Understanding Pick Up

[Lyubov]

I think the greatest way to understand pick up is to think less and feel more. Too many mental models to fall into. 

[mmKay]

@soos_mite_ah binge watch all of their videos, specifically from james marshall

Then you may narrow down your concept of what practicing pick up and attraction is. 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, mmKay said:

@soos_mite_ah binge watch all of their videos, specifically from james marshall

 

Good stuff

[StarStruck]

2 hours ago, mmKay said:

@soos_mite_ah binge watch all of their videos, specifically from james marshall

Then you may narrow down your concept of what practicing pick up and attraction is. 

I did his program. It is no nonsense and very good. Much better than that RSD crap.

[mmKay]

@StarStruck cool, i met them in barcelona. Was it worth the 10k? 

[7thLetter]

@soos_mite_ah You make some pretty good points, its nice to hear a female's perspective on this.

I don't think the main problem is the act of pickup per se, but the main problem is this "Red Pill" mentality that is often taught within the pickup community. What you just described in this thread is the behavior of guys who adopt and act on these Red Pill teachings.

The act of pickup has been popularized by RSD I would say, and RSD teaches/taught Red Pill. I'm sure there's also other popular Youtube pickup channels that guys follow and they all have the same thing in common, they all teach Red Pill. Another Youtube channel like this I can think of is "Stephiscold."

So there's the problem, guys find out about pickup through the internet and adopt and implement what they've been taught from these teachers, Red Pill.

Here's another perspective for you to think about, after reading this maybe instead of being triggered you can empathize with these men:

Most of the guys who do pickup are guys who are just broken on the inside. Maybe they've never been loved before, never had a girlfriend, or they've recently dealt with a painful breakup. So these guys who get into pickup are mainly motivated to do it because of some sort of trauma or lack of love and/or self-love. While deep down most men are wired to desire a meaningful connection with a woman, pickup doesn't teach how to get this connection with a woman and turns men into a piece of shit. It only teaches men how to get laid. So men coming into pickup might have the intention to find a meaningful connection in the beginning, but once you become a part of the pickup community, these Red Pill ideas snowball and get to you. You have other PUA's reinforcing these ideas to you, you have the teachers talking about these ideas, and you have all the videos you watch, etc. Plus the act of pickup itself requires a trial and error approach. You have to approach so many girls to get good. You talk about having a less aggressive and healthy approach to talking to women, but after so many failed attempts and frustrations it can lead to the aggressive approach. And this is an important point I want to make, women are so difficult that men have created an entire fucking cult around women attraction. Essentially women as a collective has indirectly created the act of pickup and the Red Pill cult whether they realize it or not. No not just because women are hot and men are horny, its because women are fucking difficult. Dating or getting women in general is a struggle for most men so they resort to pickup or rape or kidnapping. This same idea can also be used to justify and understand all the other "bad" behaviors in the world. Theft? Well its mainly created by poverty, wanting something quick, and the fact that money doesn't come easy for them.

So you need to understand the bigger picture here. You're basically judging these men for being a piece of shit while there's much bigger problems behind it. The reason I personally got into pickup back then, was because dating was (and is still) hard for me, I've never had a girlfriend. I just had a strong craving for love and intimacy. I was and am just a broken man, its painful not having someone to be there to care for you and love you. To talk to and share your life with.

And yes I do understand you're talking about the aggressive approach and how men need to have a healthy approach to pickup, but just understand that there's much bigger issues at play here. Hypothetically speaking, in order to solve this entire problem you need to fix a whole lot. Its not as simple as just judging them for being aggressive and woohoo everything is magically fixed.

Edited January 19, 2021 by 7thLetter

[Preety_India]

 

Women don't owe you sex. It's an entitled thinking that women should be held responsible for not giving enough sex to enough men and then the justification of aggressive behavior towards them including rape or hate directed at women for not getting what you think you deserve from them. 

 

[Abdelghafar]

5 hours ago, mmKay said:

@soos_mite_ah binge watch all of their videos, specifically from james marshall

Then you may narrow down your concept of what practicing pick up and attraction is. 

Interesting advice.

[7thLetter]

33 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

 

Women don't owe you sex. It's an entitled thinking that women should be held responsible for not giving enough sex to enough men and then the justification of aggressive behavior towards them including rape or hate directed at women for not getting what you think you deserve from them. 

