Is Leo Supporting Solipsism or Not?

[BipolarGrowth]

@Tim R Yeah, how I’m thinking of this now considering his response is that I’m in a poker game in which I basically asked the player next to me to show his cards to see if they align with what I think they are from the recent evidence I’ve been shown which I’ve explained to the entire table of players, and he, instead of answering, sits back to see the table of players and I discuss the possibility of the cards in his hand being the cards I’ve assumed them to be. 
 

He could of course show his hand, but that would end the new mind game that’s been created at the table. 

[Javfly33]

Does it really matter?

For the ego this question about solipsism is so important. But notice that you are not the ego.

When you abide as consciousness notice that consciousness don't have all this kind of questions.

Even more, the only way you answer this kind of transcendental questions is with a direct recognition of what's true, again, the mind and the ego will only get you more confused.

So always always the path is to go direct towards truth. Recognize what is true directly in your experience, don't believe all that Leo says and don't listen to the ego to tell you what should be important in your life.

[BipolarGrowth]

5 hours ago, oMarcos said:

@BipolarGrowth I am certain of the impossibility of knowing it. I think my mother is also dreaming herself from the same source I am dreaming myself. And you will never be "there" to confirm that your family still exists, you can only see your direct experience, no escape.

But, have you ever saw people claiming to know who they were in their past lifes? Maybe we have a clue right there.

And once again, Leo never said he has no beliefs, he himself has already said is impossible to not be biased as long as you live.

You need to see solplisism as some sort of idea that is originated by realizing one's nature as the spectator of everything, but you can't really put it into words, solpslisim is a concept on its own.

 

@oMarcos Thinking your mother is dreaming herself from the same source will forever be unprovable unless you recognize that capital Y You is the consciousness that is dreaming lowercase y you. Is this the source you’re speaking of, or are you acknowledging belief in the existence of a source other than “your” consciousness. Your is in quotes because ultimately you don’t have consciousness; consciousness has you. There’s nothing wrong with acknowledging that belief. I’m just trying to understand where you’re going with this. 
 

People claiming past lives have only witnessed or seen evidence for those past lives through their own consciousness. The existence of past lives ultimately is no proof that there is a consciousness other than yours. It’s all viewed from one perspective always - your consciousness. 

Yes, I’ve never seen him flatly say “I don’t have beliefs,” yet he regularly says that his most important insights are not beliefs. Maybe he will admit to have a belief that there’s toilet paper in his bathroom when he isn’t present, but the things that seemingly matter most to him such as Love being the framework (maybe framework isn’t the most fitting word - I can’t think of a better one atm) of the Universe he claims are not beliefs. 
 

I already see it this way. You just put it into words, so why are you claiming it can’t be put into words? Sure, words never do direct consciousness justice, but they can be useful signposts. We’re both likely aware that the map is not the territory, but we are also aware that a map can do a good job pointing out important aspects of a given territory to a limited degree. 
 

To understand more completely what I’m really getting at when I’m talking about solipsism, read this that I wrote:
 

“When you go to sleep at night, you often find yourself in dreams. In these dreams, most people will still have a human body. In waking reality, there is an unsubstantiated claim or story given by people that consciousness is somehow generated by the brain. The experts aren’t so sure, or at least they don’t have any solid evidence. Look up the “hard problem of consciousness” to understand how this is unsubstantiated. In the dream, you typically do not think along the same lines. If you were to lucid dream, you would certainly not think you were the dream body or somehow generated by the brain in your dream head. I say you, but I need to clarify exactly who you are. 

 

You are consciousness. Consciousness is the only constant you can find in all realities. In the dream, you are literally everything perceived in the dream. It’s all generated by your consciousness. We understand fully that everything created in our dreams comes entirely from us and is an extension of us. Surprisingly enough, there’s no solid argument against this being exactly the same case in waking reality. Your brain, body, and mind are all generated by consciousness in the same fashion consciousness generates the entire reality in dreams. Beyond your mind, body, and brain, you as consciousness generate this entire reality. This entire reality IS consciousness and nothing else. It’s the same way in a dream nothing is separate from you as consciousness. You as consciousness are the sole source for everything in the dream. No one thinks everyone in their dreams are conscious, separate entities once they’ve come back to the waking state. It’s the same in this reality. 

 

There’s absolutely no way you can actually be shown something outside of your consciousness. There will never ever be proof that other beings are conscious separately or outside of your consciousness. Even if you merged consciousness with another being in the waking state as a way to somehow prove the existence of another consciousness, guess what it would be? It would be fully engulfed in exactly one thing: you as consciousness or otherwise put your consciousness. You are the source of everything that exists in your consciousness, and your consciousness is the entirety of your universe and always will be. Nothing can ever exist outside of your consciousness. Existence relies completely on perception and consciousness to even be relevant. What is the difference between a fairytale land in a book, the black void people typically conceive of as nothingness or nonexistence, and a reality you imagine exists like heaven? They’re all just imagination. The only thing that’s real is what you can experience in this very moment. As soon as something exits consciousness, it exits existence. There’s no proof for something existing outside of consciousness, and there never will be because the most fundamental building block in any proof is, you guessed it, consciousness. Before using reason or logic or any other conceptual tool to prove something you use precisely one thing first: consciousness. 

