Intrusive Murder Thoughts

[Loving Radiance]

On 17.1.2021 at 0:12 PM, Ima Freeman said:

I want to know if people here have similar problems and have found working strategies to resolve their violent thoughts.

I recognize these kind of thoughts as possible ego boosters. I can attach to them and believe they tell something about myself and feel to better than others by putting them down in my mind, or I can just let them pass like in meditation. They usually don't feel good to me, so sometimes I don't indulge in them.

On 17.1.2021 at 9:06 PM, Ima Freeman said:

The thoughts are part of me. So if I try to fight them I try to fight parts of myself.

I am not joking, how do you know they are part of you?

 

On 17.1.2021 at 1:06 PM, Tim R said:

It's not the thoughts that pose the problem, but the way one relates to the thoughts.

On point!

[Ima Freeman]

On 19.1.2021 at 3:44 PM, Nahm said:

@Ima Freeman

Peaceful mind is the default, the given, the fundamental actuality, reality as it is. Peaceful mind is never a place or state one can get to, achieve, or create. This is like building a device with your hands designed to allow your hands to be at rest. It could go on forever unfortunately, because it is the wrong direction. Likewise, we could never create enough war to discover peace. War is the effort in the aversion of listening to feeling. Peace is effortless.  

Every thing is actually a thought, thought is an appearance of peace, appearing or arising only ever,  now. The story of a me and past is actually the arising of thoughts, now. The story of a physical self and world is thoughts which only ever arise,  now.

Now = Peace.  

The most horrific movie possible experienced by a viewer fully knowing it is a movie is not really experienced by a ‘viewer’ at all, but by peacefulness ‘itself’, our infinite Being, our source. Only via attachment to thought is there “a viewer” which convinces himself he is a separate physical self in the movie, and there is then the seeming loss of the true nature of Being, or, peaceful mind. Peaceful mind is abundantly available in every moment. The truth indeed sets us free, and honest expression, emptying, is the way. When emptying of emotional misunderstanding arises to be purified out - thought attachment hijacks & suppresses it again, and again, and again, and again.

The intellect knows no bounds, no limit to it’s hijackery, and can only surrender to it’s true nature, the substance it is made of, the only reality of “itself”, Peace, Being. 

There isn’t ‘someone out there’ judging you for anything. These are thoughts which arise only now. Talk to a non-viewer, not someone stuck in a movie of thoughts. Experience that directly for yourself so to speak. A movie about this experience won’t do. Relinquish what has seemed to become a big dark secret of identity.

“Be like melting snow, wash yourself of yourself”.   - Rumi 

I do not get that, unfortunately.

But I try to contemplate on it later.

[Nahm]

@Ima Freeman

If there is the willingness and interest to elaborate how, what you don’t get, the liberation (feeling how you really want to be feeling) will follow. 

[Ima Freeman]

23 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

@Ima Freeman  You are overlooking that you just publicly opened up about this on this forum and many people accepted you without stigmatizing. Sure, there will be people, usually those who have never experienced these thoughts, who will judge you, I don't know if it is the majority, but like you do not have to talk to the majority, nor is it really possible, you are good to go. What Nahm says is good.

Publicly as an anonymous internet user, yes

[Ima Freeman]

19 hours ago, Loving Radiance said:

I recognize these kind of thoughts as possible ego boosters. I can attach to them and believe they tell something about myself and feel to better than others by putting them down in my mind, or I can just let them pass like in meditation. They usually don't feel good to me, so sometimes I don't indulge in them.

They are ego boosters, I guess. The contend of my thoughts is usually this: I get verbally or even physically attacked, there is a feeling of threat, there is a feeling of immense rage, I "defend" myself by fighting back resulting most often in the death of the attacker. 

Even if I do not react to them, I feel enraged for some time. So trying to not indulge in them is pointless. They overcome me.
 

19 hours ago, Loving Radiance said:

I am not joking, how do you know they are part of you?

Part of my mind, which belonges to me. I cannot walk away from it. 

 

[Ima Freeman]

10 minutes ago, Ima Freeman said:

They are ego boosters, I guess. The contend of my thoughts is usually this: I get verbally or even physically attacked, there is a feeling of threat, there is a feeling of immense rage, I "defend" myself by fighting back resulting most often in the death of the attacker. 

I would say "survival thoughts" are a better term. I feel threatened, so my mind prepares me for confrontation. 

[Loving Radiance]

8 minutes ago, Ima Freeman said:

Part of my mind, which belonges to me.

Another silly question, is everything in your experience you? If not, how do you differentiate between that which is you and that which is not you?

Quote

I cannot walk away from it.

Have you ever considered to walk away or - in other words - let them pass by?

[Ima Freeman]

4 hours ago, Loving Radiance said:

Another silly question, is everything in your experience you? If not, how do you differentiate between that which is you and that which is not you?

