Intrusive Murder Thoughts

[Ima Freeman]

Hello everyone,

This is a very serious topic. It's hard for me to talk about this mental phenomenon, because it looks like I'm a lunatic, but I want to resolve it, so I search for help.


Intrusive violent thoughts

As the title says, a big mental disturbance of mine are violent intrusive thoughts. 
This kind of thoughts are unconscious and the most energetic, powerful thoughts that "happen" to me. If they occur, it's like I'm not there, just like dreaming while asleep. Most often, I sense that they happened after they passed.

So, what is the content of this thoughts? Normally they involve being verbally or even physically attacked by other people. Then as a way to protect myself, I push back against these aggressors. This leads oftentimes to me assaulting my opponents, beating them up, stabbing them or even shooting them. In extreme cases I kill the person or persons who mistreated my at first.

The people I harm or kill in this thoughts could be everybody. They often include people who want to patronize me like policemen, my father, mother, politicians I don't like. But if I am frank, they also included people that, in real life made jokes about me or who had a dispute with me, like my sister, my uncle, people who made fun of me in school, people that made fun of me in work, etc.


Trauma from the past

So what in my life could be causing this thoughts? 
As a kid, I was hyperactive, daydreaming all the time and did not really follow the instructions of my parents or teachers. This lead to my parents (mother and especially my stepfather) shouting to me, dragging me around, hitting me and locking me up in my room (rarely). I didn't understand why and developed a deep hate against my stepfather. That's where my hate against authority and paternalism developed. 
This sounds very bad, but they where not mere tyrants. I had a good childhood at the end, my parents bought me lots of toys and we went to holiday every year. But when I step out of line I got sanctioned.

School was hard for me. It was very difficult to concentrate and I was not interested in the topics. My parents took me to several doctors, psychologists, and "healers". I was prescribed ritaline for a while, but it didn't work for me.
In school I was not very popular and "cool" but I wasn't bullied either. I was somewhat in between but not very social too. 

At the years past I retreaded more and more. This was the time, when I first noticed violent thoughts. I had to cope with various mental problems in my youth until today, like depressive phases, severe social anxiety and addictions. I began to experiment with alcohol, weed, speed and other drugs to feel better. This was not a long term strategy, of course. I hardly drink or smoke weed today. At he moment I'm virtually on my own, without a social life. I meet friends maybe every two weeks to a month. Since the corona virus lockdown even less often.


What I do

Do I have a will to act on my thoughts? 
No, I am against violence. 
But could it happen, that in extreme situations I harm people disproportionately?
Maybe, but I don't think it's realistic. When I see a brawl around me, my legs turn to jelly and I'm very anxious. 


Like being restless all my life, I'm being paranoid too. The murder thoughts are nothing but a reaction to my paranoia, that I get mistreated or attacked by other people.
So what do I do to get less paranoid? I'm eating very conscious and healthy and doing sports. I try to keep my body healthy.
I'm very self critical and contemplate about myself. I try to understand myself.

Because of my psychological ailments I went to three psychotherapists in the last six years. 
My current psychotherapist says, that these intrusive thoughts could be because of my previous drug abuse. They made this thoughts worse, but I had them before experimenting with drugs. People around me do not seem to understand what I'm going through.



So, why am I writing this? I want to know if people here have similar problems and have found working strategies to resolve their violent thoughts.
I accepted them already, but they do not resolve. I want my mind to be calm and peaceful, not hateful and murderous.
 

[Tim R]

54 minutes ago, Ima Freeman said:

I accepted them already, but they do not resolve. I want my mind to be calm and peaceful, not hateful and murderous.

You say you've accepted them, and yet you still want to get rid of them. So you haven't accepted them, not really. 

It's not the thoughts that pose the problem, but the way one relates to the thoughts. 

 

To try to get rid of or resolve/dissolve your thoughts will not work, because every attempt to do so will simply direct your attention to the very thing that you're trying to get rid of and thereby create a vicious circle. It's exactly like saying "this medicine will only work if you don't think of a green elephant while you take it". 

So, acceptance is the only way out. But it can be a very difficult thing to accept these thoughts, because your attempt to accept them is done in a spirit of non-acceptance, you see? You have to try to accept that, too. And if that doesn't quite work the way you want, this must be accepted too. 

Then, what might happen is this: In your attempt to accept something that you can't really accept, you might get to a point of complete frustration. And at this point, there is the opportunity to drop the whole thing - and then you have truly accepted and therefore solved the problem.

 

You remind me very much of a good friend of mine and he is in exactly the same situation as you. It's possible to get out of this, don't forget that. 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Tim R

[Ima Freeman]

7 hours ago, neutralempty said:

What drugs did you take in the past?