 

Even if you and I are both conscious entities, we live in completely different “universes of consciousness.” Precisely, that is to say that one consciousness can never be shown another consciousness to exist without perceiving the other consciousness through the lens of the original consciousness. As soon as one consciousness comes into the other, the secondary consciousness immediately becomes an aspect of the primary consciousness. So if you were to completely merge your consciousness with mine, your consciousness would be held within my consciousness, and it would be the same for you if the process were done from your perspective. This is a clear mechanic of consciousness. We can never know if the person sitting across the lunch table from us is conscious. We can only assume one way or the other. 

 

Anything imagined to be separate from the perspective of the original consciousness will always just be one more aspect of the original consciousness. In this way, we are entirely alone as consciousness. We are not alone as human beings. There are plenty of humans walking around. You can clearly perceive that, but by the very nature of perception, consciousness cannot perceive another consciousness without it immediately becoming another aspect of itself. Consciousness cannot perceive another consciousness as some sort of separate thing. Once the “other” consciousness is viewed, it only exists as long as it is in contact with the primary consciousness - the point of perception, and it is only truly the primary consciousness the entire time. In this way, you can never truly share space with another consciousness. You cannot perceive another consciousness. 

 

Anything you perceive is just you. You are consciousness. Everything is you. Everything is consciousness. It will be this way for eternity. You as consciousness will likely visit innumerable dreamt up worlds that you’ve created. You’ll perceive yourself as some kind of avatar or character as far as we can tell. You’ll at first see all the rest of the characters in your dreamt up creation as separate from you, but in truth those dream characters are just as much you as your primary character is. They’re just characters held within consciousness. One, your primary character who you at first feel to live inside, simply exists in your consciousness more of the time than the others. Ultimately neither the other characters or your perceived primary character is you because you are the consciousness that permeates all aspects of the dream world including its laws of physics, characters, objects, and everything else. You aren’t the characters any more than you are the objects or the laws of motion that govern that reality. You are all aspects of that reality. You are all aspects of all realities. 

 

A reality can only exist within you. Something is only real to you if it is held within your consciousness. No realities exist outside of the one you are experiencing right now. This waking state planet Earth does not exist when you are in a dream. Your wife could tell you that the world still existed while you were asleep, but you have to see how this is exactly the same as if your dream wife told you the dream reality was there while you were asleep. It means nothing because you as consciousness were not there. That seems to be the pattern in what we can verify between both the waking state and dreams.”

@Leo Gura yea or nay, potentially Me/God/Consciousness-generated human being I consider to be my current avatar’s master? 

[Inliytened1]

10 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

. We can never know if the person sitting across the lunch table from us is conscious. We can only assume one way or the other. 

 

Yes, with enough work and years behind you, you can become God or God Awareness and realize that they, as well as the person you think you are, are in fact both being imagined by you, the One - the formless One.  You said it yourself that all is held wthin your consciousness so stop backtracking.  Your IT.  

[LfcCharlie4]

@BipolarGrowth Seems similar but is actually different the deeper you go. Rupert has several videos on this. 

Non-Duality & Solipsism aren't the same. 

 

[Someone here]

8 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

@Someone here ultimately the question is important because I’m curious if my most recent insights align with the insights of the single person, other than my personal avatar, who has influenced my journey of spirituality the most. It’s mostly a personal question if I’m honest. Is it important to you? Only if you’ve had the same solipsistic insights I have or wish to further understand what solipsism has to potentially offer, which I’m sure applies to some others here. 

@BipolarGrowth 

try to notice that there is no difference between solipsism being true or not. 

[Jonty]

@BipolarGrowth This might help you ?

 

[BipolarGrowth]

8 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Yes, with enough work and years behind you, you can become God or God Awareness and realize that they, as well as the person you think you are, are in fact both being imagined by you, the One - the formless One.  You said it yourself that all is held wthin your consciousness so stop backtracking.  Your IT.  

@Inliytened1 This isn’t backtracking, at least not in how I meant it. I didn’t clarify enough immediately in that same sentence, but it was covered in detail in other parts of the writing, mainly near the end. What I meant by that statement is that you can never know if the person sitting across from you has a “separate” consciousness from you. The idea of separate consciousnesses or partitions of consciousness can never be verified as they will always be perceived from the same thing that perceives your human body, ego, etc. Ultimately in the process of perceiving things from their (human) vantage point, if this is indeed possible, this would originate from the same source as you (consciousness) which aligns with everything you’re saying. 

