Reverse racism

[How to be wise]

It’s a fact.

 

[Dryas]

Just regular racism ?

[Preety_India]

Oh boy. 

No comparison to how racism actually feels. 

The whole concept of reverse racism either undermines real racism or just ridicules it. 

Is this comparison supposed to make racists feel better about racism or is it supposed to make victims of racism feel less validated? 

It reminds me of the situation where men talk about male rape and use that as a comparison to rape of women. 

Such videos and whatever they imply are the biggest examples of false equivalency. 

A white dude is not going to feel inferior in an African tribe. End of the story. Because guess what, universal culture has already assumed that he is superior and he is well aware of it. 

An African can feel inferior among a bunch of Trumpists. 

You're comparing apples with oranges here. 

 

[Preety_India]

To be honest, videos like these really make me angry because they undermine the struggles of millions of people. 

It's like rubbing salt into wounds..

Its only a non black person who would be interested in such videos or concepts. 

Because they have never tried walking in the shoes of black people. So much easier to simply throw around assumptions of what racism is.. 

At this point it feels like the best option is to scream "try being Black in America " to really create awareness on the subject. 

Put such videos on Twitter. 

 

[SgtPepper]

Yeah, no doubt it exists. 

 

 

[w4read]

On 19.1.2021 at 11:32 PM, Preety_India said:

Oh boy. 

No comparison to how racism actually feels. 

The whole concept of reverse racism either undermines real racism or just ridicules it. 

Is this comparison supposed to make racists feel better about racism or is it supposed to make victims of racism feel less validated? 

It reminds me of the situation where men talk about male rape and use that as a comparison to rape of women. 

Such videos and whatever they imply are the biggest examples of false equivalency. 

A white dude is not going to feel inferior in an African tribe. End of the story. Because guess what, universal culture has already assumed that he is superior and he is well aware of it. 

An African can feel inferior among a bunch of Trumpists. 

You're comparing apples with oranges here.

This one is kinda tricky I think.. I mean, in a sense you are right. So called reverse racism will never be at the same level of the real racism faced by black people in places like the US and Europe. But does this mean that one can never bring up the subject of "reverse racism"? Will it always be seen as this joke that is trying to neglect the real racism out there? Or could it just be considered as what it is, not nescessarily being compared to anything? 

[Preety_India]

@w4read  it should be discussed only when it becomes relevant enough to be discussed. 

Right now it's racism which is the biggest issue. 

 

[Michal__]

Racism = discrimination against a different race.

Doesn't matter if it's black, yellow, white or blue lol.

There's nothing "reverse" about this.

[w4read]

7 hours ago, Preety_India said:

 it should be discussed only when it becomes relevant enough to be discussed.

But is relevance what it is about though? I get the feeling that it's not about that but rather how speaking about the subject gets interpreted. As you said yourself, you got angry because it undermined the real racism. But does it have to be this way? Does it need to be interpreted that way?

I mean, I can talk about certain male issues that I face without that being looked upon as not recognizing womens issues. Even though their issues probably exceeds mine. It doesn't need to be compared to anything. Just being explored by it's own.

[Preety_India]

1 hour ago, w4read said:

But is relevance what it is about though? I get the feeling that it's not about that but rather how speaking about the subject gets interpreted. As you said yourself, you got angry because it undermined the real racism. But does it have to be this way? Does it need to be interpreted that way?

I mean, I can talk about certain male issues that I face without that being looked upon as not recognizing womens issues. Even though their issues probably exceeds mine. It doesn't need to be compared to anything. Just being explored by it's own.

The problem is that most people who upload such videos or state such issues actually do it with the intention to undermine actual issues. Very rarely is it with the genuine intent to focus on the problem they describe. 

For example, it would have looked more genuine if the person at the beginning of such presentation said something like "hey I understand real racism is very bad and much worse and I'm not trying to undermine that, I just wanted to bring focus to a minor issue, but this in no way should be interpreted as a downplaying of regular real racism", now if that person had said something like that, then it can be appreciate, but the way such things are presented it almost appears like a parody or trolling or mockery of bigger issues. 