 

@Preety_India You didn't tag me but sounds like this is a reply to my previous post.

And that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that by their very own existence and nature, they're indirectly creating a much larger issue. Not that they owe men anything.

Let's use another example and apply this type of thinking to money. With the very existence of money and the fact that money doesn't come easy for most, money indirectly creates all sorts of crime. Scamming, creation of drugs, theft, gang violence, etc. you name it. Not that people deserve to have this money or is entitled to it, its the mere fact that money itself exists.

Is money or women to blame here? No of course not. I'm just saying, with the existence of what people desire, must come the existence of undesirable results. So, to understand this means we must accept all the "evil" of this world because its a part of life and it exists for a good reason.

[SamC]

12 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

I think that phrase is a good way of describing self bias and self agenda. To a woman, it's more about the themes that it draws parallel to (predator vs prey, being dominated in a social setting, manipulation etc.). Again, I'm not trying to disagree, I'm just trying to explain our perception is coming from and what is shaping it. I guess the other thing with women is that the decent guys don't approach as often and it usually the loudest, most obnoxious individuals that end up getting the attention so we get this false sense of scarcity. Because if a guy never approaches me, I'm never going to know if it's because he is anxious or simply not interested. Instead it's the bold ones usually the creeps or fuck boys that approach and sometimes they do it in cringy or low conscious ways. 

@soos_mite_ah

Yeah exactly. Being exploited,used, manipulated and dominated in a social setting - which many girls connect with the patriarchy. This is the spiral dynamics green shadow - which hits back on orange, cause a lot of girls have been terrible hurt by men like this. ( not saying there doesn't exists problem with inequality, cause it sure does and it is something society has to find root solutions too.)

Or to put it in other words,  been objectified and under oppression by narcissistic guys who manipulate them and use them. That's from what I understand one of girl's main problem with pick up and I get it. 

What is important to pay attention to however is that catch is often used as a metaphor to ATTRACT a girl, not manipulate, oppress, dominate and hurt girls. Some guys will do it of corse, but that doesn't mean all guys see you as prey in that sense. Guys want you, that's why they approach you - than you either reject the guy or get attracted to the guy. There are terrible unconscious ways of pick up, but don't draw the conclusion that prey = dominate and manipulate girls in pick up. It can and is sometimes used that way, but many times It is not. Catch is often = attract and not dominate.

Note however, one could argue that the woman is the hunter and that guys are the fish swimming towards you. The asshole guys would in this metaphor be the shark pretending to be a nice high value fish, that thendo what sharks do. Lmao

Also become aware that being a creepy/cringy guy can just be a guy who is super needy, insecure and socially awkward, or to put it in the analogy a small baby fish which you girls don't want to catch. I have been cringy and social awkward with girls countless of times, but that doesn't mean I am creep. Just that I in that situation didn't knew how to go about hunting, aka attract the girl and project the things the girl wanted. This is something guys can learn though..

I'll say it again pick up exists so that guys can learn to be less creepy and socially awkward and instead attract girls if it is approached with high consciousness. The Pick up mentality doesn't have to mean to oppress girls 

[Preety_India]

10 minutes ago, 7thLetter said:

Is money or women to blame here? No of course not. I'm just saying, with the existence of what people desire, must come the existence of undesirable results. So, to understand this means we must accept all the "evil" of this world because its a part of life and it exists for a good reason.

You can't weed out social evil with that mentality.

Not wanting to attack you in any way. But trying to tell you how I'm lookin at your perspective 

You're having the "enable the abuse and enable the abuser" mentality. 

It won't work and creates a ton of misery. Look inside instead of looking outside. 

Social evils cause a ton of misery and it has been the constant endeavor of cultures to get rid of it. 

You're thinking from a very one sided way. You're not a victim of sexual assault so it's kinda cushy for you to dole out prerogatives like "evil is a part of life, deal with it", with this mentality every social evil has to be accepted and we might as well begin to live like animals and loot each other to survive. 

People have tirelessly worked to end or minimize child abuse, rape, human trafficking, violence, bullying, harassment, and the list goes on and on. 

You have no idea what you're implying here. You're basically invalidating the great efforts of people who worked relentlessly to clean up society and reduce large scale suffering.

Please reflect on whatever you said. Don't have such a passive approach to social evils. It might not matter so much to you because you're not a woman. 