Where does ME begin and where does it end? Good question, not a silly one. I don't know what I fundamentally am.
So saying that my thoughts are part of me was the silly thing.

 

4 hours ago, Loving Radiance said:

Have you ever considered to walk away or - in other words - let them pass by?

I tried it sometimes, but they oftentimes bother my so much that I go back to analyzing them. As I said, it's not only the thoughts that happen, but the feeling of rage too, which has it's inprint on me and stays for some time after having these thoughts. So basically the thoughts are poisoning me. 

That's why I feel an urge to get my psyche fixed.
 

[Loving Radiance]

@Ima Freeman Do you know the meditation technique of letting thoughts pass and coming back to focus on breath, sensation, counting, or mantra...?

[hyruga]

Check out videos on letting go by Leo Gura or Sadhguru.

I watch 100 videos on mind chattering. Overall, i have watched at least 5000 videos on self improvement and I have not full gained control of my mind.

You can attempt to gain more mind control but you need to understand, you can never fully control it (Not unless you are enlightened).

 

Don't believe me? Don't think of a black cat? a black cat? Don't think of a black cat. Don't think of a black cat, a white cat, a black kitten, a catwoman. Can you fully control your mind esp when there are external stimulus? No. 

Can you control your mind in some ways? Absolutely yes.

Edited January 21, 2021 by hyruga

[AtheisticNonduality]

It's just obsession with pain.

[Nahm]

@Ima Freeman

“As a kid, I was hyperactive, daydreaming all the time and did not really follow the instructions of my parents or teachers. This lead to my parents (mother and especially my stepfather) shouting to me, dragging me around, hitting me and locking me up in my room (rarely). I didn't understand why and developed a deep hate.”

I think that section, specifically the bold part, is the root, and that root is fueling the rumination & overthinking, which is the entire content of the rest of the original post. Emotional misunderstanding at an early age can potentially fuel years of rumination and eventual ‘dark thoughts’. 

We can never think perception, and we can never perceive thoughts...but the mind can twist that up in long periods of distress, creating very vivid thoughts. 

The interpretation in bold is that your behaviors led to your parents behaviors towards you. It absolutely did not actually happen that way, and this is important because it is a fundamental misunderstanding of the entire experience of reality and specifically of people & relationships. Reality does not work the way you interpreted it. That is the core belief, or core misinterpretation, and the root of all of the troublesome thoughts. 

Their behaviors are indicative of their life & experience, and are basically emotional misunderstandings / reactions playing out on autopilot. (I’m not excusing or condoning their behavior toward you. It is obviously harmful & violent.) 

They reacted in harm and violence because of where they were at, so to speak, at the time. Most essentially, because of how they thought about themselves. Not, about you. Their bond of love for you was hard for them, because it is such a powerful love, which is in absolute contrast to the way they thought about themselves. 

That misinterpretation does not and will not jive with your heart, with who you really are. When you feel the intense discord between those, you call the experience of the feeling of that discord, “hate”. 

It was not your fault. It was their fault, if anyone is to be blamed. They did not address their own relationship with their heart, with who they really are, and lived asleep in the emotional reactions. 

 

If you grew up in my household and were hyperactive & daydreaming all the time, didn’t like following instruction from others & had genuine distaste for authority, I would high five you, and my wife & I would have called you “our little entrepreneur”. If I was living your parents life, I’d be behaving exactly like them. 

Unless I recognized that living in emotional reaction equals suffering... as emotional reaction is really just another reaction, causation, cause & effect. That makes for the interpretation that I am a ‘thing’ among ‘things’ of the world, without me realizing this is my misinterpretation, of myself. Because who you really are is most definitely not a thing among things, that belief will flat out reek havoc in terms of the relationship with your inner being, or, true nature, and overall emotional well being. In believing yourself to be a ‘thing’, you identify as only a person, believe you were born, and believe in death. The entirety of this would be misinterpretation, misunderstanding, and misidentification...with the root being that original misinterpretation of human behavior and love. 

No one could rightfully expect that you could have known a more accurate interpretation as an innocent child. Nonetheless, the discord with your true nature was felt, because you really are, who you really are, no matter how you interpret. It is why harming, violence, and hate, feel so terrible. Because they do not align with who any of us really are. We all feel this, yet are very reluctant to change interpretations...precisely because...of the emotional reactions.

In labelling the feeling “hate”, believing in causation, and identifying based on misunderstanding, the belief in fear is heightened, acting as more gas on the fire of the rumination. Understanding, specifically self & emotional understanding stands to make all the difference that unfortunately many other avenues did not. 

These behaviors go on because there is widespread self & emotional misunderstanding. The more people inspect hate, the more people realize it was their belief, misunderstanding of themselves, and misinterpretation of reality. It will take patience and understanding but you will understand and interpret in joyful alignment with your source. As misinterpretation becomes understanding, more and more of the true nature surfaces in feeling, bringing about more & more great feeling perspectives, and more & more understanding. You will live a more fulfilling & amazing life than you know, and you will be a force to recon with for all believers of hate. Not that I have a crystal ball or anything, that is just how this place works. You’ve been through hell, but you are still the true nature, still absolute innocence. 