Are you currently on any psychiatric drugs, like an SSRI?

A whole lot. I did not take drugs on a daily basis (well somtimes I did), but I wanted to try everything. (Meth-)Amphetamine, Cannabis, Alcohol, Benzos, Ketamine, LSD, Shrooms, DMT, Kanna, MDMA, Heroin, etc. Most of them I tried only a couple of times and often within the safer use rules.

I tried 50mg of Sertraline (Zoloft) for roughly six months. It did make me more social, sometimes at least. But in the end I stopped it, because it made me maniac 
 

7 hours ago, neutralempty said:

I had a similar thing, although I didn't imagine murdering people, but I got heated discussions with them in it.

More often then the physical violent thoughts I have these discussion in my mind.
It's like the mind tries to prepare it self for situations, in which it has to justify it self in front of others, isn't it?

 

7 hours ago, neutralempty said:

But imagining this can be a good thing, it can help you overcome bad experiences without living through them. Treat it like a friend who reminds you to pay attention to your psychological shadow and its triggers.

You mean like a confrontation simulation?
It is very helpful. Because of these thoughts I learned a lot about myself and humans in general. But what is to be learned in the end. That humans are animals. That killing is a part of survival? OK. 
What I want is a peaceful mind that isn't paranoid 

[Ima Freeman]

@Tim R Your right. I thought the same while typing it

The  thoughts are part of me. So if I try to fight them I try to fight parts of myself. 

 

7 hours ago, Tim R said:

Then, what might happen is this: In your attempt to accept something that you can't really accept, you might get to a point of complete frustration. And at this point, there is the opportunity to drop the whole thing - and then you have truly accepted and therefore solved the problem.

I understand what you say. But these thoughts are very odd to me. I try to work on myself to become more actualized, therefore less primitive and more at ease. But that seems to be a role i want to play.

The problem lies maybe in the fact, that assault and murder is contemned in society and therefore I feel that I'm bad and evil.



 

[Ima Freeman]

5 minutes ago, neutralempty said:

Yeah, Zoloft will make you a maniac. Have you trief ayahuasca in a therapeutic retreat? I heard it's good for that.

The times I tried DMT i took only very little, because I was to afraid of it.

But maybe I try ayahuasca. The thing is, that I want to use it consciously, as a tool.

Right now my motivation to take drug is to feel good instantly. Like a magic pill.
Therefore I try to fix my emotional state before taking psychedelics. 
 

14 minutes ago, neutralempty said:

You probably don't want to suffer and judge yourself and rather feel loved.

As long as I push people away, there is no way to feel loved.

I feel unaccepted.

[Ima Freeman]

2 minutes ago, neutralempty said:

Psychiatric drugs will not help you fix your emotional state, I am afraid. 

I meant recreational drugs (alcohol, cannabis). They do often work like a magic pill, but only for 1-3 hours.

 

5 minutes ago, neutralempty said:

Sure, there is. Maybe you're fearful of pushing people away? That can make you act in a way that pushes people away?

I accept you

Thank you. It feels good to read that 

Yeah I preemt the possibility of not being accepted by isolating myself. But the consequence of isolation is the same as not being accepted. Fear is the whole problem.

[Javfly33]

Sounds like a typical ocd , no?

 

[Ima Freeman]

1 hour ago, Javfly33 said:

Sounds like a typical ocd , no?

 

I was never diagnosed with OCD. I don't know what it's symptom cluster either 

[Abdelghafar]

Listen @Ima Freeman,

Obviously, you're not alone in this. Other people have problems like the ones you just described.

My advice to you is quite simple and without equivocation:

Let go of the those thoughts and let go of the past. How to let go? Well that is a long and winding road you have to take in order to figure out mechanisms that work for you and apply yourself on them.

But at least, for a start, I would link you these two videos of Leo addressing this situation, but this is not enough, you have to also seek professional help and know that no one is going to get you out of this hole but you, so practice lots of techniques until you find out what works for you and get yourself out of this:

 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Abdelghafar
Word Edit.

[Ima Freeman]

@Abdelghafar Thank you for your advice

I already used the forgiveness exercise on my stepfather. 
I will check out the other exercise too. Atm I'm in the progress of watching all of Leo's videos, soeventually I will watch.
And I'm aware that watching them once isn't enough for them to have a changing effect.

It does not seem possible for me to let go of thoughts that come out of nowhere. How should I let go of things that I do not control?

But I don't want to ignore them either. It is very frustrating to see your familiy members getting killed by yourself in your thoughts over and over again.
I want to be truthful, but it's to hard for me to tell them what's going on in my mind. 