But you have no clue how much fear the word rape or assault or aggression creates in the female mind. 

I don't even want to think the horrors of sexual crimes and the life long trauma that victims endure. 

So to sit there and say that it's compl a part of life and don't do anything about it, don't even shame it is absolutely unthinkable, either too ignorant of other's sufferings or simply not wanting to show even a drop of empathy for sufferers. 

Sorry but that was too much to take. Pure justification of rape on another level. 

Please think about it. 

Even if I were a man, I wouldn't want women to suffer such horror only because my dick needs some pleasure or because my heart needs some validation. 

Someone's deep suffering is not worth my pleasure. Should never be. 

 

[intotheblack]

I think the main issue and triggering thing about pickup is that people don't want to feel used and abused.  Since women are much more emotional in general, they are more prone to feeling that way.  whereas it's less likely that a man would feel he had been used for sex.  If only everyone were honest from the get go there would be a lot less hurt and misunderstandings. If both parties are like, wanting to have fun and have no strings attached sex then it's ok, but it all depends on the person and how self aware they are. 

But no it's not like that for the most part, it turns into lies and games from unconscious people.  And this type of pickup is the mainstream, and that's why it's so triggering - because it's associated with men using women for sex.  Nobody wants to feel they were tricked into something.

someone else said previously on another thread that pickup should take another name.  If people used the word 'conscious dating' rather than using the word 'pickup' it wouldn't cause people to close off in defence.

[Preety_India]

2 hours ago, 7thLetter said:

@soos_mite_ah You make some pretty good points, its nice to hear a female's perspective on this.

I don't think the main problem is the act of pickup per se, but the main problem is this "Red Pill" mentality that is often taught within the pickup community. What you just described in this thread is the behavior of guys who adopt and act on these Red Pill teachings.

The act of pickup has been popularized by RSD I would say, and RSD teaches/taught Red Pill. I'm sure there's also other popular Youtube pickup channels that guys follow and they all have the same thing in common, they all teach Red Pill. Another Youtube channel like this I can think of is "Stephiscold."

So there's the problem, guys find out about pickup through the internet and adopt and implement what they've been taught from these teachers, Red Pill.

Here's another perspective for you to think about, after reading this maybe instead of being triggered you can empathize with these men:

Most of the guys who do pickup are guys who are just broken on the inside. Maybe they've never been loved before, never had a girlfriend, or they've recently dealt with a painful breakup. So these guys who get into pickup are mainly motivated to do it because of some sort of trauma or lack of love and/or self-love. While deep down most men are wired to desire a meaningful connection with a woman, pickup doesn't teach how to get this connection with a woman and turns men into a piece of shit. It only teaches men how to get laid. So men coming into pickup might have the intention to find a meaningful connection in the beginning, but once you become a part of the pickup community, these Red Pill ideas snowball and get to you. You have other PUA's reinforcing these ideas to you, you have the teachers talking about these ideas, and you have all the videos you watch, etc. Plus the act of pickup itself requires a trial and error approach. You have to approach so many girls to get good. You talk about having a less aggressive and healthy approach to talking to women, but after so many failed attempts and frustrations it can lead to the aggressive approach. And this is an important point I want to make, women are so difficult that men have created an entire fucking cult around women attraction. Essentially women as a collective has indirectly created the act of pickup and the Red Pill cult whether they realize it or not. No not just because women are hot and men are horny, its because women are fucking difficult. Dating or getting women in general is a struggle for most men so they resort to pickup or rape or kidnapping. This same idea can also be used to justify and understand all the other "bad" behaviors in the world. Theft? Well its mainly created by poverty, wanting something quick, and the fact that money doesn't come easy for them.

So you need to understand the bigger picture here. You're basically judging these men for being a piece of shit while there's much bigger problems behind it. The reason I personally got into pickup back then, was because dating was (and is still) hard for me, I've never had a girlfriend. I just had a strong craving for love and intimacy. I was and am just a broken man, its painful not having someone to be there to care for you and love you. To talk to and share your life with.

And yes I do understand you're talking about the aggressive approach and how men need to have a healthy approach to pickup, but just understand that there's much bigger issues at play here. Hypothetically speaking, in order to solve this entire problem you need to fix a whole lot. Its not as simple as just judging them for being aggressive and woohoo everything is magically fixed.