 

[w4read]

1 hour ago, Preety_India said:

The problem is that most people who upload such videos or state such issues actually do it with the intention to undermine actual issues. Very rarely is it with the genuine intent to focus on the problem they describe. 

For example, it would have looked more genuine if the person at the beginning of such presentation said something like "hey I understand real racism is very bad and much worse and I'm not trying to undermine that, I just wanted to bring focus to a minor issue, but this in no way should be interpreted as a downplaying of regular real racism", now if that person had said something like that, then it can be appreciate, but the way such things are presented it almost appears like a parody or trolling or mockery of bigger issues.

I understand the reaction. And to some extent it feels a bit off for me too. He acknowledge in the video that Africa is an amazing continent and that racism happens on other continents as well, but the way he says it makes them look more equal then they actually are, and that's misleading I think. 

So I have no problem understanding why it can get interpreted the way it does. The question is "does it have to?"

If we look at it from a broader perspective it may be that there are lessons to be learn from all forms of racism. Maybe it is the case that racism both ways fuel eachother and make different races even more devided than they had to be? 

I'm not saying that this is the case, but if we couldn't entertain ideas like this without interpreting it as putting one against the other, then we would never be able to explore such things.

So I'm basically just questioning if this is something that holds us away from truth in that it hinder us in exploring certain aspects of racism that could be a part of a solution. 

Edited January 21, 2021 by w4read

[Forestluv]

@w4read Be mindful of subconsciously accepting underlying assumptions. This limits the mind from broader perspectives and more holistic awareness and understanding.

From one perspective, this is tourist porn. A wealthy tourist voyeurs people suffering in poverty and feels victimized when they approach him for money. He then films them for a mini documentary on his tourism YT channel without their consent, plays victim, gets millions of views and profits off them - and keeps all the profits. That is a form of exploitation.

By assuming the author’s framing that he is a victim of racism, it cuts off seeing and understanding other perspectives. 
 

11 hours ago, Michal__ said:

Racism = discrimination against a different race.

Doesn't matter if it's black, yellow, white or blue lol.

There's nothing "reverse" about this.

Yet there are nuances within racism. Imagine that we create a city in which there is racism against black people such that white people are wealthy in nice neighborhoods and black are poor in rundown neighborhoods. That is one for of racism. Now imagine when a wealthy white person enters a poor black area and a black person thinks “a white person. I’m going to ask him for money”. Technically, that is a form of racism, yet it would be myopic to say that these two forms of racism are the same. 

And in some cases, the impacts of racism is very asymmetric. Imagine that 99% of racism was negatively impacted one race and only 1% of racism negatively impacted the other race. At an individual level, it’s equally racism. Yet at the population level it is asymmetric and not equal.  . . It would be similar to saying “rape is rape, whether a woman or man is raped”. This is fair to say at an individual level, yet not at a population level since many more woman are raped than men.

 

[mandyjw]

His experience has little to nothing to do with racism. If you go to NYC, or any other tourist spot like that, lots of people will try to rip you off if you look like a tourist. Cab drivers will take you the long route around the city because they can get away with it, etc. It's the same premise, and has nothing to do with skin color. 

Edited January 21, 2021 by mandyjw

[Michal__]

2 hours ago, Forestluv said:

@w4read 

Yet there are nuances within racism. Imagine that we create a city in which there is racism against black people such that white people are wealthy in nice neighborhoods and black are poor in rundown neighborhoods. That is one for of racism. Now imagine when a wealthy white person enters a poor black area and a black person thinks “a white person. I’m going to ask him for money”. Technically, that is a form of racism, yet it would be myopic to say that these two forms of racism are the same. 

And in some cases, the impacts of racism is very asymmetric. Imagine that 99% of racism was negatively impacted one race and only 1% of racism negatively impacted the other race. At an individual level, it’s equally racism. Yet at the population level it is asymmetric and not equal.  . . It would be similar to saying “rape is rape, whether a woman or man is raped”. This is fair to say at an individual level, yet not at a population level since many more woman are raped than men.

 

I agree. Racism against black people is obviously way more prevalent right now.

I just think the term "reverse racism" is ridiculous & on the individual level racism is the same thing regardless of race.