[Scholar]

1 hour ago, BipolarGrowth said:

@Inliytened1 This isn’t backtracking, at least not in how I meant it. I didn’t clarify enough immediately in that same sentence, but it was covered in detail in other parts of the writing, mainly near the end. What I meant by that statement is that you can never know if the person sitting across from you has a “separate” consciousness from you. The idea of separate consciousnesses or partitions of consciousness can never be verified as they will always be perceived from the same thing that perceives your human body, ego, etc. Ultimately in the process of perceiving things from their (human) vantage point, if this is indeed possible, this would originate from the same source as you (consciousness) which aligns with everything you’re saying. 

There is a much deeper problem, and it is the problem of relativity. Imagine your world view is a castle that was being constructed from the moment of birth. You now stand on this castle, thinking that the castle itself is the ground of the earth. From this ground, you can pose questions. Questions that can only make sense on this very castle.

See, you think the only options are "Either the world exist, or solipsism is true.", but this is only so because you have created premises that only make these two options a possibility.

 

Consider that there are framings that would render both solipsism and the opposite of solipsism impossible. Consider that there are frames from which asking this very question is non-sensical, impossible and meaningless. Consider that the only reason why this question is meaningful, is because of the very castle you are standing on. On another castle, this question might not even be possible, yet other questions, which are impossible for you to even begin to ask, are possible on those castles.

 

Consider that the very reason why you can even pose this question is because you have confused an illusion to be reality. What is even a separate consciousness, a partition of consicousness, verification, perception, the world, vantage point, possibility, impossibility, aligning, origination.

You are walking on a castle, not on the ground on which the castle is build. First, you must realize that you are walking on a castle.

 

This is magic, it is not logical. It is not possible. It is not impossible. You are underestimating the potential of infinity. Everything can be understood, nothing can be understood. Both of this must be true and false.

 

You still trust that limitations are real. Everything we will ever tell you will be perfectly sensible non-sense.

Edited January 18, 2021 by Scholar

[Inliytened1]

@BipolarGrowth gotchya yeah but that question - whether consciousness has cut off access to itself to its other finite partitions and is one consciousness experiencing itself from an infinite number of possible vantage points simultaneously, or whether this partition is all there is for you until you take another partition in which case you will, for example, literally be me typing this reply to you.  So it collapses as a duality because it is still you regardless and you will experience everything.. without exception...so whether I'm being both me and you now and it is happening simultaneously or not, doesn't really matter because i AM you.  And you are me.  So the question collapses.  But don't take anything I'm saying as a belief of course 

[Scholar]

Start with the simple things, that are here in your direct experience.

Look at what you label "experience" or "perception". Look how radically different the color red is from the sound of a bird chirping, and how those are radically different from the feeling of warmth, pain, loneliness.

Look at how their are utterly foreign to each other. They are almost impossibly different. Let's say you have 6 sense that are obvious to you. Ask yourself, what is the limitations here? How many "experiences" and "perceptions" that would be as radically different from all those you are experiencing could exist? It is infinite. Infinite. Try to grasps the monumental consequences of this.

Try to grasp that there is no logic, no causation to something like the sound of a bird chirping, or the color red. There will be no answer to this, because reality does not work with answers.

 

In other words, God doesn't have to justify with thoughts, reason and logic why redness exists. He can make redness exist directly, whether possible or not. He can make solipsism exist directly, whether possible or not. He can make non-solipsism exist directly, whether possible or not.

This is happening right now. Just look at these colors, they are as impossible as the entirety of the universe, as all things, all contradiction, paradoxes and causes could be.

 

Realize the impossibility of Redness, and the question of solipsism will be as silly to you as a child asking for the age of Santa Clause.

Edited January 18, 2021 by Scholar

[Vibroverse]

I think he supports solipsism, but not the solipsism of egoic self. 

[Scholar]

The irony here is that, the fact that you can question what is possible and not, what is and what is not, is in it's own right it's own form of impossibility, it's own form of what is and what is not. This is it's own form of limitation, duality, it's own dimension of existence.

 

The only reason why something that Leo or I say could possibly make sense to you is because you share the same limitation. This is what being real means. Being real means to be limitation. It is not that if a lie is shared it becomes reality. It is that reality itself is a lie.

Edited January 18, 2021 by Scholar

[BipolarGrowth]

@Vibroverse I agree. I should’ve made it clear in the initial post that I’m talking about solipsism from the point of consciousness being the self in the definition of “self alone/alone self” rather than the ego being the self instead of waiting until later posts to clarify this. 

[Someone here]

@BipolarGrowth @BipolarGrowth 

try to notice that there is no difference between solipsism being true or not. 

Solipsism just isn't handy.. It  just doesn't "work".. I mean you still have to obey the laws of physics and work your ass off to pay the bills.. There is no excuse for you because you are a solipsist who ?.

Philosophically speaking.. It is neither provable nor disprovable.  

It's just a thought in your head.. So it can't possibly be "the Truth". 

At the end of the day your  experience of life will be exactly the same whether your solipsist or not.... Only with being a solipsist you will feel lonely.. Depressed..and impractical.