 

33 minutes ago, 7thLetter said:

@Preety_India You didn't tag me but sounds like this is a reply to my previous post.

And that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that by their very own existence and nature, they're indirectly creating a much larger issue. Not that they owe men anything.

Let's use another example and apply this type of thinking to money. With the very existence of money and the fact that money doesn't come easy for most, money indirectly creates all sorts of crime. Scamming, creation of drugs, theft, gang violence, etc. you name it. Not that people deserve to have this money or is entitled to it, its the mere fact that money itself exists.

Is money or women to blame here? No of course not. I'm just saying, with the existence of what people desire, must come the existence of undesirable results. So, to understand this means we must accept all the "evil" of this world because its a part of life and it exists for a good reason.

To be honest this is such a toxic take on it. 

 

 

[7thLetter]

@Preety_India Lol.

You're not seeing how my perspective is actually a bigger picture perspective coming from a SD Tier 2 level. You're looking at it from a Green perspective and creating all these conclusions in your mind of what I'm implying here. "You're having the "enable the abuse and enable the abuser" mentality." "This is toxic." One sided thinking" etc. etc.

Of course you're triggered, you're looking at it different level of understanding.

Sure, we can't weed out social evil with this type of thinking, but we can have an understanding in our minds that we must empathize and accept these people. Society will advance itself on its own over time and weed out these social evils on its own. With the help of all the Green people including you, this will move society forward. To incorporate Yellow or Turquoise thinking into this would not necessarily work.

[kras]

Ive never came across pickup coach who is teaching you to rape women. But maybe @Preety_India is more familiar.

Edited January 19, 2021 by kras

[Preety_India]

 

4 minutes ago, kras said:

Ive never came across pickup coach who is teaching you to rape women. But maybe @Preety_India is more familiar.

The title of the article is 

" Inside the rape trial that reveals the depraved world of pickup artists." 

 

https://nypost.com/2016/09/21/inside-the-rape-trial-that-reveals-the-depraved-world-of-pickup-artists/

 

[Snader]

7 hours ago, mmKay said:

@soos_mite_ah binge watch all of their videos, specifically from james marshall

Then you may narrow down your concept of what practicing pick up and attraction is. 

I intuitively feel that mastering seduction doesn't only make you good with girls, but it changes you as a human being. Going through those steps and living life that way will definitely move you up the spiral. I really resonate with how this guy talks about human development from perspective of dating, sex and relationships.

Why I think that as a man getting good with girls is one of -- if not the best -- way to develop yourself is because that area touches so many other areas of one's life and it opens doors (sometimes forces you through them) to improve yourself in other areas of life too, and it's nicely put into understandable form just like this guy has done with his 6 step model.

This video shows the bigger picture of pick up in my opinion.

Edited January 19, 2021 by Snader

[Preety_India]

12 minutes ago, peqkno said:

now it seems like these “intelligent, spiritual” girls wouldn’t want someone who learned/did pick-up. And me learning it is irreversible. Oh f***.)

The ending was perfect. Put a nice chuckle on my face. 

 

[coca]

@peqkno

When male dating coaches and PUAs tell their audiences that you can't ask women about what they attracts them (i.e. Don't ask a fish how to catch them), it is just for business purposes. Otherwise, female dating coaches would put them out of business.

No. I'm not a dating coach and I don't earn any money coaching people on pickup stuff. But I can tell you from lots of personal experience that a woman will never give a guy good advice for how to attract and sleep with women. Because attraction is deeply counter-intuitive and women themselves are deeply in denial and unconscious of what attracts them and what makes them open their legs.

Women love to tell themselves all sorts of fantasies about what they are attracted to, when in fact they are attracted to the opposite. They will say stuff like, "Just be yourself. Just be a nice guy." and then they end up sleeping with the biggest asshole in the room.

A fish cannot tell you how to catch it because it has not invested any time and has no experience catching itself. The first doesn't actually know what catches it. And even if it did, it would not be in the fish's survival interest to disclose such information.

[kras]

For all the girls who are complaining about pick up. 

Lets imagine that you are a boy who has zero experiances with girls. You see all the cool guys who have their girl friends and have no problem attracting and sleeping with girls. Women have no interest in you and you feel completely isolated from the opposite sex, you are lonely and feel like shit. 

What would you do? What solution you will try to find?