Posted January 19, 2021 QQ Guys; I often here in Leos videos that one of the main traps is being ideological and that we should avoid ideology at all costs... Is claiming or insisting that you should have no ideology what so ever an ideology in of itself? Kind of like the sceptic not being sceptical of their on sceptism. Maybe im reaching..idk. Let me know your thoughts.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20, 2021 Yep. It is an ideology. This shows the limited nature of language. The truth is that ideology is inevitable in the human condition. You can't be a sane human without thinking. Thoughts = ideas = ideology. “If you have no confidence in yourself, you are twice defeated in the race of life. But with confidence you have won, even before you start.” -- Marcus Garvey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20, 2021 12 hours ago, SS10 said: QQ Guys; I often here in Leos videos that one of the main traps is being ideological and that we should avoid ideology at all costs... Is claiming or insisting that you should have no ideology what so ever an ideology in of itself? Kind of like the sceptic not being sceptical of their on sceptism. Maybe im reaching..idk. Let me know your thoughts.... He also said "Dont become ideological about not being ideological" Dont look at me! Look inside! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20, 2021 If you were actually non-ideological, that would not be an ideology. But you'd have to actually do it, not just think or talk about it. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20, 2021 2 hours ago, Leo Gura said: If you were actually non-ideological, that would not be an ideology. But you'd have to actually do it, not just think or talk about it. Not possible If you are non-ideological, you must be maintaining a non-ideological identity, which is an ideology. You can't escape ideology because you can't escape metaphysics. “If you have no confidence in yourself, you are twice defeated in the race of life. But with confidence you have won, even before you start.” -- Marcus Garvey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20, 2021 48 minutes ago, Gesundheit said: Not possible It is possible to be non-ideological. Stop thinking about it and do it. ACTUALLY do it. Ask yourself, "What would it take for me to actually be non-ideological?" Not in theory, but in practice. And then do that. See how it feels. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20, 2021 35 minutes ago, Gesundheit said: If you are non-ideological, you must be maintaining a non-ideological identity, which is an ideology. Why? Where do you get that logic from? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 20, 2021 22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: It is possible to be non-ideological. Stop thinking about it and do it. ACTUALLY do it. Ask yourself, "What would it take for me to actually be non-ideological?" Not in theory, but in practice. And then do that. See how it feels. I am doing it right here, but you're telling me that I'm not. I am denying the ideas you're suggesting so that I can stay aware and non-ideological, but that in and of itself is just my ideology. I value awareness in the present moment over thinking about past/future. Then again, this value discernment is my enlightenment ideology. “If you have no confidence in yourself, you are twice defeated in the race of life. But with confidence you have won, even before you start.” -- Marcus Garvey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21, 2021 @Gesundheit If you insist on being dense, I won't interfere. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21, 2021 1 hour ago, peanutspathtotruth said: Why? Because an ideology is a system of ideas and ideals. And these things are not possible without an identity/mind that maintains them. A system is maintained by identification, simply because otherwise it would dissolve and not be a system anymore and rather a chaotic mess, which is the whole point of ideology, is to maintain the human identity through the sneakiest ways possible and then deny that it has anything to do with that. Self-deception 101. Denial will not make what I said any less true. Whatever angle you look at it, this is the case, and it cannot be otherwise. “If you have no confidence in yourself, you are twice defeated in the race of life. But with confidence you have won, even before you start.” -- Marcus Garvey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21, 2021 33 minutes ago, Gesundheit said: Because an ideology is a system of ideas and ideals. And these things are not possible without an identity/mind that maintains them. A system is maintained by identification, simply because otherwise it would dissolve and not be a system anymore and rather a chaotic mess, which is the whole point of ideology, is to maintain the human identity through the sneakiest ways possible and then deny that it has anything to do with that. Self-deception 101. Denial will not make what I said any less true. Whatever angle you look at it, this is the case, and it cannot be otherwise. What you say makes sense but doesn't prove in the slightest that no ideology = an ideology. It's like saying when there is no apple here, that is still an apple being here, a no-apple. No. In silence, there is not even the idea of ideology or no ideology. It's actually pretty simple, I don't get the rambling to be honest. But no reason to argue, I was just curious what your reasoning is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21, 2021 1 minute ago, peanutspathtotruth said: In silence, there is not even the idea of ideology or no ideology. It's actually pretty simple. It's not simple except your silence ideology. You think that silence is not an ideology? Well, then, think twice. Anyone can use the same logic and apply it to their ideologies, but that doesn't make anyone non-ideological, or in any lesser degree. I could say that the act of murder is not an ideology. In murder, there is not even the idea of murder or no murder. It's actually pretty simple. I don't get the rambling to be honest. What you're basically saying here is that you can think without thoughts. Well, that'd be some next generation alien technology that I'm not really interested in. “If you have no confidence in yourself, you are twice defeated in the race of life. But with confidence you have won, even before you start.” -- Marcus Garvey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) 16 hours ago, Gesundheit said: Thoughts = ideas = ideology. An ideology is more than just this. Its the inability to be to able