[w4read]

2 hours ago, Forestluv said:

Be mindful of subconsciously accepting underlying assumptions. This limits the mind from broader perspectives and more holistic awareness and understanding.

From one perspective, this is tourist porn. A wealthy tourist voyeurs people suffering in poverty and feels victimized when they approach him for money. He then films them for a mini documentary on his tourism YT channel without their consent, plays victim, gets millions of views and profits off them - and keeps all the profits. That is a form of exploitation.

By assuming the author’s framing that he is a victim of racism, it cuts off seeing and understanding other perspectives.

@Forestluv Thanks for the feedback. I wasn't paying enough attention to the particular circumstances here. In a sense this seems ridiculous and it makes even more sense that @Preety_India reacted the way she did. My approach here was to try to make no assumption at all and just entertain ideas. I've had the feeling for a long time now that this is a subject where there is not really room to discuss opposite views because they often get interpreted as dismissing the real racism. Maybe the concept of reverse racism is ridiculous and doesn't even exist. What do you think? Is it just a myth? 

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, w4read said:

Maybe the concept of reverse racism is ridiculous and doesn't even exist. What do you think? Is it just a myth? 

I think racism is complex and nuanced. There are many ways to view and experience it. 

If by "reverse racism" one is referring to bidirectional racism, I would say yes it exists. I would push it further and say it is multi-directional. I think the movie "Crash" did a good job at showing some complexities of various forms of discrimination and separation as well as unity. These complexities can exist within a population as well as an individual.  
 

As an example, today I divided students into different biology lab sections. I didn’t want to put all the men in one section, all the students of color in one section and all the white students in one section. I want there to be a mix in each section. I suppose I could have found a program to randomize the students, yet it could still be unbalanced, especially with small sections. So I divided students up based on gender and race so there was a good mix. I suppose this is technically racism, since race was a factor - yet the intention was to create a mixed group which is better dynamics. 

[Preety_India]

Racism does exist in multidimensional ways. 

For example I've faced Racism as an Asian in America from both white people and black people. 

But the racism that I faced as an Asian is no comparison to the racism faced by black people. 

My ex boyfriend used to constantly say things like "you are a nerd" or "you must be good at math" or "you are too intelligent". 

He even gave me a nickname called "Algorithm." he thought I was into some software job like most Indians in America. 

I mean he was right about me being good at school and in my subjects, but I didn't want to be stereotyped that way.. 

Plus the poverty stereotype. He would constantly make me feel I couldn't afford anything or be surprised if I were to buy something expensive. As if I didn't deserve it. 

His expressions would imply something like "oh now even Indians can have this." 

Plus he would constantly separate me from other Asians. Trying to make it look like other Asians, Chinese and others were kinda high class and Indians are low class. 

He would never want to call me an Asian when I'm born in the Asian continent. 

His constant insinuations to refer to me as a separate Asian would make me very uncomfortable. 

Because I don't see myself as any different from anyone who is from Thailand or Vietnam or China. All of these countries are in Asia along with India. 

I understand the differences in looks. But does that need to be highlighted every time? 

What if I said to a Mexican born in America, "you're not a westerner, because you don't look like one or you're not an American." same way. 

It's kinda hurtful when you are not even referred to where you belong from and where your ancestors have lived for centuries. 

If I have to be very honest, much of racism actually comes from white people. This is just a sad truth. Europeans and American (white Americans) especially. It's pretty strong with these folks. They have a stunning sense of superiority which is abhorrent. 

I wasn't made to feel like I'm Indian or "something different or low class" when I interacted with Black people, people from Arab countries or Latinos. Then why only whites? 

Racism is disgusting and such attitudes are internalized by young children. 

I understand the problem of identity and referring to someone from a specific culture or country and there's no problem with calling someone Black or Asian or Latino. But give respect. Don't have these connotations to racial identities 

For example if you want to call me an Indian because you respect me as an Indian then fine. 

But if you want to constantly remind me that I'm an Indian only to make me feel like I'm from a poor place or something inferior about me or superior about me. No thanks I don't want that. 

Once you realize that a person is constantly referring to your race (references while introducing someone's identity is fine) then you know where they're trying to go with that. 

