And that would not make me stuck, because there'd be nowhere else I'd want to be. You see? 37 minutes ago, andyjohnsonman said: This gives you complete freedom to move in and out of any ideologies. The thinking mind wont get you there. How is that working for you? I am trying to get some point across, but your thinking mind is not getting it. It doesn't seem to me like you have the complete freedom you're talking about. It seems you're "stuck" in some "non-ideological" position which is preventing the understanding I'm offering. Edited January 21, 2021 by Gesundheit “If you have no confidence in yourself, you are twice defeated in the race of life. But with confidence you have won, even before you start.” -- Marcus Garvey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) . Edited January 21, 2021 by andyjohnsonman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21, 2021 35 minutes ago, Gesundheit said: Freedom from what? Well we were talking about ideology so it would be freedom from that. 35 minutes ago, Gesundheit said: So it depends on the goals Exactly if you dont want to be free from it then choose not to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Gesundheit said: It doesn't seem to me like you have the complete freedom you're talking about. How would you know that? Actually I can see your point of view I am just providing an alternative. Plus I never said I embodied it we were talking about what is possible. Edited January 21, 2021 by andyjohnsonman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21, 2021 I had a thought today: "How confused was Plato?", then I read the comments here and realized that we haven't gotten very far afterall Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) 47 minutes ago, andyjohnsonman said: . Cool! 45 minutes ago, andyjohnsonman said: Well we were talking about ideology so it would be freedom from that. And what's a goal but an idea? In a sense, a goal is an imaginary prison that we inhabit until we break out of, and realize it was illusory. So if your goal is freedom, then good luck with that lol. 45 minutes ago, andyjohnsonman said: Exactly if you dont want to be free from it then choose not to. And I'll be free either way, no credits whatsoever to the whole no-ideology thing. 42 minutes ago, andyjohnsonman said: How would you know that? Actually I can see your point of view I am just providing an alternative. I didn't say I knew, I said it doesn't seem. I generally pick up intuitive clues and glue them together and they make my assessments. Again, I don't feel like you actually do. Because I actually am already familiar with everything you are saying cuz I've been following actualized.org for almost 5 years. And now I am proposing a new perspective that even Leo does not seem to have. So you're not really providing an alternative for me, you're actually just repeating what I have been applying in the past few years. Edited January 21, 2021 by Gesundheit “If you have no confidence in yourself, you are twice defeated in the race of life. But with confidence you have won, even before you start.” -- Marcus Garvey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21, 2021 36 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said: I had a thought today: "How confused was Plato?", then I read the comments here and realized that we haven't gotten very far afterall Perhaps we don't have the right ideology. “If you have no confidence in yourself, you are twice defeated in the race of life. But with confidence you have won, even before you start.” -- Marcus Garvey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21, 2021 It seems you are following a similar trajectory to Tim Freke, he also started to think in this way recently. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Gesundheit said: Perhaps we don't have the right ideology. What happens when you stop thinking? Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