move from the stance of the thoughts and ideas. It's an unwillingness to see other world views and hold firmly only this idea to be true. Edited January 21, 2021 by andyjohnsonman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21, 2021 1 hour ago, andyjohnsonman said: An ideology is more than just this. Its the inability to be to able move from the stance of the thoughts and ideas. It's an unwillingness to see other world views and hold firmly only this idea to be true. Of course, but that's not the point of this thread. OP is inquiring the stances we have on ideology. Trying to be non-ideological is itself a form of unwillingness to see other world views because it holds firmly only the idea of being non-ideological to be true, when in fact, it isn't. Rather, it's just a non-ideological ideology that does not allow any other ideologies but itself, which is exactly what all ideologies do, and how all them are. Hinduism does not allow any other religion or worldview to exist unless it is in accordance with its rules and a priori. And so are all other ideologies. There is nothing different or special about this, because ideology is inherent in humans who are capable of thinking, and therefore inevitable. I would even argue that it exists in the DNA of all beings, or even more fundamental than that, it exists in the core of all things. But that's too far from here, and apparently even Leo is not ready to hear that, so let's keep it simple and focused. “If you have no confidence in yourself, you are twice defeated in the race of life. But with confidence you have won, even before you start.” -- Marcus Garvey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21, 2021 8 hours ago, Gesundheit said: It's not simple except your silence ideology. You think that silence is not an ideology? Well, then, think twice. Anyone can use the same logic and apply it to their ideologies, but that doesn't make anyone non-ideological, or in any lesser degree. No that's what you're adding out of nowhere here, when I say silence I point towards an absence of something - and even that definition is again just a word, which is not what I mean. You just argue about it, I point to direct experience. Sorry but direct experience is more coherent than your insistence on everything being an ideology. 8 hours ago, Gesundheit said: What you're basically saying here is that you can think without thoughts. Well, that'd be some next generation alien technology that I'm not really interested in. No, that's not at all what I'm saying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21, 2021 1 minute ago, peanutspathtotruth said: No that's what you're adding out of nowhere here, when I say silence I point towards an absence of something. That's complete delusion. How do you distinguish between silence and sound? “If you have no confidence in yourself, you are twice defeated in the race of life. But with confidence you have won, even before you start.” -- Marcus Garvey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, Gesundheit said: That's complete delusion. How do you distinguish between silence and sound? Sorry, no interest in arguing with you about something that has nothing to do with what was originally said. Good day to you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21, 2021 2 hours ago, peanutspathtotruth said: Sorry, no interest in arguing with you about something that has nothing to do with what was originally said. It has everything to do with it, but honestly you're closed-minded. “If you have no confidence in yourself, you are twice defeated in the race of life. But with confidence you have won, even before you start.” -- Marcus Garvey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gesundheit said: It has everything to do with it, but honestly you're closed-minded. All you're doing on this forum is telling people that they're wrong and that they're closed-minded, until they tell you you're of course right. You're offensive and you try to win arguments where the other side didn't ask for it. I told you I'm not interested to argue with you, just let it be. I've been here a few years and I've seen how it goes with you. I won't reply to you again, a normal conversation with you is not possible without hostility. Nobody is trying to hurt you. All the best. Edited January 21, 2021 by peanutspathtotruth Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21, 2021 @peanutspathtotruth What I said was not hostile. None of it was. I said that you are closed-minded, and that's correct because you're not entertaining the question that I proposed, and moreover you turned this into a personal issue when it wasn't and said that I was rambling and arguing when I'm actually being very serious with this discussion. You started the discussion with me with a question, and I replied to it without any offence to your person even though your intentions were obvious. I have enough emotional maturity to separate the person from the discussion. Show me one example of me being offensive to you here. These accusations are false and I deny them entirely, and in fact I should report you to the mods, but I won't cuz I'm not offended yet. It's absolutely not my problem if someone identifies themselves as ideas and feel offended if someone attacks the ideas, because here all we do is deconstruct ideas. And btw, that's basically what ideologues are about. They feel threatened by the questioning of their narratives and ideologies. I personally don't put any ideas on a pedestal. Everything is to be questioned, and if you can't handle it, then at least remain silent instead of preaching and projecting. And just because you disagree with me, does not make your opinions more correct. You can express your opinions without accusing other persons. And you would do a lot better if you would forget the history you have in your mind of someone and read what they say objectively as if it's your first time reading from them. I may have used a somewhat offensive language in other threads, but most of it is to grab attention, not to attack people, contrary to what you're doing here. Regardless of whether the history you have of others is correct or not, it creates biases, such as this one here. And you end up wasting your time and my time and everyone's time with something that is actually your work to do but you didn't do it for whatever reasons, and it manifested in this conversation. “If you have no confidence in yourself, you are twice defeated in the race of life. But with confidence you have won, even before you start.” -- Marcus Garvey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