With Apartheid and slavery behind humanity, new forms of racism have emerged. Identity based racism. Stereotype based racism. Subtle forms of racism that are not noticeable at first but if you read between the lines, you slowly realize what that other person is thinking during a conversation. 

To be frank, much of racism is actually faced by colored people, all non white people on a much larger scale than any other group. 

It's almost like this world is divided into 2 large groups of whites and non whites. 

So if a white man complains about racism, it's kinda funny and ironic. 

Because he can never relate to the experience of being a non white 

 

[Akira]

34 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Racism does exist in multidimensional ways. 

For example I've faced Racism as an Asian in America from both white people and black people. 

But the racism that I faced as an Asian is no comparison to the racism faced by black people. 

My ex boyfriend used to constantly say things like "you are a nerd" or "you must be good at math" or "you are too intelligent". 

He even gave me a nickname called "Algorithm." he thought I was into some software job like most Indians in America. 

I mean he was right about me being good at school and in my subjects, but I didn't want to be stereotyped that way.. 

Plus the poverty stereotype. He would constantly make me feel I couldn't afford anything or be surprised if I were to buy something expensive. As if I didn't deserve it. 

His expressions would imply something like "oh now even Indians can have this." 

Plus he would constantly separate me from other Asians. Trying to make it look like other Asians, Chinese and others were kinda high class and Indians are low class. 

He would never want to call me an Asian when I'm born in the Asian continent. 

His constant insinuations to refer to me as a separate Asian would make me very uncomfortable. 

Because I don't see myself as any different from anyone who is from Thailand or Vietnam or China. All of these countries are in Asia along with India. 

I understand the differences in looks. But does that need to be highlighted every time? 

What if I said to a Mexican born in America, "you're not a westerner, because you don't look like one or you're not an American." same way. 

It's kinda hurtful when you are not even referred to where you belong from and where your ancestors have lived for centuries. 

If I have to be very honest, much of racism actually comes from white people. This is just a sad truth. Europeans and American (white Americans) especially. It's pretty strong with these folks. They have a stunning sense of superiority which is abhorrent. 

I wasn't made to feel like I'm Indian or "something different or low class" when I interacted with Black people, people from Arab countries or Latinos. Then why only whites? 

Racism is disgusting and such attitudes are internalized by young children. 

I understand the problem of identity and referring to someone from a specific culture or country and there's no problem with calling someone Black or Asian or Latino. But give respect. Don't have these connotations to racial identities 

For example if you want to call me an Indian because you respect me as an Indian then fine. 

But if you want to constantly remind me that I'm an Indian only to make me feel like I'm from a poor place or something inferior about me or superior about me. No thanks I don't want that. 

Once you realize that a person is constantly referring to your race (references while introducing someone's identity is fine) then you know where they're trying to go with that. 

With Apartheid and slavery behind humanity, new forms of racism have emerged. Identity based racism. Stereotype based racism. Subtle forms of racism that are not noticeable at first but if you read between the lines, you slowly realize what that other person is thinking during a conversation. 

To be frank, much of racism is actually faced by colored people, all non white people on a much larger scale than any other group. 

It's almost like this world is divided into 2 large groups of whites and non whites. 

So if a white man complains about racism, it's kinda funny and ironic. 

Because he can never relate to the experience of being a non white 

 

Yeah!

White men should just shut up! We should sneer at and hold in contempt any white man who points out any indignity directed at him whilst simultaneously extoling all individuals in other groups who point out similar indignities directed at them. Because a white man could never understand being on the receiving end of unequal treatment or bigotry. 

He should simply accept his role as racist misogynistic exploiter of brown people even if he is a homeless heroin addict. He could never relate to my suffering as a non white

Edited January 22, 2021 by Akira

[How to be wise]

@Preety_India Jesus Christ. You’ve gone through a lot.

In the UK, we are extra careful not to offend people of other races. Even a small joke will land us in a world of trouble. I think it’s the same for Canada. Perhaps you should consider moving.

[Preety_India]

@How to be wise yea in America it's pretty bad. Very outright overt public racism. It's like in your face racism. 

Maybe in the UK it's better.. I like Canadians though 

Many Canadians I met weren't racist 

I can see why Indians love Canada.