[Ima Freeman]

9 hours ago, Loving Radiance said:

@Ima Freeman Do you know the meditation technique of letting thoughts pass and coming back to focus on breath, sensation, counting, or mantra...?

Yeah, I did one hour meditation sessions daily back in the day. 

But I discontinued my meditation routine. For me it feels like meditation is not effective at this point.

Getting physically healthy, healing childhood trauma and understanding the psyche is more important for me at the moment.

[Ima Freeman]

9 hours ago, hyruga said:

Check out videos on letting go by Leo Gura or Sadhguru.

I watch 100 videos on mind chattering. Overall, i have watched at least 5000 videos on self improvement and I have not full gained control of my mind.

You can attempt to gain more mind control but you need to understand, you can never fully control it (Not unless you are enlightened).

 

Don't believe me? Don't think of a black cat? a black cat? Don't think of a black cat. Don't think of a black cat, a white cat, a black kitten, a catwoman. Can you fully control your mind esp when there are external stimulus? No. 

Can you control your mind in some ways? Absolutely yes.

Agree

In what ways one can control the mind is the question.

[Ima Freeman]

@Nahm
I will learn more about emotions and the true Self 

 

[bejapuskas]

@Ima Freeman  Don't learn more, you already know what you want x)

[caveman]

@Ima Freeman Similar path - step-dad issues, abuse, drugs, rebellion, and so on. The key understandings/tools for me were:

- these negative thoughts are the defense mechanism of a hurt child, who at some point could only count on his mere instincts, like a cub in a jungle. So although now they seem evil because they are targeted at everyone, they were actually your baby roars. The only "problem" is in the fact that our culture does not nourish in any way emotional intelligence, so we later learn to repress these instincts to be "good functioning adults" instead of understanding it. So you may say why do I have these intense challenges? Well first everyone experiences them to a certain degree, and second, like someone mentioned before, the way family and community interpreted these (interpretations one has to adopt to survive) became the only constriction that forces one to suffocate them. And drugs only work for so long...

- shame and guilt over having these thoughts are just as much as a part of the problem as the thoughts themselves. These need to be investigated, felt and observed first/simultaneously

- personally, of various techniques tried over the years, I feel the most effective for me was the Letting Go/Sedona method (of which Leo posted a video if i remember correctly). Understanding the ego and personal behavior patterns kind of comes naturally if one focuses on releasing pent up emotion, so no reason to self loathe oneself for not seeing the big picture immediately

- making sure diet/sleep/exercising patterns are in place, they could be half the problem

- psychedelics can be effective at cracking through the construct and i jumped into every retreat/experience i could at a certain point. What i learned is that i would strongly suggest one has had a meditation practice or grounding tool in place (such as sedona method) otherwise the experience can get a bit overwhelming, especially with Ayahuasca. Not saying that in the midst of the trip one always has the clarity to use these tools, but at least the subconscious may have a vague idea where to point one's attention to. Mild doses of mushrooms, maybe LSD, could be a more gentle start.

- telling myself that "i am doing great, the best i can, that i am ok, etc." or compassionate/positive thinking does not really work for me. It happened spontaneously when I started feeling and releasing the pain masked by my delusions (both of grandeur as well as of victim perspective)

- when we don't say what we know is true, or do what we know is right, or lie to ourselves in any way, I personally experience intense dark moods

You can do it, it just takes time, dedication and a bit of sacrifice (i. e. cutting out all that is useless).

And it happens in wAaAavvvveeEEES.

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by caveman
repetition

[Nahm]

@caveman

Beautiful. Just beautiful. ?

[NatureB]

I have had similar thoughts in the past. Actually, your post reminds me of this and I can see how far I have come.

I remember one time I was on a date with a really fit, short, cute girl my age. We got food and then stopped by my house to get my guitar on our way to this nature area.

The violent thought that I had surprised me. We were sitting near this river right next to the water, it was late at night so probably nobody was there save us, and we were enclosed in some bushy area. An image of me beating and drowning her crossed my mind. It was accompanied by an intense flicker of rage. This was about a year and some change ago, and happened regularly for a while.

Looking back, I've overcome these type of thoughts, and my advice to you would be to fully live through each fantasy, fully feel the feelings, and don't stop until the associated emotions (anger, grief, shame, pride, etc.) are relieved. No shame in having some violent thoughts, just work through them and don't suppress/repress them. That way they don't get worse and take over.

And get a therapist who can do some emdr with you.

[caveman]

On 1/21/2021 at 7:19 PM, Nahm said:

@caveman

Beautiful. Just beautiful. ?