[Tim R]

16 minutes ago, Ima Freeman said:

How should I let go of things that I do not control?

That's it! You can't control them. That's your ticket for being able to let go.

And as I said, acceptance is the key. Because acceptance = letting go

[Preety_India]

Have you been bullied in early childhood? 

[Megan Alecia]

Explore them because they are thoughts from your unconscious. 

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/566609196872339967/

 

[Ima Freeman]

15 hours ago, Tim R said:

That's it! You can't control them. That's your ticket for being able to let go.

And as I said, acceptance is the key. Because acceptance = letting go

Accepting them as part of me should take some pressure of.
But there is still the controversy of my thouhts content.

[Ima Freeman]

9 hours ago, Preety_India said:

Have you been bullied in early childhood? 

Not that I know.

But I was made fun of sometimes, like everyone I guess.

[Ima Freeman]

10 hours ago, Megan Alecia said:

Explore them because they are thoughts from your unconscious. 

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/566609196872339967/

 

Very good video.

I cried a little.

[bejapuskas]

@Ima Freeman  Hey, thanks for bringing this up. Actually so many people have similar thoughts in this forum, I think it is a common theme among spirituals seekers. It is definitely very good that people are opening up and moderators will not be closing similar threads because of "dangerous content" or whatever. It is definitely safe and important at the same time to discuss this. I am just guessing, but do you ever think that you can see what other people think about you? 

39 minutes ago, Ima Freeman said:

Accepting them as part of me should take some pressure of.
But there is still the controversy of my thouhts content.

The controversy indeed exists only in your thoughts, because you are a sensitive person. I guess it is usually connected with understanding death as something serious, taking yourself very seriously as an individual. 

[Ima Freeman]

21 minutes ago, bejapuskas said:

@Ima Freeman  Hey, thanks for bringing this up. Actually so many people have similar thoughts in this forum, I think it is a common theme among spirituals seekers. It is definitely very good that people are opening up and moderators will not be closing similar threads because of "dangerous content" or whatever. It is definitely safe and important at the same time to discuss this. I am just guessing, but do you ever think that you can see what other people think about you? 

It's very important to discuss this. How many people are there in our societies, who are afraid of talking about this? 
Thousands? Hundreds of thousands? Millions? This stuff has to be brought to light. It shouldn't linger in the dark. That could be very dangerous in the long term.

I am very sure, that when I frankly tell the people around me, in person, not as an anonym internet user, about my murderous thoughts, I will get stigmatized as a lunatic by most, even if they tell me that I'm not. 

I don't think the controversy only exists in my thoughts, but in the thoughts of almost all people.

[Nahm]

@Ima Freeman

Peaceful mind is the default, the given, the fundamental actuality, reality as it is. Peaceful mind is never a place or state one can get to, achieve, or create. This is like building a device with your hands designed to allow your hands to be at rest. It could go on forever unfortunately, because it is the wrong direction. Likewise, we could never create enough war to discover peace. War is the effort in the aversion of listening to feeling. Peace is effortless.  

Every thing is actually a thought, thought is an appearance of peace, appearing or arising only ever,  now. The story of a me and past is actually the arising of thoughts, now. The story of a physical self and world is thoughts which only ever arise,  now.

Now = Peace.  

The most horrific movie possible experienced by a viewer fully knowing it is a movie is not really experienced by a ‘viewer’ at all, but by peacefulness ‘itself’, our infinite Being, our source. Only via attachment to thought is there “a viewer” which convinces himself he is a separate physical self in the movie, and there is then the seeming loss of the true nature of Being, or, peaceful mind. Peaceful mind is abundantly available in every moment. The truth indeed sets us free, and honest expression, emptying, is the way. When emptying of emotional misunderstanding arises to be purified out - thought attachment hijacks & suppresses it again, and again, and again, and again.

The intellect knows no bounds, no limit to it’s hijackery, and can only surrender to it’s true nature, the substance it is made of, the only reality of “itself”, Peace, Being. 

There isn’t ‘someone out there’ judging you for anything. These are thoughts which arise only now. Talk to a non-viewer, not someone stuck in a movie of thoughts. Experience that directly for yourself so to speak. A movie about this experience won’t do. Relinquish what has seemed to become a big dark secret of identity.

“Be like melting snow, wash yourself of yourself”.   - Rumi 

[bejapuskas]

@Ima Freeman  You are overlooking that you just publicly opened up about this on this forum and many people accepted you without stigmatizing. Sure, there will be people, usually those who have never experienced these thoughts, who will judge you, I don't know if it is the majority, but like you do not have to talk to the majority, nor is it really possible, you are good to go. What Nahm says is good.